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Newbie Intolerant...

Old 09-02-19, 01:50 PM
  #1  
randyjawa 
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Newbie Intolerant...

I built my website to help others avoid spending too much money, time and effort when street restoring a vintage bicycle. Bike Forums, particularly the Classic and Vintage forum, should also, and is, helpful to others, with one important exception - BF is not newbie friendly. Let me explain...

Many people, no everyone, come here, for the first time, seeking information regarding this bike or that bike that they want to sell or just bought. We, the notnewbies, politely insist on photos, and rightfully so, to assist with appraisals and/or identifications.

Without ten posts, the person seeking information is, well, not getting much for a while. Ten posts, and I understand the need for scam prevention, is not newbie friendly. So, does anyone have any ideas that might help find a way for the new comers to share pics faster, facilitating their needs and helping us to do the same thing?

My thought was, when a newbie attempts to post a picture, he or she can be linked to a page that will offer the opportunity to get "fully active" quickly. I really don't know much about making websites, and new information technology, but I do know a pain in the butt, when I encounter one. My question, or intent, is to ask other members if they might have an idea to make the newbie firewall go away?

Sorry, this is one thing that I do not have a picture for:-(
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Old 09-02-19, 02:05 PM
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I like the rule.... because it basically stops the people here that just come for ... what do I have and how much is it worth?
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Old 09-02-19, 02:14 PM
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5 posts per day, for a total of 10 posts in two days gets you there. So, a newbie simply has to be patient for two whole days, then they can post pics and get some feedback on their new acquisition.

I don't agree that this constitutes being newbie intolerant/unfriendly. Geez, who can't wait for two days? If they cant, well...who needs 'em? YMMV.

DD
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Old 09-02-19, 02:19 PM
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Randy, I appreciate the thought bit agree with what they said...
Ben

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Old 09-02-19, 02:28 PM
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There needs to be some control over spam, so the rule is necessary, despite creating a minor impediment for newbies. In the majority of the recent threads by newbies seeking help, most responses are friendly and encouraging and most of the OPs do try for 10 useful posts. Also, if the newbie has a pic accessible to the web, another user can and usually does link to it for the rest of us.

Also, I believe that new users can upload their pictures to the Gallery before they satisfy the 10 post requirement. True? If so, then there is no real issue, right?

Some of the other forum sites I belong to have much more onerous rules for new visitors.

Anyhow, thanks for posting this concern. We all need to be welcoming to new users.
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Old 09-02-19, 02:33 PM
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Don't encourage opportunists - most of whom will wind up getting move to the Appraisals forum once they tip their hat as to why they're really here - an easier path to a free assessment of their bike.

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Old 09-02-19, 02:40 PM
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I don't altogether disagree with having some guardrails around new members.

sometimes they don't know what they don't know and can't formulate a question with enough solid information (or pics) to help us even take a wild guess at what might be wrong.

EX: "I just got this bike off CL, it doesn't shift too good, and the back tire is flat. It says Suntour."

It could be argued however that the 10 post threshold for posting pics could just contribute to, as opposed to attenuate, nuisance posts.

In today's world, anybody who can't put a pic into google, flickr or even the hated Photobucket - probably needs more help than we can give here

just sayin

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Old 09-02-19, 02:46 PM
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The 10 posts rule has always made me chuckle. I dont spend time on many other forums...a couple other cycling forums from time to time and a college sports forum is all.
None have this delayed use requirement.

If something is spam, then shut it down. If someone is misusing the forums, then shut em down.
It's quite simple. The 10 posts requirement doesnt keep spammers and trolls away, so why have it?


But I dont know how the sausage is made. Perhaps the mods are keeping 95% of spammers and socks away due to their newbies policies.
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Old 09-02-19, 02:53 PM
  #9  
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Most of the mods are volunteers, so I don't mind the rule.
I followed it, and if it makes the mods' job easier, OK by me. We do need the mods.

I did enjoy when photo posting could be "right from your computer,"
but having to have the photo in some url does keep me from posting too many.

Sort of.
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Old 09-02-19, 02:54 PM
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I don't submit images, but I think a solution is to place them in the gallery section, that seems to be a recently observed workaround, then mention or link to that.
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Old 09-02-19, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
But I dont know how the sausage is made. Perhaps the mods are keeping 95% of spammers and socks away due to their newbies policies.
You guys have no idea. It is more like 99.99%. We used to get hammered by spam bot computers with hundreds, yes hundreds, of automated spams. Most of you never saw it because we have always been quite diligent in removing it. The 10 post rule has made spam much easier to deal with. We still get it, but are able to cut most of it off before you see it. I don't see these rules changing anytime in the future.

Please understand that the moderator and admin staff are unpaid volunteers with real jobs.
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Old 09-02-19, 02:58 PM
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I don't think the forum used to have a limit to upload photos in the first few posts.

I think the photo limit came in with the conversion to: https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin .

It should be easy enough to make an exception for the https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin links as being "OK".

Many newbies inadvertently upload photos to their Album (without really even knowing it).

However, that means that Savvy users can find them.

Perhaps there is a shortcut, but the method I've found...

My own Gallery Page:
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/392454

@randyjawa, OP's Profile Page:
https://www.bikeforums.net/members/randyjawa-84826.html

From that link, I recover @randyjawa's user ID: 84826 from the profile address.

Merge that with my gallery link:
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/84826

And, I get @randyjawa's album/gallery page.

One point is that that is a pretty convoluted way to get to the gallery page. Why isn't there a quick link?


Still, photos are a pretty key part of several subforums including Appraisals and Mechanics.

Personally I find it annoying spending time uploading links for another person because the system is poorly designed.
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Old 09-02-19, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
You guys have no idea. It is more like 99.99%. We used to get hammered by spam bot computers with hundreds, yes hundreds, of automated spams. Most of you never saw it because we have always been quite diligent in removing it. The 10 post rule has made spam much easier to deal with. We still get it, but are able to cut most of it off before you see it. I don't see these rules changing anytime in the future.

Please understand that the moderator and admin staff are unpaid volunteers with real jobs.
"We the willing, doing the impossible for the often ungrateful, asking very little in return..........".

Huge Thanx to the powers that be allowing us to drill down, futz around till we and all others are blue in the face getting to the bottom of our minutia fueled obsession ad nauseam.

All hail the Keymasters, may they forever keep us safe.

And yes I sympathize with the newbie frustration, but the rite of passage weeds out many non true believers and I am fundamentally good with that.

Again, Huge Thanx.

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Old 09-02-19, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
You guys have no idea. It is more like 99.99%. We used to get hammered by spam bot computers with hundreds, yes hundreds, of automated spams. Most of you never saw it because we have always been quite diligent in removing it. The 10 post rule has made spam much easier to deal with. We still get it, but are able to cut most of it off before you see it. I don't see these rules changing anytime in the future.

Please understand that the moderator and admin staff are unpaid volunteers with real jobs.
With all respect towards Randy, and others that do not like the 10 post rule, cb400bill hit the nail on the head. I'm not a moderator here, don't want that job either, I'm not up to the work load. But I have been the senior moderator at a dirt bike website several years ago, the spam is just the beginning of the headaches but, with the bots it just gets overwhelming to manage.

One thing positive I have seen in the C&V Forum is how a fully vested member will pick up a link that a newbie wanted to post, and will put the image up through their own privileges here. I try to say welcome to most new folks here, and if they have expressed frustrations about the rule, explain the reason for having it in place. It can at least mollify them until they have the required number of posts to put images in place.

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Old 09-02-19, 04:22 PM
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As the founder and leading administrator on a small forum meant for dedicated history/archaeological studies, I can tell you it's a good rule. I once had a new member pass muster and immediately start spamming dozens of threads with photographs featuring child pornography.

Another administrator in his haste began deleting all of the threads immediately (and I cannot blame him) instead of trying to delete the individual posts. As we are on a free server and have little ability to control the inner workings of our forum, these threads were all lost to us despite an attempt to retrieve them from the host site.

Such things suck, and happen rarely, but they do happen. The 10 post rule is a pretty simple and effective way to prevent it.

-Gregory
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Old 09-02-19, 04:36 PM
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Newbie intolerant? I don't know about that.

Ten posts seems like a really small price to pay for getting vetted. As has been pointed out, pics often go to a gallery and other members routinely do the pic assist thing. Overall, it's a pretty welcoming place.

You kind of have to want to hang around a web forum, and not just seek one time info on a bike, to be here. Not a lot of people care to do that. What would the purpose of taking the safety screen down be? I don't think there's a huge population of potential posters dying to get in here. There are, on the other hand, loads of bots and spammers as stated by our own Mod.

If ten posts is too hard, then you probably don't want to hang here all that much.
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Old 09-02-19, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Most of the mods are volunteers, so I don't mind the rule.
...I did enjoy when photo posting could be "right from your computer,"


Sort of.
The rule is fine imo. Robbie, you can upload from your computer by opening the manage attachments dialogue.
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Old 09-02-19, 04:53 PM
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I'm a complete newbie and I want to identify a bike I just purchased. Without that info it's hard for me to get parts and refurbish the bike properly. It's a shame I can't post images and get a little help.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wiggles_world View Post
I'm a complete newbie and I want to identify a bike I just purchased. Without that info it's hard for me to get parts and refurbish the bike properly. It's a shame I can't post images and get a little help.
You can and we are glad to help, the depth of knowledge freely given here is unmatched.

That being said, Welcome aboard, glad you found us, go around, say "Hi" and or comment on any posts that interest you. Very little digging will likely get you started at least on something related.

If you give us whatever info you have, by the time you get 10 posts we will probably have you well on your way.

Here's a newbie thread from earlier, we've already got it mostly sorted.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-original.html
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Old 09-02-19, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wiggles_world View Post
I'm a complete newbie and I want to identify a bike I just purchased. Without that info it's hard for me to get parts and refurbish the bike properly. It's a shame I can't post images and get a little help.
You can do that in two days. Find some topics that interest you anywhere on this rather spacious forum and make five posts per day (you already have one), and you'll be able to attach the photos directly to your posts.

From a slightly different angle than approached above, if it's worth our time to help you, then it should be worth your time to pass through these rather modest requirements.

-Gregory
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Old 09-02-19, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wiggles_world View Post
I'm a complete newbie and I want to identify a bike I just purchased. Without that info it's hard for me to get parts and refurbish the bike properly. It's a shame I can't post images and get a little help.
A little help is easy. Email me at fboatsb@gmail.com I'll see what I can do
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Old 09-02-19, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wiggles_world View Post
I'm a complete newbie and I want to identify a bike I just purchased. Without that info it's hard for me to get parts and refurbish the bike properly. It's a shame I can't post images and get a little help.
While it is a great place to do such a thing, and most members will readily assist in these situations, it isn't the sole purpose of the forum. If that is the only reason one cares to use it, then a ten post wait is more than fair.

Otherwise, say hello. Add to a conversation. Interact with the other people.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wiggles_world View Post
I'm a complete newbie and I want to identify a bike I just purchased. Without that info it's hard for me to get parts and refurbish the bike properly. It's a shame I can't post images and get a little help.
You can also plug your question into google and related threads here will come up.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:22 PM
  #24  
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The user base here is getting older and the site needs more new users to keep the flames so to speak. If a new user stops in and can get their information in 1 post then they may be on their way shortly thereafter. If 10 posts over two days means there is some effort put into seeing other threads and sparks an interest in being a longterm user then it is doubly useful as a spam prevention and user collector mechanism.

That being said it is sometimes annoying to read the same thing over and over: "I am trying to attach photos and I can't" "you need 10 posts".
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Old 09-02-19, 05:27 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Don't encourage opportunists - most of whom will wind up getting move to the Appraisals forum once they tip their hat as to why they're really here - an easier path to a free assessment of their bike.

-Kurt
Asking what your bike is worth is not a crime in itself. Even if that is all they want, if they are served then our mission is met. There is no rule that says you must grow old and die here. Our forums serve the needs of all.
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