pipeline

I bought this for the shimano 600 arabesque group set. I thought I might have scored a decent frame too, when I saw the forged drop outs, nice lugs and fully chromed forks and rear triangle. But when I pulled it apart, the frame is made of pipe! What have I got here? Is that a standard 1980s mid level set up or is it cheap pipes dressed up to trick the customer into paying too much?

Any Ideas? I’m posting from Australia so it could have been a local brand built up from imported parts.

Frame
serial number on left seat post - SOK5515
BB width - 68mm
rear drop space - 125mm
Front drop spacing - 100mm

Pipe lengths
seat - 56cm
top - 56cm
head - 12.5cm
chainstay - 45cm

Seat post
SR LAPRADE diameter - 26.2mm

Shimano Date codes
BB - EC
cranks - EA
chain ring - EE
brake lever - EB
(rear drop outs - marked Shimano SF is this a date code?)

Forks
drop outs - TANGE TF
steerer - TANGE OF

Wheels
Rims - ARAYA 27x1/4 w/o HP. JAPAN
Hubs – Shimano, 5 speed uniglide on rear
Spokes – Double butted 4 cross pattern
Rear wheel is not dished but has spacers on left side.

wrk101

Arabesque came on a lot of low end bikes. Even Sears sold a bike with it.

repechage

Not too surprising, a few brands emphasized components instead of the frame, many customers would appreciate better parts instead of better tubing.

RobbieTunes

All steel bikes are made of pipe. Depends which pipe.

The question is, why not?

OldsCOOL

Ummmmm, it's called "tubing".

RobbieTunes

I gots yer tubing. Right heah.

Steamer

I am not sure I understand the OP's point. Is the fact that the seat and down tubes aren't mitered on their ends inside the BB shell the reason for the disparagement? how much does the frame weigh? that will clue you into how pipe-like the frame tubing is.

Thumpic

Maybe someone "upgraded" a cheap frame. It may have been sentimental to them; their first bike or something. There are countless threads about folks wanting to restore and improve entry level (and worse) bicycles.

Wilfred Laurier

maybe because the frame is so heavy while most modern steel is light

looks like a nice frame
made much nicer than the cheap ten speeds i have had

seedsbelize 

Maybe he's trolling

Lascauxcaveman 

I know exactly what he's talking about (or should be) since I am the proud owner of a 1979ish Ross Grand Tour Professional, a heavy, sloppily welded (at least partly, there are places where it was definitely spot welded, other places which look more brazed) poorly painted, plastic-stickered hunk o' junk all very prettily bedecked with 600 Arabesque components; even the early Hi-Flange hubs. But not the seat post, because 25mm Hi-Ten seat tube. Also the stem is made to fit an odd hi-ten tubing size.

I should do a photo essay on this one, as it's really a bit of an anomaly, compared to what you usually see with state-of-the-art Japanese componentry.

Actually, pics of the OPs frame looks like a lot nicer build than mine. "OOOH, forged dropouts... ain't we fancy, luv? Stamped not good enough for you?"

pipeline

Thanks guys.I'm certainly no expert, just beginning to play around with older bikes and wanting to learn.

I say "pipe" not tubing because there are obvious seams visible in the seat tube and head tube. Am I right in thinking that "pipes" and "tubes" are made by completely different processes and pipes are always heavier for the same strength or weaker for the same weight? I also thought the fatter the seat post, thinner the seat tube wall, the better the tubing. Does that mean the 26.2mm seat post goes with a better grade of pipe? Are there different grades of pipe like there are different grades of tubing?

I guess I'm asking about the manufacturing processes and where this bike would have been placed in the market at the time?

I'm guessing it was made in a fairly large factory with good process and quality control but using lower grade tubing for cost. The pipes look like the have been worked with some sort of press to fit them in the bottom bracket lug and also at the bottom of the head tube. Then brazed in an oven maybe? I was 13 in 1980 and had a TOYOSHA 10 speed with a sticker that said it was made by the Toyota Auto Body co. How many plants would have been making bicycle frames in Japan at the time and how many different brands would they end up wearing? The forks are stamped TANGE so I guess the frame was made in a different plant.

Who would have been the original owner? An amateur club racer? A budget conscious tourer? A teenager with generous parents?

I suppose I want to know if this is a "Nice Bike" but I guess I'll find out when I clean it up rebuild it and try riding it.

seypat

The fork/steerer has some letters/numbers stamped on it. That might help with identification.

kunsunoke 

The lugs, joinery, drop-outs, etc. don't look bad. Appears to be late-70s/early-80s MIJ construction; probably machine brazed/lugged.

Tange did make some pretty good seamed/double-butted Chrome-Molybdenum steel tubing in those days (ex. Infinity). Ishiwata has some good seamed Cr-Mo as well. Might be hi-ten steel, often referred to as "Gaspipe" (...not that there's anything WRONG with that...). The weight of the frame and fork should tell you something about what it was made from.

Do you plan to strip and media-blast, or are you just going to go with the natural patina?

clubman 

Damn fine single speed conversion candidate. I too would like to know the weight of frame and fork. It looks like an early Fuji low end offering.

markk900

So its not a Colnago - it still looks pretty decent to me. You'd have to judge it after building it back up and riding it, but it doesn't appear low end - more like mid-tier.

Hope you have a large tub of elbow grease though....lots of muscle needed to clean it up!

jefft72

I have a 1981ish Ross Grand Tour Professional that I picked up off of CL specifically for the Arabesque group set. However, after cleaning the bike up and making it ready to ride I do like it. I came from a mountain bike and as such don't know what I don't know, but it's a couple pounds lighter than my MTB. It's no beauty queen, but it rides well enough.

OP, build the bike and give it a whirl!

Tessou

Still looks better than the comparable low end bikes you can take off the racks today.

Bill Kapaun

Tubing is measured by OD, PERIOD. A 1" tube is 1" diameter.
Pipe is measured by a somewhat more obscure sizing standard, with varying wall thickness, such as schedule 40, schedule 80 etc. and sizes that don't exactly match the actual size. I think that way back when, it was "supposed" to be a nominal ID.

Pipe or tubing can be seamless or seamed.
Back in my Boilermaker days, I used both types of tubing.

pipeline

Frame is 2500g, 5.5lb. Fork is 600g, 1.75lb.

I like the idea of Tange or Ishiwata seamed/double-butted Chrome-Molybdenum steel tubing. That's definitely what I'm going to tell people it is!

As you can see it's all in pretty poor condition. It think the original finish might have been orange painted over the chrome then the bad bright yellow was a later home job. I'm probably going to have it blasted and base coated then get my daughter to paint it as an art project and finish it up with the arabesque group.

Should I put the small parts in the dishwasher? Should I tell my wife?

I'm not sure about this one braze on cable stop which is pretty rusted but feels solid. Will it survive blasting? I don't have the welding skills to fix it first.

repechage

duct tape it off and go at that area by hand.

kunsunoke 

Should hold up to soda blasting. Not sure about sand or media blasting, though. If it dies, you can always grind it down and use one of these:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chai...en-US:official

pipeline

Thanks for all that good advice, the clamp on cable stop in particular.

I also got PMd a link to an old thread on 1980s road bikes https://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/vi...p?f=23&t=33573 but I'm too much of a newbie to PM back to say thank you. Follow that thread long enough and you'l find this link 1986 Tange catalog4 to a tubing guide (I guess the stuff not described as "seamless" has seams?) and this Frame & Tubing Rigidity highly detailed piece by Crispin Miller.

WNG

I don't think that frame is a low end model, given the workmanship and dropouts. 26.2mm is usually straight gauge tubing of 4130 Cro-moly. It can still be Hi tensile 1020, but your weights have me suspect it to be cro-moly steel. Comparing it to the weight of my all cro-moly TIGed hybrid frameset of similar size and also 26.2mm seat post.
Probably Tange seamed tubing. The Japanese made seamed tubesets so well, it rode and was as strong as seamless versions.
Give that thing an oxalic acid bath, and restore it.
I think it's really cool that you have a rare high flanged version of the early freehub.

Mr IGH

At that weight, I doubt it's seamed. What looks to be a seam is probably just a artifact from the when the tubing was formed.