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Why I like "crazyguyonabike"

Old 05-06-16, 05:09 AM
  #76  
saddlesores
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Originally Posted by str View Post
donate or not, who wants to see ...
what's the problem?
their photos are as nice as the ones in your little online album.

guess you just can't appreciate art.
you don't like 'em? stop looking.
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Old 05-06-16, 05:20 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by str View Post
donate or not, who wants to see private family albums like this one...
Perhaps their family and any folks who may want a preview of what to expect on a planned trip to Mallorca? Yes, just snapshots like mine. Not art photography like yours.

Originally Posted by str View Post
I found "Mallorca 2016" story, great island...is it my browser what does not show more pictures, or is it right that I have to click 5 pages to see aprox 8 pictures?
On the above post you said you didn't like to see just one photo per page using Mallorca as an example. That link I provided as just a quick example of a journal of Mallorca with multiple photos per page, not suggested as a "best of" Mallorca. If you want more edited down, artsy pictures without sifting through text just use the link suggested twice above.
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Old 05-06-16, 05:24 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
what's the problem?
their photos are as nice as the ones in your little online album.

guess you just can't appreciate art.
you don't like 'em? stop looking.
problems? no problems at all just commenting what I see.

P.S. I am also not interested to see what other people eat.

yes, I will stop ))
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Old 05-06-16, 12:15 PM
  #79  
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I believe we are comparing plums and apricots. My expectations of the photos found in most journals is a documentation of the journey. The photos are often posted after a long day on the bike, by people who really don't want to spend a lot of time posting artwork. It is one thing to post a photo straight from the camera (plums), and posting photos on a website after spending a lot of time post-processing (apricots) to come up with a more visually pleasing photo. Producing a pleasing picture and doing it in the field are not mutually exclusive, but is a lot more challenging.

I'll take the photos that tells me the story, rather than artwork that is pretty, but doesn't say anything.

str, Your last photo (plum), post #110, in the "Show us your tent", thread is nothing like the photos you posted on the touring picture thread. IMO it is within the range of the type of photos found in many of the CGOAB journals. BTW you do post some very visually pleasing photos (apricots)

Last edited by Doug64; 05-06-16 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 05-06-16, 01:07 PM
  #80  
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I never said my photography is special, if you think its (plum) or triple (plum) thats fine, thats your opinion, in the moment we go public with text or pictures we have to live with the reactions of other people. if we don't like to hear other peoples thoughts, better leave the stuff inside the family circle, they love it all. so feel free to (plum) whatever you feel like ;)
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Old 05-06-16, 01:15 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by str View Post
P.S. I am also not interested to see what other people eat.
I'm with you on that. After all, that's what Facebook was invented for.
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Old 05-06-16, 01:59 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by str View Post
problems? no problems at all just commenting what I see.

P.S. I am also not interested to see what other people eat.

yes, I will stop ))
You have commented a couple of times that finding good pics out of 2 million is hard, and that crazyguyonabike needs a "hardcore photo edit" due to the excessive amount of content.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how community websites work. If you start imposing some arbitrary standard for what's acceptable, in terms of quality, artistic merit or whatever, then you would find that the community would very quickly evaporate. You'd have an empty website. Not one that just has the "good" content, one that has NO content at all, because everybody would leave. Imagine if bikeforums started moderating your posts so that only the "good" and "worthy" ones were allowed to stand. Would people stay here? I doubt it. They would go somewhere else, and the thing about the internet is, there will always be somewhere else to go. So you wouldn't be left with the "good" posters here, because they would have left as well - to go where everybody else is now. This is what kills community websites. Ask Digg.

Likewise, if I started heavily editing journals and telling authors what's acceptable and how many pics they can upload and how much text they have to write, and how it all has to be constructed from a grammar and spelling standpoint, or style guidelines, or whatever, then I'm sure the usage of the site would plummet. People would say "screw this, I don't feel like I'm free to write what I want, I don't have to take this". Nobody likes being micromanaged, nobody like having someone breathing down their neck and scrutinizing every pic and every word.

There is a wide variety of styles out there. It's a bell curve, on the ends you'll get the truly atrocious and the truly brilliant, and in the middle there will be the unwashed masses with their "mediocre". Photo diaries that maybe nobody wants to read beyond their own family. Dull writing that talks about where they went and what they ate. Yes, it's there, and it's part of the mosaic, and it's necessary in order to have the occasional gem show up. People want to post at crazyguyonabike because it's where everybody else is (ok, I know not everybody, but you know what I mean). People go there to post their journals because they know it'll be read by a lot of people who are interested in bicycle tour journals. It's a virtuous circle - people go there because that's where the journals are, and they post more journals, which feeds the cycle. Sure, they aren't all masterpieces, but the critical mass of people is necessary to keep the reactor ticking along. If we started culling the herd with good intentions, say get rid of the "boring" journals or the ones that don't have very good pics, then that would start a grand exodus that would eventually spell the end of the website.

So, that's why I don't try to legislate style and quality at crazyguyonabike. Very early on, I realized that beyond some really basic lines in the sand (spam, abuse, trolls etc), the range of writing styles is beyond my ability to put any boundaries on. Not to mention the fact that people have different tastes - my idea of what constitutes a "good" journal isn't universal by any means.

This is why I implemented the Ratings system, which I have posted links to earlier in this discussion. This is a good way for the community to point up whatever they feel is "good", with a set of tags that are predefined by me - interesting, insightful, funny, great read, great pic, etc. Sure it's restrictive, but I decided that sometimes having a restricted set of choices is good, because it makes the ratings very quick and easy to use. You don't have to type anything, just click on the menu, and done. Also, no confusion due to mispellings or user-defined synonyms etc. It works pretty well for raising up content that the community has collectively decided is "worthy". But even so, that doesn't mean we have to do away with the non-great stuff. It's all there, because YOU NEED IT ALL. People like being able to post a journal without hindrance or judgment on my part. It's a critical part of the process that users can self-publish, without having to submit it to me for consideration. Very subtle, but very important.

Finally, I am struck by how much you are posting in this discussion about crazyguyonabike. Either you are being disingenuous about not caring, or else maybe you have some other axe to grind? All this winking and shrugging and claiming to be just innocently commenting on what you see, seems like you are certainly putting a lot of effort into it. What is it, couple of dozen posts now on that other thread and this one? And all of them negative in a dreary sort of way. That starts to smack of an agenda, or some kind of trolling instinct on your part. If you're just having a dig and trying to get a rise out of me, then whatever. But if you really are posting in good faith, then think for a minute how it would look if I were not interested in something like, say, knitting, and went over to a discussion on that and kept posting about how I wasn't interested in looking at people's posts on cross-hatch (or whatever they talk about - I wouldn't know). How weird would that be? If I'm not interested in knitting, then why am I even in that discussion? And if you're not interested in crazyguyonabike, then why do you keep coming here? I mean, you followed it over from the previous "show me your pics" discussion. This one was even titled "Why I like crazyguyonabike". So why all the negativity? Are you somehow threatened by the fact that so many people use my site, and like it? You don't have to look at it, but you also don't have to try to convince everybody that it's not worthwhile just because you found a couple of journals that weren't interesting to you personally. Those journals will be interesting to someone, no doubt, even if it's just the author or their Mom. And that's ok. Try looking beyond the end of your own nose, and realize that just because YOU are not interested, doesn't mean that it's not a necessary part of the mosaic. Every piece counts, every journal is a part of the whole. And you wouldn't even have the whole if you didn't have those journals that are just mediocre, or boring (perhaps to you, but maybe not to others) etc. It's not just about you.

Neil
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Old 05-06-16, 02:06 PM
  #83  
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"""So why all the negativity?"""

like I said before, if you expose yourself in public it maybe happens from time to time that not everybody thinks what you do is fantastic. you should be happy that you have (see this thread) so many people who love your place. a single guy what does not like your place should not bother you. negativity, no, just a overloaded place with average content. no need to change anything.


"""
Finally, I am struck by how much you are posting in this discussion about crazyguyonabike."""

great, you should also be struck by all the others not being "negativ".

I would see it positive, even if I don't like what people are saying, it helps to see, and get better, change things to better, not get stuck in the old way we are used to.


Last edited by str; 05-06-16 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 05-06-16, 02:21 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by str View Post
"""So why all the negativity?"""

like I said before, if you expose yourself in public it maybe happens from time to time that not everybody thinks what you do is fantastic. you should be happy that you have (see this thread) so many people who love your place. a single guy what does not like your place should not bother you. negativity, no, just a overloaded place with average content. no need to change anything.
Well, again - if you're not interested, then why do you keep posting about it, over and over? At this point it really starts to look like you have an axe to grind... which kind of belies all those "I'm just innocently commenting on what I see, wink, smiley etc" disclaimers. What you are doing is not so innocent, it's more like some sort of crusade. And what's your point? That crazyguyonabike shouldn't exist? That people shouldn't post journals there? Who are you to tell them that? A lot of people like the website. It gets over 100,000 page requests every day. Maybe I'm doing something right here? And in any case, it's nothing to do with you if those journals exist, and no skin off your nose. Just don't read them. I don't read your website, but I don't feel a need to go on and on about it.

What would make you happy? If I started deleting journals and moderating content? I already explained why that doesn't work.

I took the trouble to deconstruct your position regarding community websites, and you seem to have completely ignored all that in favor of just making the same statement that you already posted multiple times. So I guess you have nothing new to say, but want to keep saying it over and over... ok, if that makes you happy, whatever.

Neil
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Old 05-06-16, 02:22 PM
  #85  
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"""Well, again - if you're not interested, then why do you keep posting about it, over and over?"""

very simple, I just answer here, like all others do.



""""
That crazyguyonabike shouldn't exist?"""""

did I wrote something into that direction somewhere¿ NOPE,
crazyguyonabike can exist forever.


"""
That people shouldn't post journals there?"""" post as many journals you feel like, feel free.





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Old 05-06-16, 03:12 PM
  #86  
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Very simple, he is insistent on making this about his opinion.....

Thanks Neil for all you do. In fact as a reader on CGOAB, and one that has enjoyed many good journals, I need to contribute some. To I will do so, today, just to make sure you know that those of us who get something are appreciative.

Mark
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Old 05-06-16, 05:43 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by chrisx View Post
If you do not donate he will delete you.
you can read the journals
if you post you must donate
many a person told elobrate storys, just to get deleted.
do not take a chance on posting there, it could be a waste of time, unless you pay.
spend hours telling a story than pay for the space, or get deleted, simple as that
he sells advertiseing, is that not enough?
Turns out you can't count on contributing to keep you from being kicked off that site. While I still cared about it, at least three contributors (people who had sent in money!) were either asked to leave, or hounded until they left because they disagreed with the site's owner.



Whether you call it a community service to bicycle tourists or a vanity site, cgoab is a one-man show. The proprietor does not like people disagreeing with him. Do that, and you risk triggering an emotional response that's expected from a four year old, but not from someone more than 40 years old. One sign of maturity is that, as people get older, they can take a deep breath and decide how to respond to something they don't like. Cg's owner apparently thinks that deep breath is a mark of insincerity, rather than maturity.



It's a shame that cg has been developed to have the best platform for posting a ride journal, but the forum seems to be run for stroking the admin's ego instead of promoting vigorous discussions. I'm glad there are cycling forums that are run like professional sites, even if they also include ads.
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Old 05-06-16, 06:11 PM
  #88  
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As someone who has a personal website (two actually) and contributes to an underwater photographic e-zene, I can see both POV's though I don't see the need to try to put one site down over another. They really represent two different ideals regarding content.

For myself as a creator, I prefer to exercise almost exclusive editorial control on my projects and see my websites as personal artistic expression. I want them to reflect my vision, whatever that is, and would find it hard to let go of editorial control. My hat is also off to Neil for having the faith in his users not to stick his fingers in and try to tweak things. It would appear his vision is to allow a democratic process to play out rather than create an aesthetically pleasing product. I don't think you can have both really but think there is still room on the servers for both models to exist.
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Old 05-06-16, 06:27 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Turns out you can't count on contributing to keep you from being kicked off that site. While I still cared about it, at least three contributors (people who had sent in money!) were either asked to leave, or hounded until they left because they disagreed with the site's owner.



Whether you call it a community service to bicycle tourists or a vanity site, cgoab is a one-man show. The proprietor does not like people disagreeing with him. Do that, and you risk triggering an emotional response that's expected from a four year old, but not from someone more than 40 years old. One sign of maturity is that, as people get older, they can take a deep breath and decide how to respond to something they don't like. Cg's owner apparently thinks that deep breath is a mark of insincerity, rather than maturity.



It's a shame that cg has been developed to have the best platform for posting a ride journal, but the forum seems to be run for stroking the admin's ego instead of promoting vigorous discussions. I'm glad there are cycling forums that are run like professional sites, even if they also include ads.
Ok, another one who was kicked off the site, this time due to abrasive behavior, way back in 2011 (and again, a demonstration of how long people hold grudges). The ban was due to this person replying to one of my posts about Surly trying to project a "cool" and "radical" image with "but if it entertains you more to take umbrage, go right ahead. (And be grateful for the chance to blow your top, perhaps?)". I took offense to this because it implied that I had taken my position just for "entertainment", rather than it being an actual sincerely held opinion, as well as snidely saying that I should somehow be grateful to Surly. This irritated me, and I told him so, and it just went downhill from there - he dug in by calling me someone who "buys my ink by the barrel" and accusing me of having a "net tantrum". So yeah, I banned him. I generally kick people off who are being abrasive to me off the site. Particularly if they start calling my integrity into question.

I know some people think I'm being extreme when I do this. They think I should just let it all be a big free for all and have everybody being dicks to each other without consequence. But I have seen what happens when you have a website forum that just lets all the abrasive people hang around... naming no names... and it ain't pretty. Repeated attacks against me from users who seem to remain without any consequence is the main reason why I don't bother posting here much any more. So yes, on my own website I do weed out the people who seem inclined to be persistently abrasive, caustic, sarcastic etc. It just sours the atmosphere and makes it so that only the people with thick skins get heard. Not the sort of site that I want to run.

For the record, there are plenty of people who disagree with me on crazyguyonabike and they are still there years later, because they do it politely. I have had huge arguments with some users about all sorts of things, and they didn't get kicked off. It all comes down to, how do they argue? If they start insinuating things about my character, or constantly employing sarcasm or other caustic remarks to get their point across, and if they don't respond to requests to cut it out, then it's entirely possible they may be asked to leave. I run the site, sometimes I have to put my bouncer hat on. It's not a role I enjoy, but it's necessary to maintain a non-poisonous atmosphere. Of course I pay for it at times like this, when all those people who I have banished in the past pop up in places like this to have their go, but that's just par for the course.

And the reason why I don't artificially favor people who have donated in the past is that this would constitute corruption of the highest order - so if you pay me money, that is supposed to buy you some special privileges? That's not how it works. The donations are freely given because a person appreciates the website and the service I provide, but they are not some sort of get-out-of-jail-free card. I will not be bought, and I think the implied idea that past donations should somehow give you a pass for bad behavior is frankly abhorrent in its implication.

And finally, the fact that I am able to clearly remember each of these cases should speak to how relatively infrequently they occur. Some seem to want to portray me as this ogre who throws anyone off the site who disagrees with me in the slightest, but the truth is that long periods go by (years sometimes), with lots of debates and arguments and disagreements, without anyone getting the boot. It's really not a very common occurrence - certainly not anything like what these bitter ex-members are trying to portray.

Neil

Last edited by NeilGunton; 05-06-16 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 05-06-16, 10:36 PM
  #90  
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Thanks for doing the search for me.

I can only remember two serious, personal threats I've received in some 20 years online. You forgot to mention the second, when you threatened to punch me in the face after my initial post to that thread. So am I bitter, or was I so shocked by that disproportionate response that I think prospective users need to be warned ahead of time?

From my perspective, too, I remember at least one valued participant being asked to leave every summer. If this rate has slowed to several years between ocurrences, that may be an improvement or there may be fewer, and more careful, forum participants. For my part, I prefer the moderation on this and similar (some of which are commercial) forums.
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Old 05-06-16, 11:34 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I can only remember two serious, personal threats I've received in some 20 years online. You forgot to mention the second, when you threatened to punch me in the face after my initial post to that thread. So am I bitter, or was I so shocked by that disproportionate response that I think prospective users need to be warned ahead of time?
Yup, you're right, your snipe about "if it entertains you more to take umbrage, go right ahead" did provoke a comment from me that went "Wow, it's weird how comments on the internet can make you feel like punching someone in the face". But that wasn't a personal threat or remotely real, come on. It was me trying to express how your post made me FEEL. I even worded it that way. I don't think any reasonable person would interpret my remark to mean that I was literally going to travel hundreds or thousands of miles across country just to punch someone in the face. That said, I am sorry if you felt personally threatened, though. I do agree that comment was in poor taste and I'm not very proud of it. If I made you feel personally threatened then I do apologise for that.

From my perspective, too, I remember at least one valued participant being asked to leave every summer. If this rate has slowed to several years between ocurrences, that may be an improvement or there may be fewer, and more careful, forum participants. For my part, I prefer the moderation on this and similar (some of which are commercial) forums.
Well to be honest I don't keep a little list by my monitor of all the people I've thrown off the site due to their obnoxious behavior. But your characterization of every one of them being "valued participants" is a bit much. If a person is being thrown off the site, then it's because they are acting out in some way, behaving badly, being obnoxious, persistently sarcastic, caustic, etc. And, generally, it isn't just one occasion, it's a pattern of behavior over time.

I'm not perfect, but I do try to run the site as best I can, in good faith. There are thousands of people who use the site without incident, it's perhaps inevitable just by simple statistics that there will be a few who have the sort of personality that tends to rub me the wrong way, and occasionally one of them gets booted off. But I do try to learn each time it happens, and think about how I could handle it better next time. That said, I will not tolerate people who I feel are going to become a thorn in my side. I have spent most of the last 15 years developing and running crazyguyonabike single handedly, for free, day in, day out, year after year. I try my best to be even handed, but at the same time I won't tolerate BS. One of the upsides of having the site be run by a real person is that it's much more personal - if you have a problem, then you can write to me and often get a response (and a fix) within minutes. And, rather than some faceless corporation and anonymous moderators who you have no idea who the heck they are, you have a real person with a real name (not just some anonymous handle) to appeal to. I can be reasoned with, if you're up for that. I have had many disputes with people where we reached an understanding and it turned out just fine. But some people have trouble backing down, and that can end badly. It's not a perfect system, I never claimed it was, but it's what I've built, and a lot of people seem to like it and get on just fine with me at the helm. Yeah some get booted, with a cast of thousands it's inevitable over time, but it's also definitely the exception, not the rule.

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Old 05-07-16, 03:17 AM
  #92  
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need some kleenex now ;()()
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Old 05-07-16, 03:50 AM
  #93  
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Personally I can't handle crazyguyonabike. There's a lot of good info there. There's just too much input all at once. I just can't filter out all the excess. My son was diagnosed with ADD, I believe mine is worse.
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Old 05-07-16, 06:11 AM
  #94  
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Gee - - I thought this was a "Why I Like CGOAB" thread.
Seems people with a bone to pick just can't let it go.
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Old 05-07-16, 07:21 AM
  #95  
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Well, there's nothing like the self diagnosis of a medical disorder to justify a low opinion...

This just in: Man who believes he has vision problems dislikes Van Gogh's "Sunflower". Comments on public forum about it.
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Old 05-07-16, 08:48 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Turns out you can't count on contributing to keep you from being kicked off that site. While I still cared about it, at least three contributors (people who had sent in money!) were either asked to leave, or hounded until they left because they disagreed with the site's owner.



Whether you call it a community service to bicycle tourists or a vanity site, cgoab is a one-man show. The proprietor does not like people disagreeing with him. Do that, and you risk triggering an emotional response that's expected from a four year old, but not from someone more than 40 years old. One sign of maturity is that, as people get older, they can take a deep breath and decide how to respond to something they don't like. Cg's owner apparently thinks that deep breath is a mark of insincerity, rather than maturity.



It's a shame that cg has been developed to have the best platform for posting a ride journal, but the forum seems to be run for stroking the admin's ego instead of promoting vigorous discussions. I'm glad there are cycling forums that are run like professional sites, even if they also include ads.
Well said.

I prefer to use IPFS for anything I want to be on the web permanently.

Tired of dealing with the "one man show".

If you spend more time online than you do riding, it would be wise to reconsider your priorities in life.
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Old 05-07-16, 11:27 AM
  #97  
NeilGunton
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Originally Posted by jamawani View Post
Gee - - I thought this was a "Why I Like CGOAB" thread.
Seems people with a bone to pick just can't let it go.
Yes, unfortunately this has been my experience here on bikeforums. It seems that many ex-users of my site end up here, and inevitably whenever crazyguyonabike comes up as a discussion, guess who pops up. It's why I don't come here much any more. It always just ends up turning into a parade of anonymous sniping and dredging up old grievances from years ago. Honestly, it's just not worth the hassle.

I think what this demonstrates, to me at least, is the pros and cons of running a forum where you evict people who are obnoxious. On the plus side, you get to have a better experience on your own site, minus the dicks. But on the minus side, they don't just disappear - they go to places like bikeforums instead, and just wait for a chance to **** all over conversations about your site. It's very predictable, and I shouldn't be surprised, really.

Also, fame and success always comes with a price. I have a website that I designed to run a certain way, and when it was small and new, the feedback was universally positive. But after more than a decade, and becoming the largest repository of bicycle tour journals in the world, the baggage is going to build up. People who don't like the design, don't like me, got kicked off etc, of course there are going to be detractors. And often the detractors are the ones who seem to be more motivated to post their negative opinions. Sad but true.

When things go right, you don't tend to hear from people, because there is no imbalance in their head. Nothing is wrong, things are right, no motivation to tell the world about that. It just worked. The hundreds of people who write to me asking for help, and I reply within three minutes, and they reply saying "Wow I can't believe you are so responsive, thanks!", but that's the last you hear of it. They have their fix, and they move on. Sometimes you get kudos down the line on the forums, but often people go to crazyguyonabike, post their journal, and move on with their lives (for a lot of people, a bicycle tour is a once in a lifetime bucket list type of event).

Crazyguyonabike has going on for 12,000 journals and articles, over two million pics (with often a thousand new pics being uploaded daily during the busy summer months), a community that appears happy enough with what I am doing to support me and the site with completely voluntary donations to the tune of more than $40k per year, I guess I must be doing something right.

Neil
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Old 05-07-16, 01:42 PM
  #98  
str
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""""It always just ends up turning into a parade of anonymous sniping and dredging up old grievances from years ago. Honestly, it's just not worth the hassle.""""

more kleenex. you write far too much if it is not worth the hassle. you complain about the people who do not like your site, see it
positive, over 12.000 journals and over TWO million pics.

now you will ask me: why are you still writing here?

well, why do you still write here?

Last edited by str; 05-07-16 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 05-07-16, 02:12 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by str View Post
""""It always just ends up turning into a parade of anonymous sniping and dredging up old grievances from years ago. Honestly, it's just not worth the hassle.""""

more kleenex. you write far too much if it is not worth the hassle. you complain about the people who do not like your site, see it
positive, over 12.000 journals and over TWO million pics.

now you will ask me: why are you still writing here?

well, why do you still write here?
I'm here because people are discussing me and my website. Duh.

I would ask why you're here, but I've concluded after a couple of attempted exchanges with you that you're just having fun with trolling, so I know there's not much point in asking.
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Old 05-07-16, 09:15 PM
  #100  
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The name is crazy guy,guess he knows himself.
In all my years of posting I have been deleted off just one site, crazyguy.
Also the only site that ever asked me for money. hmmm
Do not take a chance on posting stories and helping cyclist with there questions. All that typing just to get deleted. A couple of the most interesting journals got unpublished to. It is pay to use. If you do not donate you do not journal on crazy guy. Calling a payment a donation is for tax reasons.



Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Turns out you can't count on contributing to keep you from being kicked off that site. While I still cared about it, at least three contributors (people who had sent in money!) were either asked to leave, or hounded until they left because they disagreed with the site's owner.



Whether you call it a community service to bicycle tourists or a vanity site, cgoab is a one-man show. The proprietor does not like people disagreeing with him. Do that, and you risk triggering an emotional response that's expected from a four year old, but not from someone more than 40 years old. One sign of maturity is that, as people get older, they can take a deep breath and decide how to respond to something they don't like. Cg's owner apparently thinks that deep breath is a mark of insincerity, rather than maturity.



It's a shame that cg has been developed to have the best platform for posting a ride journal, but the forum seems to be run for stroking the admin's ego instead of promoting vigorous discussions. I'm glad there are cycling forums that are run like professional sites, even if they also include ads.
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