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No luck so far with road tubeless

Old 07-02-20, 04:28 AM
  #1  
masi61
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No luck so far with road tubeless

I almost got out on the road yesterday with my tubeless compatible wheels on my road bike but no cigar.

I have taped my Dt Swiss R460 rims again and I have changed the valves twice but they still lose like 50% of their pressure in the first 15 minutes. The valves I have been trying that say they are ďuniversalĒ arenít.

The tubeless tires are from Excel Sports - 25mm Panaracer and look they would be nice. I spent hours and hours trying to get it right yesterday. I ordered DT Swiss road valves and hope they seal better. Most people would have given up by now. Iím pretty discouraged right now but I guess Iíll hang in there a bit longer.
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Old 07-02-20, 05:44 AM
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Sealant?
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Old 07-02-20, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post
Sealant?
Stanís regular in one, Effetto Mariposa in the other.
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Old 07-02-20, 09:35 AM
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So... $1000 question... where is the sealant leaking from?

If you put enough in there, it's gottsta be coming out!

Barry
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Old 07-02-20, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
So... $1000 question... where is the sealant leaking from?

If you put enough in there, it's gottsta be coming out!

Barry
No sealant is leaking out, just air. 95% certain that the valve stem is not making a complete seal.
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Old 07-02-20, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
No sealant is leaking out, just air. 95% certain that the valve stem is not making a complete seal.
If the sealent is not leaking out.... it's leaking IN
Sounds like it's leaking past the rim tape and into the rim itself

Barry

EDIT: This assumes you are rolling the wheel around to distribute the sealant after putting it in.
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Old 07-02-20, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
I almost got out on the road yesterday with my tubeless compatible wheels on my road bike but no cigar.

I have taped my Dt Swiss R460 rims again and I have changed the valves twice but they still lose like 50% of their pressure in the first 15 minutes. The valves I have been trying that say they are ďuniversalĒ arenít.

The tubeless tires are from Excel Sports - 25mm Panaracer and look they would be nice. I spent hours and hours trying to get it right yesterday. I ordered DT Swiss road valves and hope they seal better. Most people would have given up by now. Iím pretty discouraged right now but I guess Iíll hang in there a bit longer.
Were you riding or spinning the wheel? Seems like you just may need to get some sealant on whatever's leaking and it should seal. How is the fit between the hold and the tapered rubber on the valve? I used Stan's valve stems and it has a tapered rubber section that contacts the hole. When tightened there isn't really an opportunity for leaks.
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Old 07-02-20, 10:50 AM
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I used road tubeless for most of a year once. I used no sealant whatsoever. One tire held pressure about as well as a tube, that is I'd have to top off the pressure every other day. The other tire held for a week or so between fill-ups. I only took them off because I couldn't figure out how to get sealant into them (valve was not removable) and I didn't want to take them on a tour that way.

Off-road may be a different animal completely, but I didn't see any advantage for road tires. They were overall more hassle and no perceived benefit.
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Old 07-02-20, 10:51 AM
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I have those rims too. I've also had quite a bit of trouble getting a good seal.

I'm going to add less than 10g per wheel and solve your problem for good.

FattyStripper Tubeless Fat Bike Solution and SkinnyStripper Tubeless CX & DH Solution <link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_Logo_320.jpg" / ><link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_L

Get the skinny ones.

I've tried and occasionally succeeded with all variants of tubeless. Once I give up, I put the skinny strippers on and it's always perfect.

Tips, keep em clean going on. Install tires that have already been aired up. A super duper tight fit and levers can damage the strippers. They'll still work but not as well.

One ounce to 45ml of sealant per tire.

It will work.
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Old 07-04-20, 07:30 AM
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rosefarts - this is an interesting product and I believe you that it would hold air reliably.

I have not yet abandoned the quest to get it to seal the conventional road tubeless way. In my mechanic fatigue I ordered DT Swiss mountain bike valves and then realized that the road valves are what I need for the R460 rims. So I’ll evaluate between these 2 sets which one’s convex grommet matches up more precisely with the gentle concavity of the R460 rim shelf.

I checked tire pressures sure this morning and the front had 33 psi in it and the rear had 30 psi in it. I put sealant in 3 days ago and did one test ride on these rims. I get the feeling that I am almost there.
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Old 07-04-20, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
rosefarts - this is an interesting product and I believe you that it would hold air reliably.

I have not yet abandoned the quest to get it to seal the conventional road tubeless way. In my mechanic fatigue I ordered DT Swiss mountain bike valves and then realized that the road valves are what I need for the R460 rims. So Iíll evaluate between these 2 sets which oneís convex grommet matches up more precisely with the gentle concavity of the R460 rim shelf.

I checked tire pressures sure this morning and the front had 33 psi in it and the rear had 30 psi in it. I put sealant in 3 days ago and did one test ride on these rims. I get the feeling that I am almost there.
So I've managed to get tubeless to seal perfectly with more specifically designed rims.

I have a pair of Stan's 340's and Schwalbe Pro One's. Perfect seal, first time. In fact, Stan's rims + Schwalbe tires seems to be built for each other. Anything else, there's too much wiggle room.

At the end of the day, I've decided that life is too short and I've started putting strippers on everything.
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Old 07-04-20, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Were you riding or spinning the wheel? Seems like you just may need to get some sealant on whatever's leaking and it should seal. How is the fit between the hold and the tapered rubber on the valve? I used Stan's valve stems and it has a tapered rubber section that contacts the hole. When tightened there isn't really an opportunity for leaks.
i tried on generic Taiwanese aluminum valve with a universal cone and also an American Classic one with an O-ring design.
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Old 07-04-20, 08:16 PM
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One piece of un-asked for advice: before you mount the tire, press down on the valve from the top hard with your thumb to seat it and tighten the nut at the same time. Then carefully tighten the nut another quarter turn with a pair of pliers. Personally, I don't worry too much about matching the taper of the valve to the hole in rim. I've used cheap generics from Amazon for the past two years on various road/gravel/mountain rims without issue.
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Old 07-04-20, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
One piece of un-asked for advice: before you mount the tire, press down on the valve from the top hard with your thumb to seat it and tighten the nut at the same time. Then carefully tighten the nut another quarter turn with a pair of pliers. Personally, I don't worry too much about matching the taper of the valve to the hole in rim. I've used cheap generics from Amazon for the past two years on various road/gravel/mountain rims without issue.
Thanks for the tip! I will try this.
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Old 07-04-20, 10:38 PM
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I have the DT R470 rims. They leak air everyday. Need a top up every couple days. Stuck the tire in a container of water to check for bubbles. Don't see any. Switched over to race sealant see if there's any difference.
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Old 07-05-20, 01:45 AM
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the air usualy leaks out at the actual valve in the stem , because it gets gunked up with sealant and wont ever get a proper seal , it would leak sealant but air will get out , you need to get a pack of valves and clean them often !!
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Old 07-05-20, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Toespeas View Post
the air usualy leaks out at the actual valve in the stem , because it gets gunked up with sealant and wont ever get a proper seal , it would leak sealant but air will get out , you need to get a pack of valves and clean them often !!
I have noticed that the presta valves want to unthread themselves when I use my inflation cannister to pressure mount the tubeless tires onto the rim shelf. I don't think they are leaking from the presta valve insert (stem) right now but I will check.
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Old 07-06-20, 11:26 PM
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Hey masi61, don't give up! I recently installed 40mm tires on tubeless-ready rims with all sorts of problems. I learned rim taping is usually the source of leaks even when one hears air escaping from the valve area. I needed to add a layer of Gorilla tape over the pre-installed Stans-type thin tape just to seat...perhaps 2 layers of Stans would work better for a 25mm tire.

Using an awl to make a small hole for the valve seemed to work better than using a knife to make a slit. I read recommendations to seal the valve base with rubber cement or silicone but went ahead to add sealant.

One wheel would hold air for ~3 hours & the other ~30 minutes; swirling them around & setting on a bucket helped a bit but surprisingly, riding around the block a few times seems to have done the trick--2 days later I check & wow, tires have retained 90% of the air. I also read about the trick to brush tire beads with a bit of sealant before mounting which seems logical.
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Old 07-06-20, 11:45 PM
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Did you air it up to max psi and spray water around the entire wheel? Even the smallest leak would make a noise and show bubbles forming.
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Old 07-07-20, 04:36 AM
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This is why I went with the Mavic wheel/tire system.
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Old 07-07-20, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
One piece of un-asked for advice: before you mount the tire, press down on the valve from the top hard with your thumb to seat it and tighten the nut at the same time. Then carefully tighten the nut another quarter turn with a pair of pliers. Personally, I don't worry too much about matching the taper of the valve to the hole in rim. I've used cheap generics from Amazon for the past two years on various road/gravel/mountain rims without issue.
I had to do this also. Pretty much bruised my palm for multiple days with the amount of force I had to put in to keep the valve from hemorrhaging air. The shape of the gasket was too flat for my curved rim bed.
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Old 07-07-20, 08:51 AM
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so?, put a tube in it ..

heard feedback from trying to do tubeless on past transam tour-race competitors ,
running tubeless race type tires, expressing regret for doing so.

on the the starting end they did that work with the sealant on the sidewalk, being a huge mess..

As it could be hosed off..






...
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Old 07-07-20, 10:38 AM
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Old 07-07-20, 11:25 AM
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My theory is that the air leaks along the strip, anywhere, then tracks to the valve. So even a perfect seal may cause a air to come out at the valve. I also think this is why strippers work so well.

I've had luck seating the tape by inflating a tube and tire on it for a day or two before mounting sans tube.

He-man force to screw in the valve stem is assumed.

I stopped using road tubeless. I don't get many flats and tubes and tires are lighter than their tubeless+sealant counterparts. Especially so if you get those crazy expensive orange tubes ( I don't go that far). Gravel and mountain bike though, I'd rather fight at home and have a reliable ride.
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Old 07-10-20, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
My theory is that the air leaks along the strip, anywhere, then tracks to the valve. So even a perfect seal may cause a air to come out at the valve. I also think this is why strippers work so well.

I've had luck seating the tape by inflating a tube and tire on it for a day or two before mounting sans tube.

He-man force to screw in the valve stem is assumed.

I stopped using road tubeless. I don't get many flats and tubes and tires are lighter than their tubeless+sealant counterparts. Especially so if you get those crazy expensive orange tubes ( I don't go that far). Gravel and mountain bike though, I'd rather fight at home and have a reliable ride.
I un-taped both the front and rear yesterday. I found some sealant in the spoke holes on both front and rear rims. I could not remember if I had double taped, and it turns out I only single taped. I had purchased inexpensive "Kapton" tape (a translucent amber color) and also "3M" tape for the other. I re-taped the rear with 2 layers and utilized the DT-Swiss mountain valves that look almost identical to the DT-Swiss road valves and much to my dismay, I am having the same result. Pressure went from 111 psi down to 30 psi in under 1 hour. I will be getting the proper DT-Swiss road valves and will give it one more try.

Thank you for the tip about setting the tape by using a tube to smooth it down. I have tried to smooth it out with my finger or this plastic woodworking glue spreader mini spatula thing that I thought might work. But I have noticed lots of little air bubbles randomly. I really am trying to do my "due diligence" with this tubeless install but man this is getting ridiculous!
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