TXsailor

I guess we are talking carbon fiber to aluminum. Let me see what I can find out. I have a couple of things in mind that would likely work but we have a specialist and a mechanical engineer that might know what would be best. I work in manufacturing not repair so we use what the specs tell us to use and don't have to make decisions.
Here is my opinion of what will need to be done. Somehow you will have to separate the the failed joints even if the top tube or down tube is still holding. The bond may have failed due to age or possibly mold release or some kind of contamination not removed before assembly. Whatever happened you won't be able to inject anything. Then they will have to be cleaned and possibility roughed up and the adhesive applied. Everything will have to be aligned correctly before the adhesive sets up. After cure time you should then be good to go. Someone who builds frames will know how to get everything back right or maybe the joints will be tight enough that they will align themselves.
Anyone have any better ideas?

jetboy 

here is my theory: it just did not have enough glue. every other joint on this bike has glue one can actually see extruding past the joint. but where the two lugs attach to the headtube-- only on these two can one see no glue. And this is where it seems to have failed. I wonder if it was a manufacturer defect on this one bike or its a weak point for others as well.

texaspandj

​​​​​​​Guess I'll be checking mine today.

RobbieTunes

I agree. Also in windshield repair, etc.

The only issue is access to the area that needs to be glued. There's external access and internal access. TXsailor's fix is the best, most thorough, etc. But that would really require something "beyond." Perhaps there is a way to defeat the bond at the lower head tube lug, and if there is, then that would be ace.

Without disassembling, you've got access issues, but it almost sounds like the bond you need to fix is the aluminum tube to aluminum sleeve at the head tube?
Externally approaching this, you can only make access via holes you drill, hope you're in the right spot, and inject some kind of adhesive viscous enough to get in there under minor pressure and get into the failed areas.

Here's hoping there's an engineer out there who likes this kind of a challenge. There are tons who like to tinker, and finding the right man or woman to do it would be a huge stroke of luck. We at Ironman Empire should be able to reach out if each of us asks someone.

There's likely a way, just beyond my experience level. The guy who sold me my Carbon-R is a freak expert on this kind of stuff. I'll try to reach out to him.

Maybe we could crowd-source the repairs. There's a big world out there.

RobbieTunes

Ironmen just make sure their swords are sharp, and go into battle.
Ride it hard until it fails. There is no danger, only the exciting unknown.

TXsailor

Before we can proceed we will need more details and pictures. Jetboy When you can further diagnose it let us know

texaspandj

Funny you should say that. I was just thinking how I never bothered to look inside the carbon tubes and thought I'm just not as inquisitive as jetboy and, that all I want to do is ride them. And then I thought Nope I'd be putting my foot in my mouth as I ask more questions about Ironman than just about anyone ok ok second to fleslider. But the point is I never checked the carbon tubes and just figured I'd find out the hard way if they would fail. Because I had no intention of going easy on it. Then I read about failures in other vintage small diameter tube carbons and wondered. But jetboy instilled confidence in his findings of the compression plugs...and now I'm a little concerned. The fact is I still intend on using my Carbon Ironman for my 2019 season including training and racing. However curiosity got the best of me and I removed the handlebars and forks in order to peek at the innards. Well it turns out it IS aluminum wrapped carbon. Also no way to get to top tube from head tube. I decided to check the seat tube yeah definitely aluminum.
I brought my Carbon Ironman in to the house to check it out as I generally (like seypat) do my mechanicing in my place of business. Anyway my now 4 year old daughter said Mom said you're not supposed work on bikes in the house cause you'll get it dirty. However right after, she says I can help you if you want. As a stay at home dad/trophy husband I try to teach her about everything. As an older dad (I'm now 55) I want make sure she knows stuff I may not be around to teach her later. So she knows right tighty, most heavy construction equipment like bulldozer, grader, excavaters, and most importantly she's learning how to umm defend herself...not fight but defend herself. Especially towards bullies e.g. how to takedown, secure a dominant position, and armlock. Thankfully she has her Mom's athletic genes unfortunately for me it comes with my wife's body build. Think college softball player. Heavy bottom and wide shoulders. BTW the doctor said she's going to be 5'9" but could be as short as 5'7" or as tall 5'11" I'm hoping for the latter. To put it in perspective I'm only 5'7".
Back to my Carbon I had the headset adjusted perfectly before, but now not so sure, I'll have to ride it to make sure. That's a good enough excuse for me.

TXsailor

Quote I brought my Carbon Ironman in to the house to check it out as I generally (like seypat) do my mechanicing in my place of business. Anyway my now 4 year old daughter said Mom said you're not supposed work on bikes in the house cause you'll get it dirty.

I read this sitting in my recliner in the living room with a bike tire & wheel a inner tube and a Silca pump I had been trying to get to work next to me leaning up against the coffee table. In the spare bedroom there are two Centurions one on the trainer and one leaning against the bed no one uses. I guess I am spoiled

jetboy 

I took the front end off and I did identify pretty clearly that it is the upper top tube where it attaches to the lug that is loose. it can pivot about that point. The top tube still seems firm- it is the whole lug that can move. I tried some basic things to try and remove it (pulling hard and rubber hammer) but no luck. I may have to rig up some sort of devise to pull it- its sort of a bad place to get at though- nothing really to grip as one pushes out.
I dont see anyway to inject anything- it needs to come apart.

ill keep you posted.

RobbieTunes

Ha! I built a bike last night in my living room while watching the NFL's latest version of "we really have no idea what the rules are."

TXsailor

If you can't get it apart without destroying the bike there are some very thin epoxy resins we used when I worked on boats. They are designed for soft spots on decks where the plywood core has rotted. They set up slow and are thin so they sort of seep into voids. I'll get you the name and source if you have to go that route. If you manage to get it apart there is no doubt in my mind it can be fixed with the right adhesive.

canklecat

That bonding separation is what always makes me shy away from that era of carbon frames I see on craigslist. Seems like those tubes and lugs could be completely re-bonded but that's beyond my ken.

I think I'll stick with the steel. Every time I ride my Ironman, like Tuesday evening, I'm reminded the bike is still better than I am. Feels just about right when I do my part.

I wouldn't kick a Specialized Tarmac or even Trek 5200 OCLV out of the herd. But someone would need to leave one there first.

texaspandj

I think that is the sentiment of at least 90 percent here.
But for me, Centurion was right about so much i figured they may have got it right too. Plus that woven kevlar look is so nice it was hatd for me to say no.

seypat

I currently have an IM in storage that I haven't posted pics of. It needs some cleaning up, but good shape overall.

seedsbelize 

Thanks for that. And I see the correct choice was made. The stem is too long, the hoods are white(yuck), and probably more...
But, on first viewing, I'm excited!

seedsbelize 

I do love that plastic dork disc though.

seypat

I can have a box ready. You can carry the frame and whatever else back with you. Then we can ship the rest to you the cheapest way possible. That would be my recommendation. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

seypat

More pic. IMs, Centurions and an SR in the house! The mixte might be the prettiest bike I have.

seedsbelize 

The frame set is all of it. Nothing to ship. Looking forward to meeting you in person.

canklecat

Hey, how did my bike get in your garage?

Seriously, I've been looking for a red 'un with Biopace. Looks like my size too.

Put it on Pastebin. I'll download it later. Yes, I would download a bike or a bear.

seypat

What is the general consensus on the white chainrings? Yea or nay?

RobbieTunes

Where?

rccardr 

seypat

Post 5732, my pic of the 2 red/white IM. The beater in front came to me with white Superbe chainrings. That is the loaner bike for prospective cyclists/triathletes.

Classtime