Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#301
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What are your favorite 333m or 1/5 mi velodromes shape wise? Not necessarily surface or anything else. Just the shape.
#302
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DLV is pretty much made like a steep 250M track where the straights were stretched longer. Great for passing. Get lots of momentum diving off of turns 2 or 4 and long straights to complete the pass before turns 1 or 3. But, at high speeds, it's hard to hold the perfect line.
#303
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For pursuits i was given some advice to drift towards the black line going into the bend and drift up towards the red on the straight (in effect leveling out the corner slightly). I noticed in the Rotterdam 6 day racing Iljo Keisse when attacking was doing something similar but in a greater way - he was going up to the blue stayers line on the straights (It wasn't in preperation for a changeover or to avoid traffic it was happening when he had empty track in front too). I've not seen other riders do it to this extent before so was wondering if it an unusual tactic that Keisse was using or something that i should have noticed before if i'd been paying attention more closely!
#304
Senior Member
For pursuits i was given some advice to drift towards the black line going into the bend and drift up towards the red on the straight (in effect leveling out the corner slightly). I noticed in the Rotterdam 6 day racing Iljo Keisse when attacking was doing something similar but in a greater way - he was going up to the blue stayers line on the straights (It wasn't in preperation for a changeover or to avoid traffic it was happening when he had empty track in front too). I've not seen other riders do it to this extent before so was wondering if it an unusual tactic that Keisse was using or something that i should have noticed before if i'd been paying attention more closely!
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#305
aka mattio
For pursuits i was given some advice to drift towards the black line going into the bend and drift up towards the red on the straight (in effect leveling out the corner slightly). I noticed in the Rotterdam 6 day racing Iljo Keisse when attacking was doing something similar but in a greater way - he was going up to the blue stayers line on the straights (It wasn't in preperation for a changeover or to avoid traffic it was happening when he had empty track in front too). I've not seen other riders do it to this extent before so was wondering if it an unusual tactic that Keisse was using or something that i should have noticed before if i'd been paying attention more closely!
in six-days, there are a couple things to remember. one is that they're riding short velodromes. rotterdam is 200m, and a lot of those guys are used to even shorter. i think the kuipke in ghent is 150 or something like that. so, that "even elevation" line can be a bit more pronounced and noticeable on these short tracks.
the second thing to remember is that they're showing off.
You see this with sprinters. You accelerate up the bank and then down into the corner. Speed wise, you don't really lose much because you always return to zero elevation, but because you spend some time going up hill, it acts kind of like up shifting on a geared bike; your cadence can slow a bit and you can put more torque into the pedals. And remember, you get your speed right back once you go back down track.
#306
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You see this with sprinters. You accelerate up the bank and then down into the corner. Speed wise, you don't really lose much because you always return to zero elevation, but because you spend some time going up hill, it acts kind of like up shifting on a geared bike; your cadence can slow a bit and you can put more torque into the pedals. And remember, you get your speed right back once you go back down track.
#307
Senior Member
Ok, this is something I've been wondering about for a while. For you kilo guys and team sprinters: Grip. Where do you hold the bars for standing starts?
I've done some experimentation and it seems to help out of the hole if you hold the bars significantly further back from where you would normally grip. Problem is, ideal grip for the first couple of pedal strokes is not ideal by the time you reach the first corner, and is horrible by the time you exit the second corner. I've been doing a compromise grip and then shifting the grip forward after I sit. What are others doing with this?
Thanks.
I've done some experimentation and it seems to help out of the hole if you hold the bars significantly further back from where you would normally grip. Problem is, ideal grip for the first couple of pedal strokes is not ideal by the time you reach the first corner, and is horrible by the time you exit the second corner. I've been doing a compromise grip and then shifting the grip forward after I sit. What are others doing with this?
Thanks.
#308
Senior Member
...
there's another thing to do that's not so much about changing your speed and elevation; there's also trying to keep it consistent by varying your lateral location on the track; when i'm tired and saving every ounce of energy while in relief in a madison, i go to the rail on the straights, and then when the track lifts up in the corners, i head down to the stayer's line; and then back to the rail on the next straight. i try to ride a line that is all at a consistent elevation.
there's another thing to do that's not so much about changing your speed and elevation; there's also trying to keep it consistent by varying your lateral location on the track; when i'm tired and saving every ounce of energy while in relief in a madison, i go to the rail on the straights, and then when the track lifts up in the corners, i head down to the stayer's line; and then back to the rail on the next straight. i try to ride a line that is all at a consistent elevation.
The straightforward explanation is simply that the rider is trying to make the track more like a circle than an oval. Riding that line makes the entry line into the turns straighter. For some riders, it might also be that exiting the turn wide simply allows them to apply more power as they don't have to "flip" their bike vertical as fast as they exit the turn.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#309
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Ok, this is something I've been wondering about for a while. For you kilo guys and team sprinters: Grip. Where do you hold the bars for standing starts?
I've done some experimentation and it seems to help out of the hole if you hold the bars significantly further back from where you would normally grip. Problem is, ideal grip for the first couple of pedal strokes is not ideal by the time you reach the first corner, and is horrible by the time you exit the second corner. I've been doing a compromise grip and then shifting the grip forward after I sit. What are others doing with this?
Thanks.
I've done some experimentation and it seems to help out of the hole if you hold the bars significantly further back from where you would normally grip. Problem is, ideal grip for the first couple of pedal strokes is not ideal by the time you reach the first corner, and is horrible by the time you exit the second corner. I've been doing a compromise grip and then shifting the grip forward after I sit. What are others doing with this?
Thanks.
Some say that the ideal grip for the standing start is to have the hands as close to the body as possible, similar to the deadlift. This is why the Easton EC90 and other sprint bars have such long grip areas. This is also why standing starts generally suck using aero bars...because the hands are further away.
I also noticed the difference when I went from the EC90s (which are a carbon replica of the B123) to using B125s which have a shorter grip area. I missed the long grip.
I switch grips, from back to forward, when I exit turn 2 around the same time that I get that boost of speed.
But I guess it's a personal preference. Here are the Aussies. You can see the differences. I have a suspiscion that Perkins (man1) moves his hands up after the start. But, I can't find a pic of him finishing the lap.
#310
Senior Member
Ok, this is something I've been wondering about for a while. For you kilo guys and team sprinters: Grip. Where do you hold the bars for standing starts?
I've done some experimentation and it seems to help out of the hole if you hold the bars significantly further back from where you would normally grip. Problem is, ideal grip for the first couple of pedal strokes is not ideal by the time you reach the first corner, and is horrible by the time you exit the second corner. I've been doing a compromise grip and then shifting the grip forward after I sit. What are others doing with this?
Thanks.
I've done some experimentation and it seems to help out of the hole if you hold the bars significantly further back from where you would normally grip. Problem is, ideal grip for the first couple of pedal strokes is not ideal by the time you reach the first corner, and is horrible by the time you exit the second corner. I've been doing a compromise grip and then shifting the grip forward after I sit. What are others doing with this?
Thanks.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#311
Senior Member
You are right.
Some say that the ideal grip for the standing start is to have the hands as close to the body as possible, similar to the deadlift. This is why the Easton EC90 and other sprint bars have such long grip areas. This is also why standing starts generally suck using aero bars...because the hands are further away.
I also noticed the difference when I went from the EC90s (which are a carbon replica of the B123) to using B125s which have a shorter grip area. I missed the long grip.
I switch grips, from back to forward, when I exit turn 2 around the same time that I get that boost of speed.
But I guess it's a personal preference. Here are the Aussies. You can see the differences. I have a suspiscion that Perkins (man1) moves his hands up after the start. But, I can't find a pic of him finishing the lap.
Some say that the ideal grip for the standing start is to have the hands as close to the body as possible, similar to the deadlift. This is why the Easton EC90 and other sprint bars have such long grip areas. This is also why standing starts generally suck using aero bars...because the hands are further away.
I also noticed the difference when I went from the EC90s (which are a carbon replica of the B123) to using B125s which have a shorter grip area. I missed the long grip.
I switch grips, from back to forward, when I exit turn 2 around the same time that I get that boost of speed.
But I guess it's a personal preference. Here are the Aussies. You can see the differences. I have a suspiscion that Perkins (man1) moves his hands up after the start. But, I can't find a pic of him finishing the lap.
#312
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The Scattos are a great Sprint bar for the reasons I noted above. Notice the following on Scattos:
- The grip area is long allowing for the hands to come close to the hips for the standing start.
- The grips are V-shaped. They narrow about -2cm when you shift your hands forward. So, they measure 37cm at the bar ends...but 35cm at the front of the grip area. This sort of forms your forearms into a V shape.
- There is a notch at the front of the grip area that matches where your thumb and index finger meet. So, if you move your hands all the way up, you complete the aero tuck.
vs
These are all minor things. But, if you are looking for 1% gains, here they are
- The grip area is long allowing for the hands to come close to the hips for the standing start.
- The grips are V-shaped. They narrow about -2cm when you shift your hands forward. So, they measure 37cm at the bar ends...but 35cm at the front of the grip area. This sort of forms your forearms into a V shape.
- There is a notch at the front of the grip area that matches where your thumb and index finger meet. So, if you move your hands all the way up, you complete the aero tuck.
vs
These are all minor things. But, if you are looking for 1% gains, here they are
#313
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Do it when you sit and setting into your tuck as you max out your cadence. But, I've done it while I'm entering the turn before I sit.
Last edited by carleton; 01-08-14 at 01:35 PM.
#314
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
About how much slower is one expected to run during offseason in a flying 200?
#315
Senior Member
Don't be alarmed if its a lot! Presumably you are working on strength, not in race wheels/gear and its cold out. The cold is huge. Don't sweat it, in fact, I woildn't even bother getting times in January or February.
#316
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Early season times can't be used as a predictor of anything. Just understand that they will go down. Think of all of the variables:
- Air temperature
- Amount of clothing you wear in Feb/March vs July/AUG
- Equipment (race/training wheels)
- Body weight (some people lean out as the summer race season progresses)
- Gearing (many people can't ride big gears early in the season and progress to them over the months)
- Not to mention hammering out the kinks in your form as the season progresses.
So, if you time yourself, just use that as a baseline and go from there.
#317
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There any good photo galleries form recent 6 days? I specifically want to look over the bikes the bike set ups.
#318
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https://www.facebook.com/cannellacycling always have a good selection
#319
VeloSIRraptor
A few photos (not many) of the setups in Ghent for comparison are here via Pez.
Interesting - almost no one using Sphinx bars in Ghent, at a minimum,Stroetinga, De Buyst, Iljo, Kalz, were all doing madisons on standard drop bars - all on 3T fancy-fancy bars for Rotterdaam. (Maybe Hester as well, he didn't do much in the way of Madisons in Ghent)
**edit** Thought so, but find the photos till just now - Alex Rasmussen also went back and forth on Sphinx/no-Sphinx bars over the various madisons.
I'm assuming this has something to do with the additional banking-force at Ghent causing flex in the bars? I've heard that the Sphinx bars are susceptible to that, but it doesn't seem to stop them being used the rest of the 6day season.
Last edited by Hida Yanra; 01-09-14 at 04:30 PM. Reason: added info
#320
aka mattio
https://www.facebook.com/sixdayracing has some more photos.
#321
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Has anyone on here use the Surly Fixxer hub conversion kit on a HED3 TriSpoke rear wheel or any carbon rear wheel?
#322
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if this was someone else than i would suspect a slower time. a person who's been training/racing for 5+ years.
#324
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Team Perko
Thanks for your email.
For Team Sprint and all races I keep the same hand position from start to finish.
Thanks for the question, Train Hard, Train Smart
Cheers Shane