CompleteStreets

I have test ridden or rented bikes from about a dozen different bike shops over the past couple years. Without fail, whenever a bike shop employee sets my seat height, he/she sets the height WAY too low (perhaps two inches too low). Even after readjusting it, they still set it too low and I have to ask for a third adjustment.

If I use the height that they initially think is right I have an uncomfortable amount of bend in my knee. I can feel my knees begging for more leg extension on uphill stretches.

I'm 32 years old and I've never had any knee problems whatsoever. I do set my seat height such that I have a little bit of bend in my knee, but apparently none of the bike shop workers agree with what I think is right. The position that feels most comfortable to me is as follows:

When I'm sitting on the saddle, with one crank arm at the 6:30 position (in line with the seat tube), I place my HEEL on the pedal with pretty much no bend in my knee. When I'm actually riding, with the balls of my feet on the pedals, this gives me a slight bend of the knee when the pedals are in the 6:30 position. It feels just right to me. I've been biking fairly regularly for the past ten years. I average about ten miles per day. Occasionally I ride 50+ miles in a day. I've never used clipless pedals. I've been riding mountain or hybrid bikes, so the handlebars are more upright than for road bikes.

So tell me, should I be lowering my seat height by 1-2 inches to a position that makes my knees hurt?

The follow up question is: I'm planning to buy a new bike very soon and I'm worried that I won't be able to find a bike shop that can help me choose and adjust a bike that actually fits and won't cause me injury. If I get into a disagreement over the seat height, there's no chance I'll be able to get the handlebars adjusted correctly, and I can see myself developing knee, back and/or neck injuries. Thanks for your help.

jyl

Your method of choosing initial saddle height is correct, with this addition: pedal a few strokes using your heels, and make sure your hips are not rocking, i.e. you are not stretching to reach the pedal with your heel.

That gets you in the ballpark. You might then tweak saddle height depending on your preferences. Some people pedal toes down, others heel down. If you spin a high cadence you might prefer a slightly lower saddle than if you mash a low cadence. And some just prefer a more or less extended leg.

Don't rely on the bike shop to adjust your bike's fit for you. Some are better at it, others don't even try, a few just want to sell the bike in stock. Bikes are adjustable with just a couple Allen wrenches. Do it yourself.

Of course, you need to buy a bike that is generally the right size given your body dimensions, close enough to be adjusted to you. Use a fit calculator (example here Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist ).

KBentley57

The reasons you state (and a few winter months) are the reason I bought a cheap trainer. It makes working on fit easy compared to the riding/adjusting cycle, and is much cheaper than a fit. I wouldn't expect any shop at this point to adjust the bike beyond seat height/aft for a potential buyer. However, if you walk in with a real expectation of buying, and you make them aware of that, I'm sure they'll do pretty much whatever you want, up to a half hour of their time. Try to go in around 10:30 am, or about 2:00. Those seem to be the least busy times in the shops around here, they'll have more time to work with you.

wphamilton

Do you know your preferred measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the saddle? Just bring a tape measure to check, and tell them.

Staggerwing

Yeah, I set my bikes up the same way. Just a slight bend in the knee, when heel is on down pedal (I see 5:30 position as an approximate match for the seattube slope). Then, take a high cadence run and if hips rock, adjust down a smidgen. Comfortable pedaling for hours. Any lower just does not feel right.

Yes, do measure and record the center of BB to intersection of saddle surface, along the seat tube. Also, record the distance from the seat intersection point, to the your top of your bars. Seat setback counts too, but that is easy to get a feel for. Makes it easy to check out new rigs without worrying about the size number pasted on the tube or stamped on the BB.

Igualmente

Your approach is where I would start. Also, I ride about 1/2" lower than the bike fit calculators tend to recommend. Wouldn't go lower, but might still raise it slightly. Still working on it.

I had a funny experience at a shop... they tried to start with the seat set using my iliac crest (top of hip bone). It was a good 2" too high. I could eyeball it as wrong, so I had them lower the seat, then lower it again after trying it. On my test ride it was still kind of high, but at least I could get some sense of the bike. The other LBS did better.

CompleteStreets

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Now that I know I'm not crazy I have more confidence with determining my seat height on my own.

Here's the next part of my bike fitting woes. I have poor posture. When I stand upright, it appears that I'm slouching with my stomach out and my shoulders thrown back. When I had an annual checkup and the doctor was measuring my height he repeatedly told me to straighten my back. I did the best I could but apparently my body is just different than a typical person's. Maybe I've been sitting in desk chairs with poor posture for years. Who knows. Another time, I had a chiropractor tell me to sit up straight. He analyzed my posture and told me that my chin was about two inches more forward than most people. He said this could be related to a number of things over the years.

What I'm getting at is I doubt that any bike fitting charts that reference arm length and other body measurements will do me any good because of my strange posture. I sometimes wear a heavy backpack while biking. I really want to have a good bike fit and I'm hoping that I can find someone who can properly fit me at a reasonable cost. I'm not sure I've ever had a bike that's fit right, so I don't trust myself to get the perfect fit. Any tips on identifying a bike fitter who knows what they're doing? Thanks.

Daddy Wags

When ever I go to the bike shop they always set the saddle too high on the bikes I am trying out.

I have done all the calculations such as Lemond's .883 times PBH, and my riding enjoyment is a good 3/4" under that. Most comfortable isn't always most efficient. I also jack up the stem for comfort.....but then again I lose some efficiency. I have a lousy back, I'm old, and I love to ride......In comfort.

I have found the best way to get my seat adjustments right for me is to take my allen wrenches and tape measure along for the ride and ride over the same 5 mile stretch time after time and make notes.

geoffs

This is a good guide to setting seat height SEAT HEIGHT ? HOW HARD CAN IT BE? » Bike Fit » Featured » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website

CompleteStreets

Well, this article has caused me to completely lose faith in the process of being "professionally fitted." It seems that the vast majority of fitters do their fitting based on rules of thumb, equations and averages. A good bike fitter is priceless, but they are hard to find. I think I'll just fit myself. Oh well.

geoffs

:-)
you mentioned that you have poor posture.
Do something about it! start going to pilates or yoga
I do stretch classes with a woman here in Sydney who is really good. A bit far for you to travel but have a look at the youtube videos when you search for "Cherie Seeto" or "Kit Laughlin"

jimc101

Not seen any reference to "professionally fitted." till you brought it up, massive difference in what could be expected from a bike shop fitting, and a pro fit (which you pay lots for in addition to the bike), which would be Retul or similar, The OP didn't mention it, or getting out sensors, lasers or computers

fietsbob

2 inches is too big a change.. more likely a cm or less .. efficient pedaling includes the toes pointing down at bottom of stroke, to spin easier.

got like 300 bike shops in PDX metro area, you may just be exaggerating your fears ..
for our entertainment?

superdex

You're doing the right thing knowing what works for you. Knees shouldn't hurt.

One thing to consider is paying for a fit (instead of the ten minute, 'ride around the parking lot' adjustment). May cost a couple hundred but worth it...

pakossa

Funny, my fittings -- 4 of them -- put me at what I'm 99% certain is 5 - 15 mm too HIGH for me! (I too have lost all faith in "pro" fittings!)

andr0id

Did they eyeball it or use the giant protractor thing that actually measures your hip/knee/ankle angle?

Kopsis

That's when I lose faith in a fitter. A static goniometer measurement is just shy of useless. If the fitter is going to go by knee angle, they better have a video motion capture system to see what it actually is under load. Sure you can use the static measurement as a starting point, but it's no better than 0.883 * inseam (and arguably worse).

The problem is that there's a big difference between a "pro" fitter that works by formula and one that works by experience. The formula fits are based on studies of racers and are designed to put you in the position that gets you the most power and/or best aerodynamics. A fitter that works from experience will know how to adapt that to the needs and abilities of a specific rider. If the fitter doesn't start by asking you a bunch of questions about how/why you ride followed by off-bike tests to evaluate you "functionally", then your "pro" fit might be just that -- a fit for a pro cyclist with your body measurements.

andr0id

Well, I'm a reasonably athletic road cyclist with no significant abnormalities, so a fit for a pro cyclist with my body measurements works pretty well as far as seat and pedal set up. I will take a more relaxed, slightly shorter and higher front end though.

A lot of younger fitters seem to want to set everyone up like a racer. The more experience fitters than have been cycling for 20 or 30 years tend to do a better job getting things tailored to the rider's needs.

Any fit is a starting place, but an inexperienced cyclist will not really know what to change based on how they are riding.

I see a lot of new riders go toes down when let loose in the wild and that will make a seat seem too high when the real fix is to get the heel down.

pakossa

2 of the fittings -- by my custom bike builder -- were eyeballed. One used the protractor, and the other was with that Guru thing -- where they adjust the bike fit while pedaling. (But that one checked it with the protractor at the end.) Actually, the one that just used the protractor seems to have been the closest.