DaveQ24

LOL about the personal irony I found in your comment about having space for bikes. The bike I bought last summer with the specific intention of using it as a winter bike is one of the majority of my bikes that are packed away for the winter in the far end of my garage behind a lot of other things. I would have to pull a lot of stored "summer" items like lawn mowers, patio furniture etc out on the driveway and take a good couple of hours doing it all to get to these bikes. Too much "stuff" for the space - there was a PBS documentary a while back called Affluenza about American consumerism - and I admit I definitely have that mentality of "see it ... want it ... buy it". Hence the reason I posted a New Years resolution in Fifty Plus -I am NOT buying anything else cycling-related until I actually use all I have now. And I mean it. I have more than enough of everything except what I can't buy, which is free time.

So yes, the unused bike, a GT Zaskar Carbon hardtail I got at Performance really will wait until 2017 to be set up and ridden. Unfortunately.

Hypno Toad

The conditions in the Twin Cities continue to get worse. The Christmas day rain formed a lovely glaze of ice all over the place. Last night, we had another rain/ice event adding to the skating rink. I have my Kona Dew Drop set up with a 700x35 studded front tire and Top Contact rear, I took it for a 20 mile yesterday to find out if the rail-trails are getting better. Here's an edit from the ride on the Lake Minnetonka LRT:


This ice-covered limestone is 'the norm' for about 25-30% of the route I rode. There where some unplowed trails and trail access ramps I had to walk. I expect a studded fatbike would have still needed to be walked. It's bad around here and no hope of a thaw in the forecast (sub-zero temps at night all week). I guess I'll be Zwifting until pull the trigger on the studded tires for the Pug.

(sound is messed up on the video, but I don't care enough to fix it).

rumrunn6

nice looking trail. uniform & almost looks plowed?

Hypno Toad

It's one of my favorite trails, it's easy to get to, close to my house, and has lots of lovely views of Lake Minnetonka (it also helps that the trail goes right past the Excelsior Brewing tap room)

I was happy that the ice covering was mostly smooth, you can see some shaking in the video from the rough boot tracks frozen into the surface. There was only one section with some deep ruts in the ice.

Happy to report, the Kona kept me off the ice.

Banzai

This freezing rain stuff is a bunch of crap. I just want some nice snow.

This weather reminds me of Kansas City winters, where freezing rain and iced roads were the winter norm.

FrankHudson

Yup, this morning's Twin Cities' roads put me back on the studded tire 29er bike. Main roads were generally OK as much as I could tell, but side roads were at times 100% ice covered. The studs worked, but I re-routed off the ice and onto a major street eventually as I didn't want to press my luck. It's funny, but at times on the ice when I'm walking the studded tire bike to lock up, I'll keep both hands on the bars with one hand on the front brake and lean down on the bars and sort of use the studded front tire like a walker, locking the wheel when the bike or I start to slip.

I think most Twin Cities winter riders stick to main roads in winter where the plows, salt, and sanding do a halfway decent job after the storm passes; but for me all the cars rushing by on the main roads make for a less enjoyable ride. I didn't get to the Greenway/trail today to see how that was today.

I'm still waiting on my Nates and I think I'm getting a bag of GripStuds to have ready.

Hypno Toad

This is exactly like me, I used to bike commute to an office every day and I'd use the county roads. They were cleared and good conditions, but never any fun. Now I'm in a home office, so daily rides are more focused on enjoyable routes... but those routes are damn sketchy and not so enjoyable!

My local bike-commuting buddies said the Greenway was in rough shape. I expect the city to salt it today, but there's still gonna be lots of ice to challenge studs (both on the tires and on the bikes).

DaveQ24

So, I still haven't had my first ride of 2017. I don't want to sound like Eeyore, but I feel a little doomed. I had hoped to ride on New Years Eve - but the 40 mph winds put that off. I woke up the next morning unable to open one eye for more than a few seconds due to pain - it was a little scratchy the night before, I used some hydrating drops for contacts and went to bed early - and spent a couple of hours at an urgent care then a couple more hunting down an open pharmacy that could fill a couple of prescriptions. Infection and scratched my cornea - red, teary, photosensitive - UC doctor wasn't sure which came first, the scratch caused the infection or I scratched it trying to get my contact out, which was a struggle.

So, I can see again without squinting against the light, but we have no snow either - 50 and rain today - when I do finally get to ride I will actually give my promised report on the Dillingers. Thursday morning is my next opportunity - still not sure if we will have snow, but the temp should be about 8 degrees.

Tim_Iowa

I have a set of studded 120 tpi Dillinger 5's on my fat bike, going on my third season. They were super expensive, but they're superb tires.

They're surprisingly fast-rolling on pavement; I'd rate them about 1 gear harder than my stock 60 tpi Ground Control 4.6" tires. By "one gear harder", I mean that riding a 34 x 15 feels as hard as a 34 x 14 with the GCs, given the same psi.
That's impressive, considering the studs and aggressive paddle tread.

They have pretty good traction off-road. They're OK with some snow on the ground, but "how good vs how much snow" totally depends on the underlying ground conditions (dry, wet, icy) and the snow consistency (fluffy, heavy, wet, sticky).
I tried to ride 4" of fresh wet snow last year and didn't get very far. The snow just packed the tread and then started slipping.
In contrast, my personal best segment time on my local singletrack was set last year on firm packed snow (a guy got permission to "groom" it with a snowmobile).

Dillingers do not have as deep of a tread as Bud/Lou/Nate or other luggy tires. In some snow conditions, those tires will out-perform a Dillinger.
But in 3" or less of not-too-wet-or-sticky snow, the Dillingers usually handle fine.

But if there's any ice involved, you want studs. My trail conditions are similar to yours (I'm one state south in Iowa), with a hard pack of frozen slush with melt water on top.
I can ride my local greenbelt trail (Sac & Fox) at full effort at 8/9 psi with my Dillinger 5's. They float on top of the crusty, potholed ice (perforated by footprints when the snow was last thawed), and grip perfectly across the smooth ice patches where the melt water pooled and froze.
I should probably lower the psi for this surface, but then I'd have to raise it again for the couple of miles of pavement before I get home. Dillinger 5's react well to low pressures; I've had them down to 5 psi for really sloppy stuff.

However, the frozen ruts on my local singletrack defy even the Dillingers. The twisty ice ruts try to steer my tire out from under me. I can do it at lower pressure, but it's still hairy.

Also, I run my rear tire backwards, as suggested by 45 Nrth.

The biggest detractor to the Dillinger tires is the price. But, I see them as cheaper than an injury claim from falling on ice, so therefore a worthy purchase. I felt studs are necessary for morning winter commutes (black ice on the trail), and I wanted a fat bike for winter trail fun. I'm happy to report that the combination of both (fat w/studs) lets me ride in conditions that a non-studded fat tire has problems with.

Regarding size: Dillinger 4's measure close to advertised (3.8") on an 80 mm rim. Dillinger 5's, however, measure narrower than advertised (4.3" actual vs. 4.8" advertised) on an 80 mm rim.
So, the Dillinger 5 should really be considered a "Dillinger 4.5". Harumph. But, you should measure the clearance on your Pugs carefully, as you may be able to fit a 4.3" tire in the rear.

You could save money by purchasing a non-studded tire and inserting studs yourself, especially if you want to use fewer studs (say, every other hole or just the outer knobs).

Another tire to consider is the Terrene Wazia. It has a medium-knob tread, so I don't know yet how good it will do in deep snow. But you can get the "light" versions in 4" or 4.6" for $120 each non-studded, and more with studs.

I wouldn't consider the Vee Snowshoe studded, I've heard mixed reports.


If you choose to stud a tire yourself, make sure you do it before riding the tires. Otherwise, you'll spend a ton of time picking sand out of the stud pockets with a tiny tool.

DaveQ24

Thanks, good comments in general.

Regarding the price - yup, these tires cost more than the fairly top-of-the line winter Goodyears I had put on my one SUV. Definitely the most expensive bike tires I've ever bought.

But, I agree with the part of your comment which I didn't quote - better than a broken bone or a head injury.

Hypno Toad

Thank you for the great review! I appreciate the details on Dillingers in fresh snow. It's a rare day I'll be breaking trails in over 4 inches of snow, so that's not an issue.

Earlier today, I got another very positive review on Dillingers; a riding buddy posted his ride to Strava, he'd biked across Lake Minnetonka. Funny enough, I spotted him while I was riding a road past the lake. He was using Dillinger 4s to ride the lake ice, here's a picture I took yesterday and you get a good feeling for what riding on the lake was like:

IMG_20170102_110623986.jpg

I get a year-end bonus check in a couple weeks and I have $$$$ set aside for some Dillingers.

Leebo

The theory is that one could get at least 5 seasons out of studded tires for the fatty. Limit bare dirt and rocks, the studs are very durable on pavement. Have 5+6 years on 2 sets of road commuter studded tires. 5- 10 is not uncommon.

Tim_Iowa

Yep, I've ridden across several frozen lakes and ponds with my studded Dillinger tires. No problem at all, even when the ice is irregular and crusty like it looks like Minnetonka was in the pic.

Personally, I'm very cautious about riding across open water, even if it's frozen. I only do it when I'm riding with at least one other person, just in case either of us find a soft spot and go in.
Of course, our lakes don't freeze as solidly/reliably as yours do. Here in central IA, we get some deep cold weather in January but the rest of our winter involves thaw/freeze cycles.
It's going to be well below freezing for most of the next week, so I expect to ride some lake ice in my near future.

Are you getting the pre-studded Dillingers, or doing DIY?

Hypno Toad

I'm going with the pre-studded. Lazy is winning over cheap.

Yendor72

I ended up ordering 2 sets of Vee Rubber Snowshoe XL studded tires for my wife and me. I've read that they are not as good as the Dillingers, but at half the price I'm okay with that. My wife fell twice last Saturday and was not impressed with the crappy trails that have had snowmobiles compact the snow on that iced over really bad. Don't touch her bruise or she'll kick your ass too. She has the reach advantage on me.

Hypno Toad

Go to know!

I want to hear your thoughts on the Snowshoe tires.

FrozenK

The Snowshoes had issues on deep/loose snow, but should have good grip on ice.

FrankHudson

Thanks also to Tim_Iowa. That post had lots of useful experience/info.

Hypno Toad

I pulled the trigger, bought the Dillinger4 120tpi. Here's a clip from my 8-mile ride across frozen Lake Minnetonka. The rider with my is Jim from Edina, I simply ran into him at the start of my ride, we were both headed the same way - I was headed to Excelsior Brewery tap room and he was looping around Big Island. Based on today's 15 miles of pure ice and ice packed limestone, I'm very pleased with my choice.

Rollfast

Tried it once and you felt right. Snow 1, Me nil.


It's different this year.

rumrunn6

terrifying

Hypno Toad

It took a couple weeks, but the Dillinger4s finally let me hit the ground, and damn near went for a swim.


However, after 120 miles of a wide variety of conditions, I'm extremely impressed with these tires. One shockingly impressive performance was riding on untracked snow, I had the pressure down to 4 psi in the front and 5.5 psi in the rear. It rode great in the snow, but I was really wondering about the ride back on pack-snow and bare pavement. The rolling resistance was not bad and there was no tire-steer. I've never ridden a fat tire at that pressure without tire-steer.

rumrunn6

carry a CO2? it's a guilty pleasure

rumrunn6

can't tell why you went down. you didn't break through any ice did you? were the tires 1 lb too low & just squishy enough to be unstable?

Hypno Toad

Actually, I've got a good frame pump (Grifter) - but was too lazy to want to stop and pump it up (and didn't need to). In the past, with other tires, it hasn't been an option - tires with pressure this low were too much rolling-resistance on pack-conditions.