Out of "retirement" - Upgrade my old Celo Europa
#1
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Out of "retirement" - Upgrade my old Celo Europa
I recently re-experienced the joy in bike riding while on vacation last week. My son wanted to do his first triathlon and I thought, hey I have a bike you can use! The last time the bike was ridden was about 8 years ago. However, it was really about 25 since it had any serious mileage. Well, I managed to put about 50 miles on it last week, with one 23 mile ride and I think I'm hooked again!
The bike is in need of a bit of a tune-up, but I also want to do some modest upgrades to improve comfort, performance and possibly add some modern conveniences. I might join some local group rides, or hit some of our longer bike trails on the weekends.
The bike is a Celo Europa I purchased in high school around 1986 or 1987 if I recall. Unfortunately, it isn't the Colnago version. I believe it was made in Japan with Tange Infinity tubing. The bike is pretty much all original. It has Shimano 105 throughout. It's a 6-spd (13-24T) freewheel on the rear and Biopace (52/42) rings out front. Rims are Araya. I would post a pic, but I don't have enough posts yet.
I'm going to have it tuned-up with new cables/housings, bar tape, brake pads to bring it closer to new. While I'm at it, I'm thinking about upgrading the freewheel to 7-speed and probably the front chain rings as well. I would like to spread out the gears a bit more and give me a little bit more help in the hills. I'm thinking semi-compact (52/36) or compact (50/34) upfront and maybe 13/28T out back. I'm also considering switching out the downtube shifters to STI brake lever/shifters.
Questions
The bike is in need of a bit of a tune-up, but I also want to do some modest upgrades to improve comfort, performance and possibly add some modern conveniences. I might join some local group rides, or hit some of our longer bike trails on the weekends.
The bike is a Celo Europa I purchased in high school around 1986 or 1987 if I recall. Unfortunately, it isn't the Colnago version. I believe it was made in Japan with Tange Infinity tubing. The bike is pretty much all original. It has Shimano 105 throughout. It's a 6-spd (13-24T) freewheel on the rear and Biopace (52/42) rings out front. Rims are Araya. I would post a pic, but I don't have enough posts yet.
I'm going to have it tuned-up with new cables/housings, bar tape, brake pads to bring it closer to new. While I'm at it, I'm thinking about upgrading the freewheel to 7-speed and probably the front chain rings as well. I would like to spread out the gears a bit more and give me a little bit more help in the hills. I'm thinking semi-compact (52/36) or compact (50/34) upfront and maybe 13/28T out back. I'm also considering switching out the downtube shifters to STI brake lever/shifters.
Questions
- Gearing recommendations for an older, returning cyclist?
- Should I go with round or ellipse style chainrings?
- Is the upgrade to "STI" style shifters worth it? What makes do you recommend that are compatible with my Shimano derailers? Can I use an 8-10 speed with a 7 speed freewheel?
- Besides saddle time, anything else I should look at doing to the bike?
#2
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I have been doing some brushing up on bike technology. I guess I'm limited on the front chainring with my current crankset (I believe it is 130mm). Any reco's on crankset upgrade to utilize a smaller chainring?
#3
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Gearing depends where you are and what the hills are like.
Although you you can probably go to a 28 freewheel without needing to change other components.
No benefit to a 7 speed freewheel other than a bent axle.
When I got back on the bike, took me a year to get back and shoulder flexibility, so take your time
I would suggest you ride what you have - much will be revealed as you ride.
Although you you can probably go to a 28 freewheel without needing to change other components.
No benefit to a 7 speed freewheel other than a bent axle.
When I got back on the bike, took me a year to get back and shoulder flexibility, so take your time
I would suggest you ride what you have - much will be revealed as you ride.
Last edited by jcb3; 07-30-19 at 05:51 AM.
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I prefer a 7 over a 6 speed and it is no more likely to bend an axle since the spacing of the rear triangle is the same at 126 mm.
A picture of the bike showing the drive side would help to give better advice.
The current rear derailleur can likely handle 28 teeth so swapping out the existing 14-24 6 speed freewheel for a 14-28 7 speed freewheel is likely the most cost effective way to improve the gearing.
A picture of the bike showing the drive side would help to give better advice.
The current rear derailleur can likely handle 28 teeth so swapping out the existing 14-24 6 speed freewheel for a 14-28 7 speed freewheel is likely the most cost effective way to improve the gearing.
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Tires?
I didn't see mention, but if you've got old tires on there, fresh rubber would be great. Lots of good options out there, and good tires can make a world of difference.
I didn't see mention, but if you've got old tires on there, fresh rubber would be great. Lots of good options out there, and good tires can make a world of difference.
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Welcome back. Good to hear that you re found the love of riding.
For cranks, I got re introduced to a bio pace bike earlier this year. I hated the bio pace cranks when they were introduced, and hate them more now. They were the first thing that I swapped out on that bike. While it is a personal thing, my reco would be to find a good compact crank.
I recently picked up an IRD Defiant 50-34 from the Soma Bikes website for a really good price. It has that vintage look that will work with a mid 80's frame.
Also, there is a really good vintage shop in Louisville - Vic's Classic Bikes.
For cranks, I got re introduced to a bio pace bike earlier this year. I hated the bio pace cranks when they were introduced, and hate them more now. They were the first thing that I swapped out on that bike. While it is a personal thing, my reco would be to find a good compact crank.
I recently picked up an IRD Defiant 50-34 from the Soma Bikes website for a really good price. It has that vintage look that will work with a mid 80's frame.
Also, there is a really good vintage shop in Louisville - Vic's Classic Bikes.
#7
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I'm in Cincinnati, OH and we have our fair share of hills around here. Almost any route out my door will take me to a moderate to serious climb.
I went down a rabbit hole last night and tried to get up to speed on gearing. In running the numbers, I'm fairly convinced a 7 speed hub alone isn't going to give me the advantage I want. It seems as @Thalia949 suggests, my chainrings are the big offenders. There appears to be too much overlap in my current 52/42 combination (as my rides last week suggest). I could swapout the chainrings, but the 130mm spread limits my inner options to maybe a 38 or 39 tooth I believe. I'm really liking the idea of going to a semi compact or compact crank. Of course, that opens a whole can of worms and makes me consider upgrading the whole drivetrain. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go there yet from a budget standpoint. I would prefer to do incremental upgrades as my riding time increases and budget allows.
In looking at newer cranksets, they appear to be marketed as 9-speed or 10-speed. What does this mean? If I change out my crankset alone, will it be compatable with a 6 or 7-speed freewheel?
Given an initial budget of $150-$250 what would you do?
I went down a rabbit hole last night and tried to get up to speed on gearing. In running the numbers, I'm fairly convinced a 7 speed hub alone isn't going to give me the advantage I want. It seems as @Thalia949 suggests, my chainrings are the big offenders. There appears to be too much overlap in my current 52/42 combination (as my rides last week suggest). I could swapout the chainrings, but the 130mm spread limits my inner options to maybe a 38 or 39 tooth I believe. I'm really liking the idea of going to a semi compact or compact crank. Of course, that opens a whole can of worms and makes me consider upgrading the whole drivetrain. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go there yet from a budget standpoint. I would prefer to do incremental upgrades as my riding time increases and budget allows.
In looking at newer cranksets, they appear to be marketed as 9-speed or 10-speed. What does this mean? If I change out my crankset alone, will it be compatable with a 6 or 7-speed freewheel?
Given an initial budget of $150-$250 what would you do?
#8
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Maybe start with an overall budget and allocate dollars where you're likely to get the best payoff. Here are some estimated direct mail parts prices and where I'd put my money (I'd be doing my own labor, so don't account for that):
1) Tires: $75
2) Brake pads: $20
3) 7-Speed Freewheel: $20
4) Inner stainless drawn cables: $16
5) 8-speed chain: $15
6) SR Apex (non-swaged version) or other from plentiful Japanese smaller BCD crankset w/BB: $55
7) Chainring(s) to suit: $40
If you have to pay for the labor, then add catalog parts prices and markup appropriately for each job.
I'd do 1-5 and then see. That's less than $150.
1) Tires: $75
2) Brake pads: $20
3) 7-Speed Freewheel: $20
4) Inner stainless drawn cables: $16
5) 8-speed chain: $15
6) SR Apex (non-swaged version) or other from plentiful Japanese smaller BCD crankset w/BB: $55
7) Chainring(s) to suit: $40
If you have to pay for the labor, then add catalog parts prices and markup appropriately for each job.
I'd do 1-5 and then see. That's less than $150.
#9
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There's a limiting assumption. Why not a period correct crankset with a small bolt circle diameter? You can buy NOS or slightly used chainrings, too. There's no need to buy new cranks for older drive trains. Most of us have five or six vintage cranksets sitting in boxes right now at home. Scan eBay and compare the date from Velobase for particular models and you'll see. You can buy cheap cartridge bottom bracket bearings to match the spindle length you'll need. Simple.
#10
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I'm in Cincinnati, OH and we have our fair share of hills around here. Almost any route out my door will take me to a moderate to serious climb.
I went down a rabbit hole last night and tried to get up to speed on gearing. In running the numbers, I'm fairly convinced a 7 speed hub alone isn't going to give me the advantage I want. It seems as @Thalia949 suggests, my chainrings are the big offenders. There appears to be too much overlap in my current 52/42 combination (as my rides last week suggest). I could swapout the chainrings, but the 130mm spread limits my inner options to maybe a 38 or 39 tooth I believe. I'm really liking the idea of going to a semi compact or compact crank. Of course, that opens a whole can of worms and makes me consider upgrading the whole drivetrain. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go there yet from a budget standpoint. I would prefer to do incremental upgrades as my riding time increases and budget allows.
In looking at newer cranksets, they appear to be marketed as 9-speed or 10-speed. What does this mean? If I change out my crankset alone, will it be compatable with a 6 or 7-speed freewheel?
Given an initial budget of $150-$250 what would you do?
I went down a rabbit hole last night and tried to get up to speed on gearing. In running the numbers, I'm fairly convinced a 7 speed hub alone isn't going to give me the advantage I want. It seems as @Thalia949 suggests, my chainrings are the big offenders. There appears to be too much overlap in my current 52/42 combination (as my rides last week suggest). I could swapout the chainrings, but the 130mm spread limits my inner options to maybe a 38 or 39 tooth I believe. I'm really liking the idea of going to a semi compact or compact crank. Of course, that opens a whole can of worms and makes me consider upgrading the whole drivetrain. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go there yet from a budget standpoint. I would prefer to do incremental upgrades as my riding time increases and budget allows.
In looking at newer cranksets, they appear to be marketed as 9-speed or 10-speed. What does this mean? If I change out my crankset alone, will it be compatable with a 6 or 7-speed freewheel?
Given an initial budget of $150-$250 what would you do?
Cheapest solution is to get a big 7 speed freewheel. That will require a new rear derailleur and chain.
Swapping out the crank gets more expensive.
You don't need to buy new stuff to make this work as there is plenty of older stuff that will do the job and cost less but you'll have to hunt around for parts.
#11
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Cheapest way to get a compact crank is to find an older mountain bike triple (110/74 bcd) and run it as a double "compact" crank. If you get a shimano triple, it may well work with your existing bottom bracket.
Same for the rear derailleur. Best bet is to find an older rear derailleur from a mountain bike like a Deore. That can handle at least 32 teeth in the rear.
If you want to go new, you don't need to spend a bomb. The cheap Shimano derailleurs are fine (like a Claris). FSA makes square taper 110 bcd cranks that don't cost a lot and will work just fine.
Still you are talking around $200 in parts not including labor.
Same for the rear derailleur. Best bet is to find an older rear derailleur from a mountain bike like a Deore. That can handle at least 32 teeth in the rear.
If you want to go new, you don't need to spend a bomb. The cheap Shimano derailleurs are fine (like a Claris). FSA makes square taper 110 bcd cranks that don't cost a lot and will work just fine.
Still you are talking around $200 in parts not including labor.
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A second on the tires--plus, tires are a product that have done nothing but improve over the years since your Celo was new. Anything by Conti, Panaracer, Michelin or Maxxis.
#13
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Cheapest way to get a compact crank is to find an older mountain bike triple (110/74 bcd) and run it as a double "compact" crank. If you get a shimano triple, it may well work with your existing bottom bracket.
Same for the rear derailleur. Best bet is to find an older rear derailleur from a mountain bike like a Deore. That can handle at least 32 teeth in the rear.
If you want to go new, you don't need to spend a bomb. The cheap Shimano derailleurs are fine (like a Claris). FSA makes square taper 110 bcd cranks that don't cost a lot and will work just fine.
Still you are talking around $200 in parts not including labor.
Same for the rear derailleur. Best bet is to find an older rear derailleur from a mountain bike like a Deore. That can handle at least 32 teeth in the rear.
If you want to go new, you don't need to spend a bomb. The cheap Shimano derailleurs are fine (like a Claris). FSA makes square taper 110 bcd cranks that don't cost a lot and will work just fine.
Still you are talking around $200 in parts not including labor.
#14
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Those parts will work great on your road bike. The RD will handle a larger freewheel and you can run the triple crank as a compact double. You'll likely need to buy a 34 110 bcd as an inner but that is easy to source. A seven speed 14-28 freewheel is easy to find; a 14-32 a little harder but they are available. This combination will give you good climbing gears. You could also run your bike with a triple and gain both good climbing gears and a good in between gears for spinning. That's how I fixed up my 1985 Cannondale ST 400. It came with a double and I swapped that out for 48/36/24 triple (a shimano 600/deore XT) and 14-28 7 speed freewheel (relying on a Deore XT rear derailleur).
Last edited by bikemig; 07-30-19 at 09:31 AM.
#15
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Thread Starter
Maybe start with an overall budget and allocate dollars where you're likely to get the best payoff. Here are some estimated direct mail parts prices and where I'd put my money (I'd be doing my own labor, so don't account for that):
1) Tires: $75
2) Brake pads: $20
3) 7-Speed Freewheel: $20
4) Inner stainless drawn cables: $16
5) 8-speed chain: $15
6) SR Apex (non-swaged version) or other from plentiful Japanese smaller BCD crankset w/BB: $55
7) Chainring(s) to suit: $40
If you have to pay for the labor, then add catalog parts prices and markup appropriately for each job.
I'd do 1-5 and then see. That's less than $150.
1) Tires: $75
2) Brake pads: $20
3) 7-Speed Freewheel: $20
4) Inner stainless drawn cables: $16
5) 8-speed chain: $15
6) SR Apex (non-swaged version) or other from plentiful Japanese smaller BCD crankset w/BB: $55
7) Chainring(s) to suit: $40
If you have to pay for the labor, then add catalog parts prices and markup appropriately for each job.
I'd do 1-5 and then see. That's less than $150.
#16
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if you did want to go full bore and modern compact crank here is and idea of what it would take
cold set the frame to 130mm
tiagra 10 speed groupset $375 https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shima...uble-groupset/
think another $100 or so to go to 11 speed 105 level
these are from UK bikes shops Merlin, Ribble, Probike Kit, Chain reaction
8,9,10,11 speeed whels $179 Mavic CXP Elite Shimano 105 5800 Hubs Silver Road Bike Wheelset [640117/640298] - $179.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike
and of course tires and tubes
I find I really really like the 50/34 and 11 to 32/34 cassete with Brifter shifting
cold set the frame to 130mm
tiagra 10 speed groupset $375 https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shima...uble-groupset/
think another $100 or so to go to 11 speed 105 level
these are from UK bikes shops Merlin, Ribble, Probike Kit, Chain reaction
8,9,10,11 speeed whels $179 Mavic CXP Elite Shimano 105 5800 Hubs Silver Road Bike Wheelset [640117/640298] - $179.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike
and of course tires and tubes
I find I really really like the 50/34 and 11 to 32/34 cassete with Brifter shifting
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#17
Senior Member
Here's what I use for serious climbing or hilly terrain:
42/45T circular chainwheels
13-32T freewheel (6 speed)
Ultra 6 chain (or equivalent)
Rear derailleur is Shimano Deore XT but any decent wide range will do the job.
Unsolicited advice -
Forget about STI levers
Get some new, top quality tires like Challenge Parigi-Roubaix or one of the Compass Cycles tire. Yes, they are expensive. Yes, they are really that good.
The saddle has to be comfortable.
42/45T circular chainwheels
13-32T freewheel (6 speed)
Ultra 6 chain (or equivalent)
Rear derailleur is Shimano Deore XT but any decent wide range will do the job.
Unsolicited advice -
Forget about STI levers
Get some new, top quality tires like Challenge Parigi-Roubaix or one of the Compass Cycles tire. Yes, they are expensive. Yes, they are really that good.
The saddle has to be comfortable.
#18
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Go check these guys out:
Cincinnati's Only Bicycle Cooperative | Mobo Bicycle Coop
Bike co-ops are generally staffed by cool bike-geek volunteers who live to talk, advise, and debate all things bike. They are typically stuffed to the gills with donated used bikes and parts for sale cheap; if you're willing to dig through bins of stuff.
Tell them what you have in mind, and they'll have suggestions. Plus they'll have the tools and expert advice to help you get the job done. Typically there's a nominal stand fee.
Cincinnati's Only Bicycle Cooperative | Mobo Bicycle Coop
Bike co-ops are generally staffed by cool bike-geek volunteers who live to talk, advise, and debate all things bike. They are typically stuffed to the gills with donated used bikes and parts for sale cheap; if you're willing to dig through bins of stuff.
Tell them what you have in mind, and they'll have suggestions. Plus they'll have the tools and expert advice to help you get the job done. Typically there's a nominal stand fee.
#19
Newbie
Thread Starter
Go check these guys out:
Bike co-ops are generally staffed by cool bike-geek volunteers who live to talk, advise, and debate all things bike. They are typically stuffed to the gills with donated used bikes and parts for sale cheap; if you're willing to dig through bins of stuff.
Tell them what you have in mind, and they'll have suggestions. Plus they'll have the tools and expert advice to help you get the job done. Typically there's a nominal stand fee.
Bike co-ops are generally staffed by cool bike-geek volunteers who live to talk, advise, and debate all things bike. They are typically stuffed to the gills with donated used bikes and parts for sale cheap; if you're willing to dig through bins of stuff.
Tell them what you have in mind, and they'll have suggestions. Plus they'll have the tools and expert advice to help you get the job done. Typically there's a nominal stand fee.
#20
Newbie
Thread Starter
Hit the road this evening for about 10 miles with some decent hills (for someone out of shape anyway). I definitely struggled on the hills due to fitness and the lack of a climbing gear.
I had always pumped my tires to about 110 psi, but dropped them to about 95 psi after learning that higher isn't necessarily better. What an improvement in the ride! All my looking at gearing pretty much informed me that I knew nothing about bike gears and shifting. In fact, I was pretty much using the front chain rings all wrong. Understanding the gearing and overlaps made me a bit more efficient in my use of the gears. I still need a lot more saddle time, but it's a start.
I have been refining my bike upgrade plan. I'm going to try and bite it off in a phased approach:
Phase 1 - Improve general rideability and safety
I had always pumped my tires to about 110 psi, but dropped them to about 95 psi after learning that higher isn't necessarily better. What an improvement in the ride! All my looking at gearing pretty much informed me that I knew nothing about bike gears and shifting. In fact, I was pretty much using the front chain rings all wrong. Understanding the gearing and overlaps made me a bit more efficient in my use of the gears. I still need a lot more saddle time, but it's a start.
I have been refining my bike upgrade plan. I'm going to try and bite it off in a phased approach:
Phase 1 - Improve general rideability and safety
- Replace brake pads with Kool Stop with brackets, X pads and salmon pads
- Swap out 6 Speed Freewheel with SHIMANO 7-Speed Tourney Bicycle Freewheel - MF-HG37 (13/28T)
- Use existing downtube shifter in friction mode, or swap out for 7 speed SIS if can source used for reasonable price
- Replace current UG chaing with Shimano HG71 6/7/8 speed chain
- Replace cables, bar tape, tune-up bike & adjust fit
- Add rear and front lights to improve visibility on roads - any budget but good reco's?
- Install new tires - either Continental GP4000S II or Vittoria Rubino Pro Clincher (budget option) in 25C size - $25-70
- Replace crankset with compact crank
- New pedals & shoes
#21
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Thread Starter
Is it possible to use an 8+ speed SIS shifter with a 7-spd freewheel? If so are their any drawbacks? Selection and availability of 7-spd shifters seams limited.
#22
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You'll have fewer issues if you keep components on the same gearing, 8 speed shifters with a 7 speed FW is too many clicks.
I have been using these lights and find them to be good and with the usb easy to recharge - under $20 and easy to mount. I would echo @jcb3 keep riding and you may find you don't need a complete overhaul you need a wider range FW and a smaller chain ring. Shimano has mega range FW in 6 and 7 speed that go to 34t you just have to be sure your RD can handle it, the XT RD probably can. Have fun.
I have been using these lights and find them to be good and with the usb easy to recharge - under $20 and easy to mount. I would echo @jcb3 keep riding and you may find you don't need a complete overhaul you need a wider range FW and a smaller chain ring. Shimano has mega range FW in 6 and 7 speed that go to 34t you just have to be sure your RD can handle it, the XT RD probably can. Have fun.
#23
Newbie
Thread Starter
You'll have fewer issues if you keep components on the same gearing, 8 speed shifters with a 7 speed FW is too many clicks.
I have been using these lights and find them to be good and with the usb easy to recharge - under $20 and easy to mount. I would echo @jcb3 keep riding and you may find you don't need a complete overhaul you need a wider range FW and a smaller chain ring. Shimano has mega range FW in 6 and 7 speed that go to 34t you just have to be sure your RD can handle it, the XT RD probably can. Have fun.
I have been using these lights and find them to be good and with the usb easy to recharge - under $20 and easy to mount. I would echo @jcb3 keep riding and you may find you don't need a complete overhaul you need a wider range FW and a smaller chain ring. Shimano has mega range FW in 6 and 7 speed that go to 34t you just have to be sure your RD can handle it, the XT RD probably can. Have fun.
I'm hoping a little more range in the rear, a good bike tune/fit and some more miles will solve some of my issues. Worst case is that I at least will have something performing close to new to establish a good baseline.
#24
Newbie
Thread Starter
Parts are ordered. Here's where I'm at:
Improve general rideability and roadworthiness $178.33
Improve general rideability and roadworthiness $178.33
- New brake pads $37.94
- - Kool Stop with brackets, X pads and salmon pads
- 7 Speed freewheel conversion $80.39
- SHIMANO 7-Speed Tourney Bicycle Freewheel - MF-HG37 (13/28T) $18.99
- Shimano 105 7 speed SIS (preowned) $39.40
- Shimano HG71 6/7/8 speed chain $22.00
- New bar tape $19.95
- Zipp Service Course CX
- Labor to replace cables (cables & housings included), bar tape, tune-up bike & adjust fit $60
- Lighting $81.77
- Cygolite Metro Plus 800 + Hotshot Pro 150 Bike Head & Tail Light Combo Set USB -$66.82
- Planet Bike Bottle Blinky 3061 Bicycle Side Safety Light $14.95
- Mirror $14.84
- Bike Peddler Take A Look Cycling Eyeglass Mirror (Original)
#25
Newbie
Thread Starter
And now that I have 10 posts, here's a pic of the bike I snapped on vacation last week.
Celo Europa
Celo Europa
Likes For Mr_Stop: