mr_bill

Where do you ride? NEVER ONCE?

I've been in traffic jams caused by people in motor vehicles, traffic jams caused by people on bicycles, and traffic jams caused by people on foot.

-mr. bill

KraneXL

I don't post exaggerations or make things up. If I say never then you can bet your last dollar that is the truth.

Traffic jams miles long where you move 10 feet in 30 minutes. Street events, fairs, parades etc. where there are literally wall to wall people. But I've never been in a cycling event with so many cyclist that I couldn't move around freely anytime I wanted.

mr_bill

"Cycling event" - that's funny. Where do you ride?

-mr. bill

livedarklions

You want a stretch of the Minuteman where you can really open it up? Go to the Bedford end. There's about 3 miles down there where it's nearly nothing but cyclists until about 1/4 mile from the old station.
As for getting flipped off on Mass. Ave., don't take it personally, there's jerks everywhere. But if I have a choice between riding on Mass. Ave, vs. the Minuteman, I'm going faster on the Minuteman any day I think you're just as likely to hit a pedestrian on that part of Mass. Ave as you are on the Minuteman, plus cars, car doors, etc.

Daniel4

Well, in Toronto we have Bike-to-Work day, Coldest-Ride-of-the-Year, and Becel Ride-for-Heart. All are on city streets and a couple of highways. I've never experienced any traffic jams on those either.

But when there are pedestrians involved, yeah there are traffic jams. That's because bikes are for getting somewhere. Pedestrians are already there.

mr_bill

How do the pedestrians get to the "already there?" Floo powder?

My feet were made for walkin'.

-mr. bill

genec

I doubt they would answer "what tractor?" And that is sometimes the answer I do get when I ask about the cyclists... "what cyclist... Oh."

Daniel4

What do drivers do when they've reached their destination? Get out and walk - become pedestrians. If they still need to get where they're going, it's usually called the last mile.

mr_bill

rydabent

I do most of my riding on MUPs. I am not so egotistical that I think EVERYONE else should get out of my way.

KraneXL

Does that mean they can get IN the way?

mr_bill

Joe Bikerider

livedarklions

I just rode on a MUP in Malden, MA I would consider a failure based on the one time I've ridden it. There was almost literally no one on it, it was beautifully paved, you could go as fast as you wanted on stretches of it, but it sat empty. Why?

Well, it appears to be an old rail line that essentially threads between fenced off parking lots. No one would likely want to walk it because there's nothing pleasant about it, and it just parallels streets with perfectly good sidewalks. On the other hand, I found it was a terrible ride for bicycles because of the way it crossed two main thoroughfares about 50 feet away from the intersection--these crossings were placed just about perfectly to get hit by a turning car who wouldn't be looking for a cyclist at that location. Having made those crossings because I didn't want to check a map to figure out the parallel streets, I can say with confidence I would never choose to do so again.

Now I could be wrong, maybe there are times when people are using this path a lot, but this was late morning Saturday, which is usually a pretty busy time on an urban MUP, and I may have seen two other riders in a few miles.

Failure of a MUP doesn't occur because too many people are using it, it occurs when nobody wants to use it. I rode on a fairly crowded Minuteman later that same day, and I was quite happy to slow down where the path goes through downtown Arlington and Lexington, and ride like a bat out of hell on other sections.

KraneXL

Do you think the pedestrian would behave any different if it were? You missed the point.

Leebo

Maybe its that CA thing and So CA attitude. Or maybe you just are overcrowded. Lots of places have MUP's that work, MA for one. Walkers right, bikes pass on the left, a little courtesy, passing left shout or bell works fine. Just what you have pedaled is not how it is everywhere.

Clyde1820

Two main reasons come to my mind as to why a roadway or path doesn't work well for travelers: poor design, and/or user error.

On MUPs, I normally see a variety of people who are utterly, blissfully, even recklessly, unaware that others are attempting legitimate use of that same stretch of path. A good number of pedestrians act as though nobody else is going to come along at greater than walking speed, or they'll take up the full width of the path and effectively block use by anyone else. A good number of riders of other modes of transportation (bikes, boards) will also meander around on the path in a manner oblivious to others coming along at different speeds.

Above and beyond whatever design characteristics contribute, such as when they cross or come near roadways with motorized vehicles, or cross zones with large numbers of pedestrians.

The "user error" issue can be easily solved, one participant at a time. Of course, that'd take a bit of thinking, a bit of inconvenience, and a bit of sharing on the part of all who use such paths. In my experience, while the great percentage of all who use such paths are pretty good about it, there's a percentage who likely never will be.

And so, for me, when I use the local MUPs I tend to go along at a fairly safe speed differential, tend to stay more-or-less glued to the RH side of the path (until it's time to pass someone), and tend to telegraph my intended moves far in advance. It's been decades since I've had a mishap on a MUP ... that being an incident in which a pedestrian was oblivious to the fact of crossing a MUP with oncoming traffic flow. (I was the nearest "traffic flow" ... and went down because of it.)

All things considered, I prefer MUPs to motor vehicle roadways. I'd rather tangle with a hesitant pedestrian than a car with blind spots that's ~4K pounds heavier than I.

mr_bill

I believe he pedals a Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014.

I'm thinking of getting a bakfiet and selling flowers from it part time.
I'll be known as the pedaling petal peddler.

-mr. bill

Daniel4

My 20.6 km, 1hr 15min MUP route to downtown Toronto is 16.2 km in 1hr using streets some with bike lanes.

Secondly, the hills on the city streets aren't as dramatic as the hills on the MUPs.

Thirdly, according to my cycling app calories burned using the MUP route is 433.9 vs 294.6 through city streets.

GrainBrain

Same here, the two miles outside a town are usually populated with joggers, families, dog walkers etc. Takes about six minutes to get through this courteously then hammer droppin time to the next town. Love our rails to trails program.

Paul Barnard

That's my take. Encountering oblivious users is part of it. You nailed it when you mentioned the speed differential. I bring it down to a bare minimum when I pass any other user. Thankfully we have really long MUPs where we can get away from most other users.

daihard 

In my observation, those honourable titles are given to people who ride dangerously. I have zero problem with those who ride at, say, 20 MPH but call out and give me enough space when passing. OTOH, Burke-Gilman trail, which I use regularly to commute, is full of riders who pass others on bike and people on foot very closely without using a bell or calling out. Those people should be made to feel less welcome.

KraneXL

Hoopdriver

Man, let it go! If you don't like MUPs, stay away from them. Your insistence on bending folks to your own opinion is getting rather boring.

livedarklions

Generally, I see this much more on dedicated bike lanes on streets than I do on MUPs. Pedestrians on streets are so fixated on avoiding cars that they don't take bikes into account. And if you're saying pedestrians are going to act the same way that they do on a dedicated bike path when they're on a MUP, how is that an argument for dedicated bike lanes?