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pedestrians

Old 03-18-15, 11:41 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by oldnslow2 View Post
At 20mph i'll be past them before I finish. And if I start sooner they'll miss the beginning.

I just stay off the MUP during late morning and afternoon hours.
sort of why you should NOT be doing 20 mph on a MUT/MUP.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:41 AM
  #27  
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Enjoy your really long ride. Don't forget the water bottle and some munchies.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:43 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by justblues View Post
actually, I very much enjoyed interacting with many of the other people on the .......give me a little more learning time before criticizing too much.
So sorry... I didn't mean to sound critial. I like the paths! But I also like the streets and roads. I try to construct my ride around how I feel or what I feel up to.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:48 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
So sorry... I didn't mean to sound critial. I like the paths! But I also like the streets and roads. I try to construct my ride around how I feel or what I feel up to.
I am still learning what is involved with the different options. My town for the most part is not very bicycle friendly. Neighborhood riding is usually safe, but my particular neighborhood is small and there are too many stop signs as I go around it to really enjoy it. There is a nearby neighborhood with a nice long loop that has a traffic circle instead of a stop sign and the drivers seem to be used to bicycles so I have enjoyed riding there some. I was just looking for something different. Next time I will have a better idea what I am getting into. I am looking forward to going on a long (for me) ride on the nearby Army base this weekend. From what I have heard, it is the ideal place to ride on the street in the evenings and on the weekends. I work there so I have access.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:52 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by justblues View Post
I am still learning what is involved with the different options. My town for the most part is not very bicycle friendly. Neighborhood riding is usually safe, but my particular neighborhood is small and there are too many stop signs as I go around it to really enjoy it. There is a nearby neighborhood with a nice long loop that has a traffic circle instead of a stop sign and the drivers seem to be used to bicycles so I have enjoyed riding there some. I was just looking for something different. Next time I will have a better idea what I am getting into. I am looking forward to going on a long (for me) ride on the nearby Army base this weekend. From what I have heard, it is the ideal place to ride on the street in the evenings and on the weekends. I work there so I have access.
Others in your area have faced this problem and figured out solutions. Get on one of the mapping social media sites such as mapmyride or ridewithgps. You'll be able to see the routes that others in your area are riding.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:59 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by justblues View Post
........I am looking forward to going on a long (for me) ride on the nearby Army base this weekend.......... I work there so I have access.
Oh.... I may understand better now. I am retired from military and a large A.F. base. Yeah... civilians don't take the rules as seriously as they do on base.
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Old 03-18-15, 11:59 AM
  #32  
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Never expect pedestrians to follow rules. They just can't do it. That's one of many reasons why I don't use MUPs and believe that a MUP is preferable only when there's no roads at all. But if you're gonna use them...

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Old 03-18-15, 12:13 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Others in your area have faced this problem and figured out solutions. Get on one of the mapping social media sites such as mapmyride or ridewithgps. You'll be able to see the routes that others in your area are riding.
Certainly excellent advice. I tend to enjoy figuring stuff out on my own but I am aware of the limitations of that approach. I do plan on interacting with local bicyclists at some point soon. In fact, I plan on going on some group rides at least partly to get to know some in the area. I am waiting until I get out of the neck brace first, though. Right now everyone I meet just wants to know "what happened to you?" Friday is the day if everything checks out ok. That's one reason why I wanted to do a long (for me) ride this weekend. I'll be newly out of the brace and cleared for all action.
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Old 03-18-15, 01:03 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by justblues View Post
Ok, I didn't know that I was going to cause any controversy or raise any ire, but I should know that things can be misinterpreted on the internet. I feel that some have misinterpreted my posts so I will make clarification. If you still want to throw darts, well I don't mind being criticized as long as it is clear what I am being criticized about.

When I read about the greenway online, seeing that one side of the path was marked for bicycles and one side was marked for pedestrians, I did think that for the most part people would honor those markings. I learned differently when I was there. It sounds like many of you have learned that lesson in the past.

I did go there to enjoy scenery AND to have a paved surface where I didn't have to worry about cars. I did not plan on blasting around to see how fast I could go, nor did I do so. Even if a path is "bicycle only", I would imagine that there would be bicyclists of all ages, capabilities and speeds. I did plan on keeping moving for the most part and to be honest, for the most part I did. I did have to go off-road some to keep moving and I did have to slow to the minimum speed in order to keep the bicycle upright at times.

There were a few stretches that were straight and where there was high visibility where I did go as fast as I could because there was no one ahead of me. I always reached for the brakes well before entering a bend, topping a hill or reaching other people going in either direction. My comment on pace was not an indication that I went to see how fast I could do the path. Quite frankly, I consider myself a newby to bicycling. I rode a lot as a kid with friends like most kids do. There was one period many years ago when my kids were little that I went to an LBS and bought a bicycle and rode in the neighborhood with my kids. Time passed and I got rid of that bicycle. I have just been back into bicycling for about a week and I had no idea what to expect. I have always worked hard to keep in shape, but with recent spinal issues I have decided that bicycling is the best way to maintain that conditioning going forward. I had no idea what to expect from myself as far as pacing. I did not go to the greenway with the purpose of seeing how fast I could go, but I did note what time I started, how many passes I made and what time I stopped and calculate my average pace after I got home. I am just trying to learn what to expect as I start this new hobby. I made that comment because I was surprised that despite the many obstacles, and being supremely cautious anywhere near those obstacles, the average pace was what I would have guessed before starting would be a maximum pace on my best day. I guarantee you that none of the walkers, runners or other bicyclists thought of me as "that guy" that was endangering everyone else.

Changing topics, I'm hoping to go on my first really long (for me) ride this Saturday. The weather looks to be good. I am just outside a military base and the end of the base where I live is essentially abandoned after hours and on weekends. It is all office buildings and far away from the troop and residential areas. A lot of people ride there. I am hoping that my bicycle computer that I ordered will be in before then and if so I'll really be paying attention to pacing.
Yeah, OK. We get that you are learning and that you are careful. Given your recent health history, I'm sure that you are extra careful. But once you talk about how quickly you got 6 times round the trail, all things considered, there's this temptation to try to do it a little faster next time, and that's where judgement can get clouded.

I'm sure you have many years of enjoyable and safe riding ahead of you. Welcome.
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Old 03-18-15, 01:09 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Yeah, OK. We get that you are learning and that you are careful. Given your recent health history, I'm sure that you are extra careful. But once you talk about how quickly you got 6 times round the trail, all things considered, there's this temptation to try to do it a little faster next time, and that's where judgement can get clouded.

I'm sure you have many years of enjoyable and safe riding ahead of you. Welcome.
I believe that any more time spent on the greenway will be walking so there won't be a next time. It is beautiful but I think that I will enjoy it more at an even slower pace than the most leisurely of bike rides. I do want to see what kind of pace I can achieve safely on the roads, however.
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Old 03-18-15, 01:39 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
This is great advice. Also, I hate when (on the road) cars pass me in tight spots, pass me just so they don't have to slow down for a second while they check for oncoming traffic, pass me right before a stop sign and then take away my lane. I try to remember that when I'm passing pedestrians on the path.

My path to work in the morning is well-used; and there are a few clueless users on foot, on bikes, on skateboards, etc. Still works pretty well.

https://vimeo.com/105974829
Concerning the bolded text, both are a moving violations in VA. Doubt it's enforced much or at all, but it is part of the law.

Also, love the Dylan music to the vid.
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Old 03-18-15, 01:53 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Bikey Mikey View Post
Concerning the bolded text, both are a moving violations in VA. Doubt it's enforced much or at all, but it is part of the law.

Also, love the Dylan music to the vid.
<Dylan fan fist bump>

Yeah moving violations... not so dangerous, just rude and indicative of someone who doesn't think about sharing the road with non motorized traffic. That's why my objective on the trail is to have safe and courteous interactions - because it really isn't a big deal to slow down once in a while and pass when there's plenty of room.
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Old 03-18-15, 02:43 PM
  #38  
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Try a bike bell.

+1 to Blazing Pedals.

Yes, I know it adds weight. I know you have to move your hand to access it. No one uses one in the Tour de France. You can't always mount it where you want to. It's a bit geeky. And it's redundant to simply calling out "on your left", or "on your other left!", or worse.

BUT, people recognize the sound of one, even from a distance, and do tend to move out of your way. (Not always though, so plan accordingly.)

Last edited by TomJD; 03-18-15 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 03-18-15, 02:57 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
It's like you're singing my song.

Yes, it is irritating when pedestrians ignore plainly marked lines delineating space designated for bikes and space designated for pedestrians. I can understand that when there are two pedestrians walking abreast, but when there is only one? Just as bad are the ones that walk directly down the center of the path (no kidding), and do so with headphones blaring so they can't possibly hear anyone coming (affectionately referred to hereabouts as bike path zombies).

I've come to the conclusion that the people that do that fit into one of two categories: (1) the ignorant (2) the arrogant. I think the ignorant fall prey to the malady affecting all humans (including cyclists) ... they aren't very good at considering others, particularly when the "others" aren't doing what they are doing. That's why a lot of motorists give cyclists a hard time, and consider pedestrians a nuisance ... why cyclists consider pedestrians a nuisance ... and why pedestrians consider both motorists and cyclists a menace. The arrogant ... well ... they're just ***holes.

I have dreams of a utopian world where the LEOs actually enforce the rules. Maybe even just once a year. I actually asked a LEO why they don't enforce the rules (he had complimented me on the fact that I actually got off and walked when signage demanded it), and he professed ignorance. Apparently, he wasn't sure "Bikes Only" really meant bikes only, even though he was clear what the sign "Walk Bikes" meant.

But the bottom line is that it is like the wild west out there. People can be and often are clueless (and that includes the helmetless yahoos I see daily strand cruising in their flip-flops on the wrong side of the street or bike path, staring a their cellphone). And that is not going to change, even if the LEOs had had the gumption to enforce the rules.

So if you're going to ride on the bike paths (and it doesn't matter that they are not MUPs ... most don't understand or care to understand the distinction), you have to press your chill button ... and sometimes hold it down ... and expect the unexpected.


An excellent posting. Besides arrogant, I'd like to add one: "Confrontational". The greater Boston area is full of these. They can be on the MUPs, but they also seem to enjoy
just crossing a busy roadway without even checking for anything. They'll step right in front of anything, be it a bicyclist, or motor vehicle of any variety, including huge 18 wheelers.
Some of these have the interesting attitude of "If anyone hits me, I'll sue and get a whole lot of money!" More likely, a settlement from the motorist's insurance, but that is another matter.

Cambridge Peds are probably the worst. Watch for them on any stretch of Mass ave, especially around the area of Harvard Square. If you come to close to one, they are likely to shriek something about their rights. Or something.

On the MUPs, I find my bell generally works. If not, whistling the theme to the Andy Griffith Show seems to do the trick.
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Old 03-18-15, 03:02 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by spdracr39 View Post
Treat pedestrians like you would want to be treated by cars. they are entry level users and don't understand the rules.
+1!

Additionally, I irritated by fellow bikers that pass silently or aggressively on these MUPs. Two stories from this month:

First nice weather of spring, melting snow, but refreeze under bridges. We are riding the Midtown Greenway in Minneapolis, going under a bridge there is a big patch of water/ice in the middle of the MUP. Wife goes around to the right side of the ice/puddle and I go to the left side. And I get repeated, angry "PASSING ON YOUR LEFT!!". Dude, I'm not hitting the ice just so you can keep your epic pace of 16 mph (no lie, he slowly pulled ahead of us)

Last weekend we are riding the popular Dakota Trail West of Minneapolis. Lots of foot traffic and bikes. We are overtaking a couple, I'm start to move left as I'm announcing my pass and a woman is overtaking me silently. She's damn lucky I checked my shoulder or she'd been sent to the ditch.
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Old 03-18-15, 03:04 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I ride a road bike. It's a vehicle. I ride it on the road.
True Dat !

I ride a mountain bike, It's a vehicle. I ride it fastest on ONE WAY single track that's almost Impossible to walk on...
I stay off the hiking trails and expect hikers to do the same.

On the mups, paved or in the woods I keep my speed in check making sure I can stop in the distance I can see..
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Old 03-18-15, 03:49 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
+1!

First nice weather of spring, melting snow, but refreeze under bridges. We are riding the Midtown Greenway in Minneapolis, going under a bridge there is a big patch of water/ice in the middle of the MUP. Wife goes around to the right side of the ice/puddle and I go to the left side. And I get repeated, angry "PASSING ON YOUR LEFT!!". Dude, I'm not hitting the ice just so you can keep your epic pace of 16 mph (no lie, he slowly pulled ahead of us)

Last weekend we are riding the popular Dakota Trail West of Minneapolis. Lots of foot traffic and bikes. We are overtaking a couple, I'm start to move left as I'm announcing my pass and a woman is overtaking me silently. She's damn lucky I checked my shoulder or she'd been sent to the ditch.
I ride both of those trails. The Midtown Greenway is the aorta of Twin Cities bike transportation and I love that it is there. In fact, i'll probably be on it for my evening ride later. But I avoid it on busy weekends - too much traffic, too many dangerous situations.

I also ride the Grand Rounds trails around the W. Minneapolis lakes, and that's where you've got to have patience. There are separate walking and biking paths, but the pedestrians don't seem to know the difference. I spent years being annoyed by those people, but now I just accept that as the status quo. If I want to ride fast, I head further west where the trails are empty or get off the trails and on to the streets.
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Old 03-18-15, 04:23 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
There are separate walking and biking paths, but the pedestrians don't seem to know the difference. I spent years being annoyed by those people, but now I just accept that as the status quo.
+1 That's the serenity prayer, right there. This is one of those things you can't change.
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Old 03-18-15, 04:58 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by TomJD View Post
+1 to Blazing Pedals.

Yes, I know it adds weight. I know you have to move your hand to access it. No one uses one in the Tour de France. You can't always mount it where you want to. It's a bit geeky. And it's redundant to simply calling out "on your left", or "on your other left!", or worse.

BUT, people recognize the sound of one, even from a distance, and do tend to move out of your way. (Not always though, so plan accordingly.)
This must be a local, or maybe regional phenomenon, In the areas I ride bells are unusual. As a matter of fact the first time I heard a bell I hadn't the foggiest what it meant. Then I discovered, for many cyclists, it meant I was supposed to get out of their way. A few of those and I reacted like most any other human.

Since then I've watched others in a variety of places I ride. Bells are not often used. They seem to be even less often heard. For most cyclists they seem to be a command to move rather than, properly, a notification of presence and a request to move.

Most of us when driving safely in our motor vehicles can go months, if not years, without using a noise maker. I believe a cyclist who has a safety attitude can do the same.
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Old 03-18-15, 05:32 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by justblues View Post
I thought that car drivers were inattentive when it came to bicycles, but that's nothing compared to pedestrians. There is a greenway with a paved bike path near my home. There is a clearly marked walking lane and a clearly marked bicycle lane. Guess where the walkers prefer to walk?...I managed to not injure anyone yesterday but there were some close calls. Fortunately, I was on a hybrid so I could go off road when needed to avoid pedestrians.

Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
It's like you're singing my song.

Yes, it is irritating when pedestrians ignore plainly marked lines delineating space designated for bikes and space designated for pedestrians….I've come to the conclusion that the people that do that fit into one of two categories: (1) the ignorant (2) the arrogant. I think the ignorant fall prey to the malady affecting all humans (including cyclists) ... they aren't very good at considering others, particularly when the "others" aren't doing what they are doing. That's why a lot of motorists give cyclists a hard time, and consider pedestrians a nuisance ... why cyclists consider pedestrians a nuisance ... and why pedestrians consider both motorists and cyclists a menace. The arrogant ... well ... they're just ***holes…

So if you're going to ride on the bike paths (and it doesn't matter that they are not MUPs ... most don't understand or care to understand the distinction), you have to press your chill button ... and sometimes hold it down ... and expect the unexpected.

Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
There are places hereabouts where the bike paths are preferable for a number of reasons:

1. Faster transit (no stop signs).
2. Alternative roads are bike unfriendly (high volume of high speed traffic, little shoulder and bad sightlines)
3. Better views.
I have the advantage to take or leave the Bike Paths (or MUPS), and usually the Road is preferable. With that said, I think the above quotes express a remarkable ME FIRST attitude, especially on the usually congenial and mellow Fifty-Plus sub forum.

Originally Posted by spdracr39 View Post
Treat pedestrians like you would want to be treated by cars. they are entry level users and don't understand the rules.

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I ride a road bike. It's a vehicle. I ride it on the road.
From a recent parallel thread on the Commuter sub forum, "how do you alert your presence to other pedestrians/cyclists/motorists?":

Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Not saying this is a legal definition (so let's not argue the point) but I consider MUPs to be pedestrian paths on which bicycles and other wheeled users are welcome.

The definition is handy because, while it doesn't change anything, it does affect my outlook and lower my expectations regarding pedestrian conduct. I announce my presence as a courtesy, and hope they'll respond by moving over, but I don't get upset or rattled it they don't, and will go around them on the lawn if necessary.

…It's not ideal if I'm trying to make time, but is very workable, and if I want to go faster, I use the roads.

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I once violated a ped's space (on the street), and went back and apologized. Afterwards I wrote my cyclist's golden rule, and later wrote a corollary:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I have a golden rule of cycling, “Do unto the peds, as you would have the cagers do unto you.” So while peds should be more alert, walking on a MUP is a pretty carefree activity, whereas cycling demands more attention, and cyclists IMO, are possibly more vulnerable in a crash.

The ability of a cyclist to do damage in a crash I would say is intermediate between that of a ped and an automobile, but I think a cyclists’s own safety demands that he/she be the most attentive of the three, and frankly assume the others are jerks.
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Old 03-18-15, 05:39 PM
  #46  
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I've been using bells for at least a decade, I think. Recently using the ding-dong more frequently than 'on your left' for overtaking other cyclists. Indiana law actually specifies a '....bell or other audible device...' for all cyclists. (Not that most pay any attention to this law) A bell alerts others, whether on bike or foot, that I'm in their vicinity.
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Old 03-18-15, 05:59 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I have the advantage to take or leave the Bike Paths (or MUPS), and usually the Road is preferable. With that said, I think the above quotes express a remarkable ME FIRST attitude, especially on the usually congenial and mellow Fifty-Plus sub forum.
It's a ME FIRST attitude to expect pedestrians to stay off of routes designated "Bikes Only" ... especially when there is an adjacent route expressly designated for pedestrians?

We're going to have to disagree on that. I prefer to chalk it up to general cluelessness on the part of pedestrians (of which I am sometimes guilty myself), but if there is a ME FIRST attitude at issue, it would be on the part of pedestrians who know are not where they are supposed to be and do it anyway.

That being said ... as I said in more words earlier ... it is what it is, so it's best to press the chill button and deal with it. It isn't going to change.
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Old 03-18-15, 07:48 PM
  #48  
Daniel4
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I hate riding on recreational trails for recreation. I commute on one but that’s ok because it’s early in the morning or just after work so there are very few pedestrians. If it’s a sunny day on the weekend and I go for a fun ride I stay on the street.

Toronto’s former Mayor, Rob Ford hated bicycles. So when the subject of bicycle lanes came up, he would proposed recreational paths.
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Old 03-18-15, 08:09 PM
  #49  
Doug64
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Originally Posted by oldnslow2 View Post
At 20mph i'll be past them before I finish. And if I start sooner they'll miss the beginning.

I just stay off the MUP during late morning and afternoon hours.
Why are you going 20 mph on a MUP?
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Old 03-18-15, 08:12 PM
  #50  
GlennR
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
Why are you going 20 mph on a MUP?
Because i can and only go that fast when there's no one on the path. Most times i'm on the road where its safer.
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