ticwanos

After a nearly 2 year layoff from riding which included 2 surgeries and accompanying recovery, I started back on the bike about a month ago. No surprise, but I've lost a good deal of my "wind" in the interim. Except for being generally out of shape, (gained 20+pounds and lost muscle strength from inactivity) I have no outstanding health concerns at the moment and take no meds, so I consider myself fortunate. But, I struggle, (and fail) to conquer hills I once could manage. The problem has less to do with muscle power and more to do with not getting enough oxygen. What do you think are the best practices and exercises to rebuild aerobic stamina? I don't know if this is relevant or not, but I am 66 and have always ridden vintage steel. Suggestions?

digibud

Ride as hard and as long as you can. If there is a "secret", it would be doing High Intensity Interval Training. The book "The First 20 Minutes" gives good background on why doing short high intensity sprints will help your overall fitness better than longer slow rides. There was a time when LSD rides (long slow distance) were recommended for aerobic training but that's been shown to not be as good as high intensity training. If you are looking to build stamina in terms of time on the bike then time on the bike is what you need to do but my best suggestion is at the end of each ride do a series of HIIT sprints. They aren't supposed to be fun and you don't want to do them at the beginning or middle of a ride because when done correctly you should be totally shot. It makes no difference what bike you ride for fitness training. Put out whatever watts you can for whatever time you can. Just go faster on some bikes.

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by ticwanos

After a nearly 2year layoff from riding which included 2 surgeries and accompanying recovery, I started back on the bike about a month ago. No surprise, but I've lost a good deal of my "wind" in the interim...But, I struggle, (and fail) to conquer hills I once could manage. The problem has less to do with muscle power and more to do with not getting enough oxygen.Suggestions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by digibud

Ride as hard and as long as you can. If there is a "secret", it would be doing High Intensity Interval Training. The book "The First 20 Minutes" gives good background on why doing short high intensity sprintswill help your overall fitness better than longer slow rides. There was a time when LSD rides (long slow distance) were recommended for aerobic training but that's been shown to not be as good as high intensity training...They aren't supposed to be fun and you don't want to do them at the beginning or middle of a ride because when done correctly you should be totally shot..... Put out whatever watts you can for whatever time you can..

@digibud presents what I think is the accepted scientific basis of training. I myself am of the same age as the OP, and in 2012 I was in a serious accident with six weeks hospitalization, three months off work, and five months off the bike, and I was a decades-long lifestyle cyclist. Over the last couple years, I have developed for myself a training program based on Relative Perceived Exertion (RPE).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

...last year I developed for myself my “Time-restricted,PersonallyAmbitious, but Non-competitive Cyclist Training Routine.,”as discussed on this Fifty-Plus thread, “Riding versus Training” (also with other good training tips).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

About two weeks ago I described a new training routine for myself combining a well-established Ten Week Century TrainingSchedule of daily mileage goals with a personalized intensity scale based on ”Relative Perceived Exertion (RPE).” My basic premise was that I wanted to get significantly fit, within a busy work/family time-crunched life, but not suffer so much that I would abandon the program.

I do have the advantages of a very nice minimum 14 mile one way commute that is easily extended; and a high end, very comfortable carbon fiber road bike that encourages riding…

I’m still riding it, and enjoying more than ever.

FYA, follow the links for further detail, including a description of RPE. FWIW, my resting heart rate is 48 bpm, sometimes lower.

texaspandj

Although true you will get better faster by going faster and thereby increasing your aerobic capacity, you're setting yourself up for injury if you don't put in the miles to strengthen your muscles,tendons,ligaments first.

donheff

From everything I have read a few brief all out sprints with longer intervals of modest cycling (HIIT) will give you the best results for cardio fitness. I do this frequently and don't see much danger in it. After that it becomes a matter of what you want to be able to do. Practice that. If you want to be able to take long bike rides you need to take long bike rides. If you want to walk long distances (particularly climbing) you need to walk. There may be some cross over from one exercise to another (endurance biking to endurance hiking and vice versus) but not as much as you might expect. Different exercises use different muscles and practice makes perfect. I like to take 25-30 mile bike rides on vacations and for relaxation at home so that is what I practice. I used to push it for longer rides (60+ miles) but found that I didn't really enjoy those so I scaled back to what I enjoy.

deapee

Honestly, (and yes I'm a bit younger than you), but just ride more. Don't worry about intervals or anything, just ride and your fitness will come back.

BluesDawg

Take Eddy Merckx's advice, "ride lots".

StanSeven

Go easy at first and rebuild an acerbic baseline. Make all your rides at a comfortable pace and distance until you aren't winded. Then you can concentrate on going faster. Do whatever speed workouts you like and notice they cause improvements whether they are structured intervals, just going fast in spurts, riding with groups, or some training plan you found or modified.

The latest evidence says don't forget a long ride every seven to ten days. So combine that with a few speed days each week.

bikemig 

I do intervals but they're not my favorite. I like doing hills, though; find some steep ones and do repeats.

Biker395 

In my experience, intervals at altitude.

TimothyH

This is a wise post.

Doing away with base training in favor of higher intensity workouts is not a concept that has been universally accepted or advised.

bikemig 

The old rule of thumb, at least that was what I was taught when I first started racing, was to do the first 1,000 miles in the small chainring. It's always good to start the season with base mileage before doing hard workouts.

deapee

I already posted, but I want to reiterate what I think getting back on the bike or just getting on the bike should be..

6-8 weeks of just getting on the bike.
6 weeks building base, with some group rides thrown in if that's your cup of tea (this will cover interval-like riding and push your limits 1-2 times a week).
Then, and only then, should you consider intervals.

ticwanos

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. I've now got lots of good ideas and great places to research. By my nature I am a grinder, and spend most of my time on the large chain ring, thinking I am building up strength by doing so. I think it is time to give the small ring a chance, since I have no desire to blow out my knees (among other things). It has been a long time since I have done more than lurk on this site, but your responses have reminded me how much I love this forum. Thanks again.

dim

this is what has/is working for me ....

lots of high insensity segments (ride as fast as you can on some segments)

do lots of moderate/fast rides at steady pace

do medium pace for long distance to build up stamina

get a cadence computer, and try and cycle above 80 rpm for most of the way

every 2nd day, use a smaller cog on the back, so that you grind and build leg muscles

so, in a nutshell, you need to mix things up

kevindsingleton 

I agree with all the posts that say to just get out and ride. Any program you try to use won't take into account YOUR specific conditioning and needs. Just ride, and try to ride faster, harder, longer, every time you go. If you're not feeling it, just take it easy. If you're looking for the quickest way to get "Tour fast", then you need a trainer who can assess your conditioning, and work with you. If what you really want is to regain your stamina, and reduce the heavy breathing and feeling like you're gonna die: just ride your bike! Garland has plenty of hills to keep you working. I know; I was born there!

There. I got to say "faster, harder, longer" and "heavy breathing" without getting popped by the censors!

DiabloScott

Intervals.

Bandera

The Old School method when a rider was just starting out (or again) in cycling (at any age) was to make sure that sufficient Base Miles to develop Endurance were in the legs before building Power & Speed. My old coach would tell you to go out for 500 miles at a pace that you can maintain a conversation with a training partner and come back for further (much more intense) instructions.

Get on with it.

-Bandera

FXjohn

you go for 500 mile bike rides??

Bandera

Ha!

All of us with experience in accumulating Base Miles in the legs at a conversational pace, traditionally on a winter fixed gear machine, accumulating them where/when/how conditions permitted to log the required miles before moving to the next phase of training for Power and Speed didn't do it in one ride as is perfectly obvious.

Adaptation to the machine, developing a supple/powerful pedaling style w/ both spin and grunt on demand paid benefits in the season's racing and now just riding to follow.
Taking up the bike after a time off: Back to Base Miles IMHO and take it from there in a structured program to build Endurance, Power and Speed w/o overload/injury.

-Bandera

Flip Flop Rider

Ride everyday. Get on a roll for consecutive days riding. Some here will disagree but don't plan days off, they will happen anyway (storms, dentist, etc.)

don't worry about pace, speed, intervals, etc. Just ride as much as you can without days off. When your legs hurt, just ride easy, but get out and ride

TimothyH

Lots of really, really bad advice in this thread.

Only follow the training plans here if you like to be chronically overtrained and one ride away from injury.

Everyone agreeing on the meaning of "aerobic fitness" would be a start. Maybe the OP could define that for us.



-Tim-

FXjohn

junk miles won't help you improve.

nmichell

I agree -- but when you are just starting out, or in this case starting over, there are no junk miles.

ticwanos

To TimothyH -- My definition of aerobic fitness ... For right now it is having my legs give out before my lungs do. Then I want neither to give out before the ride is done. I have an ambitious goal, which is to be the first elder of my tribe (Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma)to be selected to participate in our annual Remember the Removal bicycle ride which follows the northern route of the Trail of Tears. I have a little less than a year to get ready. Two groups, one from Oklahoma, the other from the Eastern Band in North Carolina, after a week of training together in Cherokee, NC in the Blue Ridge mountains, will start from New Echota, GA and ride to Tahlequah, OK on a 900+ mile route that includes crossing the Appalachians (think Cumberland Gap) and the Missouri and Arkansas Ozarks. The Eastern Band has never had an age limit and this year a 74 year old elder completed the ride. Only this last year did the Oklahoma Cherokees do away with the age limit and I want to be the first elder to do it. My goals are not for speed, but for endurance and hill climbing ability. Honestly, I don't know if I can pull it off, but I want to give it my best effort, and I want to train up smartly and injury free. The ride will take approximately two weeks with daily rides ranging from 40 to 70 miles with the shorter days being through some pretty steep country. It is a cultural pilgrimage to honor the strength and memories of our ancestors and to connect spiritually with both those who survived the journey and those who did not. You know I gotta be serious since I am giving up my evening beer for the duration. Too many of the wrong calories! I'll keep you posted on how the training goes and I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way.