titani

I've been reading that Caad12 is fun, fast, smooth, and comfortable. If so, why pay more for Carbon, like SuperSix?

DGlenday

Because the brainwashed market doesn't understand that although the top of the line bikes are all carbon and not aluminum ... the best aluminum bikes are WAY better than the entry level carbon bikes.

So the market demands carbon, and drives up the prices of many carbon bikes that may be inferior to quality aluminum- like the CAADs.

Dean V

So you think a Caad 12 is better than a Supersix?

Campag4life

Difference between carbon and Al now is mostly weight. Ride quality and stiffness has been addressed mostly with latest AL bikes like the CAAD12, Spesh Allez, Trek Emonda ALR etc. Weight diff isn't much...maybe 200 grams at extreme...depending on frame size and models compared etc.

To many if not most, now that AL has been improved and I posit this has occurred due to being able to form Al similar to what was learned by changing the mold and shape of carbon, for the money Al is the better value bike.

But all said, a good low miles carbon bike can still be had off ebay for cheap. Just picked up an Emonda SL6 with full Ultegra...a demo...off ebay for $1500 for a friend. He looked at lower level carbon and new Al at bike shops. Pretty hard to beat a SL6 and a fantastic bike for the money. Is there really much difference between the ALR Emonda and the SL6 other than a few grams? Not really. But you don't have to pay retail for carbon is the point and all said, some will still prefer carbon. I really like the new Al bikes and am a big fan if buying new.

There is review of the CAAD12 to the Super Six out on the web whereby the reviewer preferred the CAAD12...and definitely preferred it considering the money difference. I have ridden the EVO and its an amazing bike. Al without a doubt is the best value in modern road bikes...with excellent ride, pretty lightweight and great stiffness where you want it. The rest is wheel choice and what groupset you prefer.

memebag

Only pay more if you prefer carbon to aluminum. It's subjective. I rode both and didn't, so I bought a CAAD12.

Also, I don't think one can generalize to aluminum bikes that haven't benefited from the same level of R&D as the CAAD12. Most big bike makers focus on carbon because that's where the demand is.

redfooj

Ends > means

Campag4life

But to be clear, carbon is lighter and why it is preferred. But not much lighter for about $1K less. For most amateurs that even casually race, Al makes a lot of sense as a lower cost race bike.
Also, most of the big bike makers make an Al bike comparable to the CAAD12. Some may in fact prefer the Specialized Allez or even Trek Emonda ALR with a bit more relaxed H2 geometry. Spesh Allez for 2018 now comes in two different geometries unlike the CAAD12 which is pretty much a race geometry.

bikejrff

I have two SuperSixes, a 2010 and a 2012. 2010 has Ultegra, RS-80 wheelset; the 2012 has full SRAM Red w/Boyd Altamont wheels. My 2011 CAAD 10 has DuraAce, SLK crank & Boyd Altamont wheels. Bought the CAAD ($2400) from lbs, the two SuperSixes on ebay ($1200 & $2000), both were new, old stock. The CAAD weighs virtually the same as the 2010 SS and the 2012 SS weighs a pound less. I like the ride of the CAAD 10 the best, especially on longer rides. Carbon is a myth, my best riding/performing bikes are my titaniums and steel Bianchi.

Scarbo

Really? What carbon have you ridden?

Scarbo

What do the lightest aluminum frames weigh now (frame alone)?

San Pedro

~950 grams for a medium sized frame I think. That's what I read the 2017 TCR SLR was at.

dougphoto

One of my best friends has a CAAD 12 and really loves it, another friend of mine who's a Cat 1 rides a CAAD 10 fantastic bikes.

Seattle Forrest

Red is the fastest color. Why would anybody pay more for a black frame?

hsuehhwa

I have a CAAD 12 and a Supersix Evo, with exact the same fit. The SuperSix Evo is lighter and with all the components costs three times as much. If you're already very lean and love long climbing (>3000 ft elevation difference), the difference is very noticeable.


All my climbing PRs were achieved by Supersix Evo. All my descent PRs were done by CAAD 12.

Wspsux

Interesting about the PRs. How do you account for that? Weight?

hsuehhwa

The CAAD 12 I have is just a backup bike. I never rode it to serious mountain roads or group rides until earlier Sep when I had my LBS upgrade the groupsets of my evo.

Now I've been riding CAAD 12 for a month, including two trips to 5500 ft Crystal Lake in San Gabriel Mtns in South Cal. I feel after 4000 ft of climbing and on the 8-10% grade, the difference between CAAD 12 and my Evo was like day and night I didn't have a power meter but I rode this route all the time.


On my Tuesday group ride with people I rode with for years, my performance with the CAAD 12 on climbing and flat were definitely slower, except I was descending faster.


Last month with the CAAD 12 I broke all my PRs in descending. Most of the PRs were made a few years earlier when I was 5-7 lb heavier and more fearless.


CAAD 12 is definitely heavier. I don't weight much (~140 lbs). I bought the entry level 105 group set CAAD 12 without any upgrade. All my components on the Evo are carbon, except the custom built Boyd Aluminum climbing wheel. I don't like carbon wheels for long steep descents due to some earlier unpleasant experiences.

Campag4life

How about if swap all the EVO components to the CAAD12 frameset? Would there be 1 lb difference in weight?
No reason the CAAD12 should take the criticism for not being a good climbing frame because all the parts attached to the frame are heavy. OMO.

hsuehhwa

Agree with you 100%, CAAD 12 frame shouldn't take all the blame.


I WASN"T comparing CAAD 12 frame to Evo Frame.


I made it pretty clear I WAS comparing a <$2k aluminum bike to a >$6k carbon bike (bike = frame + components + wheels...), with very similar geometry.


My point is, based on my personal experience, the more expensive components (which happened to be lighter and stiffer), does make a noticeable difference, particularly in long continuous climbing.

hsuehhwa

The bottom line is if you ride and climb enough, have enough experience/skills to appreciate the $$ difference. They both look extremely good hanging on the wall.

memebag

I'm cool with my $1.5k bike being a little slower than a $6k bike.

Bah Humbug

Given what I've seen of dented CAADs, I'd go with the SuperSix because I believe it would be more durable.

Shocking, I know.

memebag

More useless anecdotal data:

Last week I was in a 4 bike wreck. 3 CF bikes and my CAAD12. The only bike to sustain major damage was the CF Dogma.

99Klein 

Glad someone pointed this out. To get the weight down, modern Al frames are THIN in many areas and are easy to damage.

bonz50

15yrs ago I would agree with this. now, not so much. "low end carbon" now is better than high end carbon of just a few years ago until you are getting to the generic made in china knockoffs. and at that point carbon is significantly cheaper than AL anyway so you're getting what you pay for.

don't misunderstand, I'd ride an AL in a flat second if that is what fit my needs and etc. I'm not hung up on carbon at all, I have one carbon and one AL road bike at the moment. I just think your premise is no longer completely valid, though there are a few examples that could be true it's just not a valid blanket statement these days.

jordanair45

Both good bikes. All comes down to preference. The geometry night be different. A good aluminum bike will ride better than a bad carbon one. I just think having a carbon bike is cool. I do ride a majority of my time a caad 12 though. Great bikes. Just depends on the riding characteristics you like. Gotta ride them because all bikes feel different

Unless you're racing really doubt 1-2 lbs going to make a difference

I've rode super harsh carbon frames and super smooth aluminim frames.

I would get the supersix. Get a nice set of wheels and tires. Unless it's a beater bike. Then caad with nice wheels and tires.