will slicker tires make a notable difference?
#26
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Im also ok with sacrificing a bit of comfort in the interest of durability, i.e. not fixing a puncture on the way home from work and being late collecting the kids from creche.
The balance of speed, durability and agility is a tough one to crack.
The G-ones dont rate well on rolling resistance, but are reasonably durable and agile in acceleration.
The almotions rate well on rolling resistance and durability at the cost of some agility.
They're both almost the same weight.
im weighing up the tradeoffs.
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Im not ignoring it. reviews have said the almotions are a nice ride and very durable. outside of buying a set and trying them out, that's all i have to go on.
Im also ok with sacrificing a bit of comfort in the interest of durability, i.e. not fixing a puncture on the way home from work and being late collecting the kids from creche.
The balance of speed, durability and agility is a tough one to crack.
The G-ones dont rate well on rolling resistance, but are reasonably durable and agile in acceleration.
The almotions rate well on rolling resistance and durability at the cost of some agility.
They're both almost the same weight.
im weighing up the tradeoffs.
Im also ok with sacrificing a bit of comfort in the interest of durability, i.e. not fixing a puncture on the way home from work and being late collecting the kids from creche.
The balance of speed, durability and agility is a tough one to crack.
The G-ones dont rate well on rolling resistance, but are reasonably durable and agile in acceleration.
The almotions rate well on rolling resistance and durability at the cost of some agility.
They're both almost the same weight.
im weighing up the tradeoffs.
Also, when looking at reviews, you need to consider that they're going to be relative to their competition within a given category and that you're looking across multiple categories. I have not touched a Marathon, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that they're not going to come close to touching a Pro One in terms of being fast, supple, and grippy at appropriate pressure.
If you really want the best of all worlds, and are responsible and competent enough to deal with occasional maintenance, I'd be looking at road tubeless tires in the 28-32mm range.
#28
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Ive been tubeless, overall the experience was slightly negative so im not going down that route again just yet.
The bike is a gravel bike so i wouldnt be going lower than 36-38mm on it anyway.
Thanks for your input.
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Thats unfair and rude. I am both responsible and competent enough, i have time limitations that necessitate that i do what i can to avoid punctures, i.e. kids need to be picked up.
Ive been tubeless, overall the experience was slightly negative so im not going down that route again just yet.
Ive been tubeless, overall the experience was slightly negative so im not going down that route again just yet.
It's a gravel bike that's not going to be seeing gravel. Put slicks on it and it's an endurance road bike. Many people buy gravel bikes and an additional wheelset so that they can quickly and easily swap between wide and knobby and slick and fast.
#30
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To close this off, I've ordered a set of Continental GP 5000 32mm. Coming from a 40mm nobly tire I have no doubt they will be very different, hopefully in a good way and durability wont suffer too much.
Not going tubeless as I've been there before and when it gets messy, it gets very messy, so will stick with tubes and the hit to puncture resistance they bring.
once they're delivered and I've had a few spins on them ill give an update.
Thanks all for the advice and discussion.
Not going tubeless as I've been there before and when it gets messy, it gets very messy, so will stick with tubes and the hit to puncture resistance they bring.
once they're delivered and I've had a few spins on them ill give an update.
Thanks all for the advice and discussion.
Last edited by wilson_smyth; 01-13-21 at 10:56 AM.
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You won't necessarily go any faster, but you will notice a lot less buzz from the knobs or tread.
As mentioned above, if you want to go noticeably faster you need to get a lightweight tire with supple casing and sidewall and (unfortunately) no flat protective layer.
As mentioned above, if you want to go noticeably faster you need to get a lightweight tire with supple casing and sidewall and (unfortunately) no flat protective layer.
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You won't necessarily go any faster, but you will notice a lot less buzz from the knobs or tread.
As mentioned above, if you want to go noticeably faster you need to get a lightweight tire with supple casing and sidewall and (unfortunately) no flat protective layer.
As mentioned above, if you want to go noticeably faster you need to get a lightweight tire with supple casing and sidewall and (unfortunately) no flat protective layer.
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Oh? Care to elaborate? Some pretty knowledgeable people seem to think that they're not without merit and value -
Almost always, the rank ordering of tires on rollers is the same as on the road. Sometimes two tires will swap ranking, but usually that's when the tires are pretty close to begin with. An exception can occur when the impedance break point on one tire comes a little earlier than the other. If you're in the neighborhood of that threshold, you can also observe a ranking swap.
Almost always, if you see a discussion of impedance breakpoint they're talking about real world field testing on roads as opposed to on a roller.
Almost always, if you see a discussion of impedance breakpoint they're talking about real world field testing on roads as opposed to on a roller.
That depends on how careful you're being in testing. If you're being really careful, you can reliably discern a difference in Crr *on the road* of maybe around 5% or maybe a bit less (I prefer to work in Crr rather that watts since watts depends on your speed and total weight). So if you're measuring a tire that has a Crr on the road of around .004, that means you can reliably discern a difference of around .0002, or a bit less.
So, one thing we noticed in addition to the rankings not changing much between roller and road testing: Real roads tend to be a little less perfect than even the kind of diamond plate Jarno uses for his big drum, plus when you pedal you're moving around and leaning the tire this way and that. So Crr measured in field tests tends to be maybe 1.5x higher in absolute terms than what Jarno measures on his drum. That is, the relative rankings and the relative differentials tend to be very close between rollers and road, but the absolute raw Crr values vary by maybe 1.5 (and this will depend on the condition of the pavement).
Here's the practical bottom line: if I absolutely positively need to know--like when I'm working with someone making a record attempt--I'll test CdA and Crr on the surface being raced on. However, for most purposes, I just use the roller tests, multiply by maybe 1.5, and use that. That usually gets me close (but, of course, I check).
So, one thing we noticed in addition to the rankings not changing much between roller and road testing: Real roads tend to be a little less perfect than even the kind of diamond plate Jarno uses for his big drum, plus when you pedal you're moving around and leaning the tire this way and that. So Crr measured in field tests tends to be maybe 1.5x higher in absolute terms than what Jarno measures on his drum. That is, the relative rankings and the relative differentials tend to be very close between rollers and road, but the absolute raw Crr values vary by maybe 1.5 (and this will depend on the condition of the pavement).
Here's the practical bottom line: if I absolutely positively need to know--like when I'm working with someone making a record attempt--I'll test CdA and Crr on the surface being raced on. However, for most purposes, I just use the roller tests, multiply by maybe 1.5, and use that. That usually gets me close (but, of course, I check).
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If you know of such a test that has in fact demonstrated this, I would love to look at it.
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I have never seen any tests that demonstrate that ranking on roller drums translates reliably to ranking on the road. I have seen many people say that they do, but no evidence. I have also looked at studies supposedly verifying roller drum results, and they do verify certain aspects of the results, but not the rankings of one tire relative to another.
If you know of such a test that has in fact demonstrated this, I would love to look at it.
If you know of such a test that has in fact demonstrated this, I would love to look at it.
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In my case I bought more expensive carbon wheels for my road bike. Then I kick down my my alloy wheels from the road bike to the gravel bike. So nice to have two wheels sets for the gravel bike when you go out of town. one bike with two wheels sets = 2 bikes.
#39
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I wanted to try 28mm tires, so recently swapped 35mm panaracer t-serv tires with 28mm continental ultra sport iii because they were cheap. The 28s are easier to pedal, specially off the get go but it comes in expense of giving up some comfort although not by much. The conties are 160gm/each lighter than the t-serves. I also switched to lighter inner tubes. So, overall ended up with 470gm weight reduction (2tires + 2tubes + 1spare tube), so maybe that's the main reason that makes a difference.
I also have a pair of panaracer tour 42mm tires that feel really cushy but compared to the other two, they have lead in them. My next tires will be 32mm wide mostly ridden on paved road.
I also have a pair of panaracer tour 42mm tires that feel really cushy but compared to the other two, they have lead in them. My next tires will be 32mm wide mostly ridden on paved road.
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Sorry, but I am not taking someones word for this.
Why am I skeptical? My first inclination that something was off was when they gave the Compass Bon Jon Pass (among the fasted tires I have run) a pretty slow score. This made no sense to me and is definitely not my experience. Further, as I looked around to compare to other tires I have owned, I found they gave a very similar scores to the Bon Jon and the Marathon Supreme. I have owed both of these tires, and there is no way in hell they are anywhere close to each other in rolling resistance. The Bon Jon was WAY faster. Night and day difference. Heck they rated the Gatorskin (which I have also owned) only slightly slower, and that is a freaking garden hose compared the Bon Jon Pass.
I think the problem with the roller drum test is that it deforms to tire differently than a flat surface does. Is deforms the casing under in the middle or the tire (under the tread) more sharply than a flat surface does. This means it gives more weight to the flexibility of that part of the tire casing than a flat surface does.
Now, maybe that does not matter for many tires, if they are of similar construction. But what if you have a tire that is especially flexible in the sidewall both rather thick under the tread (Like most compass/RH tires)? I think what is happening is that the thick tread slows it down more on the roller drum than it would on a flat surface (a real road).
So until I see some evidence (not just someone saying it is so) that the roller drum tests are a reliable predictor of rolling resistance on real world surfaces for a wide variety of tire constructions, I am taking them with a big grain of salt. Are the results correlated? I am sure they are, but that can fall apart with individual tires that have unusual characteristics.
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I'll ask yet again as I have been asking for several years: show me the tests that validates roller drum results as an accurate predictor real world rolling resistance across a range of tires.
I am not saying it does not exist, but to date, nobody has pointed to it.
I am still waiting....
I am not saying it does not exist, but to date, nobody has pointed to it.
I am still waiting....
#43
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I'll ask yet again as I have been asking for several years: show me the tests that validates roller drum results as an accurate predictor real world rolling resistance across a range of tires.
I am not saying it does not exist, but to date, nobody has pointed to it.
I am still waiting....
I am not saying it does not exist, but to date, nobody has pointed to it.
I am still waiting....
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Sure, but without knowing what they were testing and under what conditions, it is impossible to know how widely applicable the findings are.
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Welp, there's a way of doing this, it's called the Chung Method. It's widely used within high performance road cycling, including professional and Olympic levels. It's worth noting that the fellow that I quoted is named RChung. Do the math.
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Still waiting....
Last edited by Kapusta; 01-14-21 at 06:29 PM.
#49
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Though you do need to know that translation from roller data to road doesn't use any information on the tire; only roller geometry and road roughness.
Last edited by asgelle; 01-14-21 at 06:32 PM.
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So you don't accept anything that you can't understand and confirm yourself? Time dilation affects satellites in a way that I don't understand and can't confirm with my math skills, but I accept that GPS satellites need to compensate for this so that I can use my phone to reliably locate the nearest Starbucks. Are you telling me to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
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