whollyjordan

Hello!

I recently purchased a Tern Verge x18 to use recreationally (fun/fitness/escape) and I love it.

However, the roads around where I live are pretty rough. Shocking, frankly.. pretty beat up in places.

So the ride on my x18 is often rough to suit.

It does not soak up the bumps..

This got me thinking about the Birdy bike, with its suspension magic going on.

I'm seriously tempted to grab one.

Any one know how it'll compare to mine, not just in soaking up the bumps.. but also the speed and handling etc?

I'm pretty new to this world, so I don't have much experience to draw on.

Cheers!

Silverexpress

Have you considered the Moulton?

www.tinyurl.com/mwx7cmw

ThorUSA

put fat tires on it ?
I suggest to really try any other bike first ... Moulton is nice, a little heavy I think

invisiblehand

I've ridden Birdy bikes and the suspension is a plus. But I'd certainly test ride one before swapping bikes. Even before that, I'd look at the tires on your Tern and test whether an upgrade to wider supple tires would do the trick.

whollyjordan

Cheers for the advice.

Moulton's look fantastic. And the TSR range would be in budget, though hard to find reviews of current range to understand them better. But even so, I really require a folder, rather than a seperable bike. So that's that.

As for wider tires, no doubt that would improve the ride on bumpy roads. Yet.. and maybe my imagination is way off, but I can't imagine fatter tires would improve things by enough alone.

Guess I'd need to test that one..

Silverexpress

Check out NYCe bikes to get a idea of folders that maybe more suitable for your situation. I've seen a folding mountain bike on their site once before.

hockey

Consider trying a shockpost first. I used one on our tandem and my partner was pleased with the comfort on rough roads and bumps.

Sangetsu

The Birdy does provide a very comfortable ride. A shock post will reduce bumps from the rear wheel, but do nothing for shocks coming up to the bar from the front wheel, the front suspension on the Birdy is incredibly well thought out. The suspension benefit is much more noticeable if you run narrow, high-pressure tires. I run Panasonic Minits on mine with pressures up to 120 psi, and still have a smooth ride. I also like the fit and finish, and how quickly the Birds can be folded and unfolded.

Speed is not comparable to a road bike, but very fast for a folder. What I like best about the Birdy is it's open cockpit, which I can adjust to the same specs as my full-size, 58cm road bike. The Birdy is also very easy to modify, using standard drive train parts. The Birdy is a light weight bike, but can be significantly lighter with upgrades. I often leave my road bike at home, and do training rides on my Birdy. A 20" wheel swap (20" wheels simply bolt on, no structural mods are necessary, you just need spacers for the brakes), and Dura Ace/XTR components upgrade dropped a fair amount of weight, and added a significant amount of speed.

whollyjordan

Thanks Sangetsu! Appreciate you sharing your personal experience with a Birdy, and the info about possible upgrades.

I nearly bought a new mk3 earlier this week on a whim.. but held off to gather more data (they're about 2 grand here in the UK, not exactly small change..)

Meanwhile I went for a 15 mile ride today, great fun. But again, pretty rough going. I cringe on some of the surfaces here..

OK. So aside from comfort (which clearly the Birdy wins on ) I wonder how it would compare to my Verge x18 in regards to speed?

This weekend I'm hoping to try a Birdy (although only the budget one, based on the older frame) and maybe even a Moulton TSR.. just for comparison.

Sangetsu

The Birdy with the straight frame lacks a bit of the sexiness of the monocoque frame, but is lighter, you can easily build an 8 kg Birdy with the straight frame. If the bike you are looking at is called the "classic", the frame has some improvements for extra strength. With similar components and tires, there will not be a big difference in speed. The Birdy does not have a front derailleur, which limits the gearing, but a derailleur can be fitted with an adapter. The straight frame Birdy can use a Dahon derailleur adapter.

I took my Birdy for a ride in the Yoyogi area yesterday, where the new Olympic stadium is being built. I kept up a road-bike pace for an hour (there is large round circuit in the center of the park which is closed to cars on holidays, and this week is Golden Week). I rode over grates, manhole covers, and other things in the road just to see how well the bid would ride over them, and it soaked up the bumps nicely. My only complaint is that the XTR brakes I am using were a little rattly when the front suspension jumped.

Here in Japan there are a variety of suspension systems for the Birdy, from the stock style spring and urethane bushing to air or hydraulic systems which can be adjusted for both compression and rebound. For myself, the stock parts work just fine. The design of the front suspension eliminates dive when you use the front brake.

I'll be taking my Birdy on a cross-country tour of Japan later this year. It offers the best combination of comfort, speed, and ease of transport (I'll be taking it to my starting point by train and bus). I've had two Birdys, two Bromptons, and a Dahon, but have stuck with the Birdy as my main ride.

icedmocha 

Any issues with any of them? The Birdy suspension looks complicated to me, so I associate it with problems.

Schwinnsta

I would first look to tires. They must be supple as well as wide. They can make a big difference and don't have the drawbacks that can come with suspension.

Sangetsu

I have had no problems at all with it, other than at one time the urethane elastomer for the rear suspension cracked and broke. But it was an older bike with a soft elastomer, too soft for my weight. The structure of the suspension is less complicated than it looks. The only weakness was the point where the fork assembly bolted onto the steerer tube, this could become cracked. But this is only a problem in the earlier models, the later ones were made more strongly. I've been commuting on my bike for a few years now with no issues at all.

whollyjordan

Thanks again, Sangetsu.

Great information.

You are clearly impressed with your Birdy. And it sounds like you have good reason, based on the performance you're getting out of it.

The one I may be able to test ride tomorrow is the Birdy World (which I think is the strengthened mk1 that you mention, but perhaps has a different name here — you can see it listed on the birdybike.com website.)

I much prefer the look of the mk2/mk3 frame but I didn't know the mk1 had a weight advantage. Food for thought..

whollyjordan

If I can not get a good price for my X18 then I may go this route. It would certainly be more economical!

mling1985

Not sure if this helps, but I had comfort issues with my tern (maybe not as much as u) and have recently got myself a suspension seatpost called thunderbuster LT, it really helps taking the edge off on bumpy surface. You might want to look into that as well if u can't get a good price on your verge. Good luck

kidshibuya

I would not worry about speed. I have a similar bike to your x18 (Dahon Mu LT11) and I have only ever had one folding bike keep up with me and he was on a LOUIS GARNEAU JEDI, very similar to a birdy. You will lose a little efficiency in the suspension and add a little weight, but you will gain a lot of speed over anything rough. I lose a lot of speed slowing for bumps just because the impact forces with the high pressure tyres make cringe worrying about the shape of my wheels.

Thanks for the tip, might head out there tomorrow.

whollyjordan

That's a great bike you have there!

Thanks for sharing your experience. Really helpful.

And wow.. never heard of the LOUIS JEDI bike. It's sooo similar to the Birdy. Who copied who? Guess the JEDI is a copy. Unless Birdy license their design out.

Sangetsu

I, too, prefer the look of the newer frame. My earlier Birdy (They have a different name here in Japan) was the straight frame style. I upgraded it with a combination of Ultegra and Deore XT parts, giving me 10 speeds. with lighter tires, bar, stem, and crankset, it was an even 8 kg. Others in Japan have managed to go half a kilo lighter.

My current bike is the monocoque frame, with an XTR 11 speed driveline in the back, and Dura Ace in the front, with Ultegra hubs and 20" wheels. I've added a titanium bar and seat post, and a some titanium hardware, and am at about 9 kg now. The bike was fast and easy to ride with the 18" wheels, but the 20" conversion makes it somewhat faster, and IMO improves the handling a bit. I was running a front derailleur, but have had problems with the adapter, as there is little clearance between the chain and the swingarm. The straight frame bikes have a bit more clearance. The only downside with the 20" conversion is that the fold is not as compact, but the bike will still fit in my carrying bag.