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GCN - Can Gravel Bikes Do It All?

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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

GCN - Can Gravel Bikes Do It All?

Old 06-17-19, 06:19 AM
  #1  
Hmmm
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GCN - Can Gravel Bikes Do It All?


After riding my bike with 28c tires on road and 40c tires off road I don't know why anyone would spend money, with as many options as there are, on a road bike with limited tire clearance. But I'm probably preaching to the choir. Glad Si felt the same way.
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Old 06-17-19, 07:04 AM
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Absolutely! I have a second wheelset with 28mm GP5Ks for my gravel bike (measure 30mm on 20c wheels), and now the road bike will stay in TT trim while the gravel bike pulls double duty. It's more comfortable, just as fast, and the disc brakes are fantastic. A friend of mine who does Tri's and only has a tri bike, was talking about getting a road bike, I told him to get a gravel bike with an extra wheelset and he'll be able to do any kind of riding he wants (short of technical MTB stuff).
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Old 06-17-19, 07:38 AM
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You can also get pretty technical on a gravel bike.

My road bike predates gravel. I was fortunate enough that in 2001 when it was be built, the frame maker set it up to allow up to 30mm tires. It got me off pavement well enough that I eventually got a gravel bike.

I still ride the road bike plenty because it's lighter (17.75 vs 22 lbs).

If I was bike less before the purchase though, yep, gravel with an extra wheelset all the way. The only concession I have to make is 2x. I love the 1x for my more gnarly riding but there is no way I'd use it on a road ride.
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Old 06-17-19, 09:59 AM
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I'm using both a Raleigh Roker and a Canyon Endurace on gravel. The Canyon also is very fast on pavement. The Roker is fitted with 700x38 Hutchinson Override and Vittoria Terreno Dry. The Canyon Endurace is fitted with the OEM 700x28 Continental S4000, these measure about 31.5 wide.

The Canyon is only 0.5 mph slower than my road race bike (a Ridley Helium SLX with lightweight carbon rims and 700x25 tires) on paved Strava segments. The Roker is much slower than either bike on pavement. The Canyon is faster than the Roker on gravel. I could do all my gravel on the Canyon Endurace, if I had to.

A endurance bike with a variety of 28 to 33mm wide tires is the ideal do-it-all. If I could only have one bike, It would be a Canyon Endurace with extra wheels and tires.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 06-18-19 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 06-20-19, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hmmm

But I'm probably preaching to the choir. Glad Si felt the same way.
Ummmm... No, he doesn't. Listen from 16:00 -> 16:50

I guess it depends on how well you want to do it all. Plus the annoyance of having to change wheels, pedals and saddle height at a minimum before each ride.

Last edited by Caliper; 06-20-19 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 06-20-19, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Caliper
Ummmm... No, he doesn't. Listen from 16:00 -> 16:50 https://youtu.be/6OdZ0l9hFes?t=962

I guess it depends on how well you want to do it all. Plus the annoyance of having to change wheels, pedals and saddle height at a minimum before each ride.
There is absolutely no need to change pedals or saddle height. Two-bolt SPD with a nice, stiff shoe is great on the road.

I've always hated road pedals and shoes anyway.
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Old 06-20-19, 11:28 AM
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The beach race looks like a blast.

"Bloody good fun, that" is what he said when he got off the bike.


-Tim-
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Old 06-20-19, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS
There is absolutely no need to change pedals or saddle height. Two-bolt SPD with a nice, stiff shoe is great on the road.

I've always hated road pedals and shoes anyway.
Yup, I don't change anything, just swap wheels and go, same pedals/shoes/seat height. The only thing I'm changing is rotors, figured out that the stock rotors aren't as thick as the Shimano rotors on my road wheels, so I'm putting Shimano rotors on the gravel wheels so that there's no adjustment period when swapping. I'm also enjoying the SPD pedals, def easier to use, and you can actually walk in the shoes. lol

I will say that while I am enjoying my gravel bike pulling double duty, if I were actually racing crits or road races, I'd probably still want a race bike to eek out every bit of speed I could. But for training rides, solo or group, it's great!
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Old 06-20-19, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS
There is absolutely no need to change pedals or saddle height. Two-bolt SPD with a nice, stiff shoe is great on the road.
If you just want to operate a gravel bike on the road, sure. Then there is no need to change wheels even. But, you are definitely giving up connection plus adding weight to your feet and remember that his test was about actually being competitive on the road. If I had to pick just one pedal and shoe it would be three bolt road cleats and shoes since I rarely unclip on gravel rides anyways.
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Old 06-20-19, 01:43 PM
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Shoes and pedals make about as much difference as how heavy your water bottles are.
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Old 06-20-19, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliper
If I had to pick just one pedal and shoe it would be three bolt road cleats and shoes since I rarely unclip on gravel rides anyways.
That's what I was thinking when I first put my gravel bike together in 2017, especially since the regional gravel riding doesn't tend to get muddy. On the very first gravel ride with SPD-SL, I spent the last 20 miles unable to properly clip my left foot in, riding with my cleat vaguely floating on top of the pedal. Very unpleasant.

While I slightly prefer the feel of SPD-SL mechanism over SPD, I don't think there's any tangible performance difference. If there's any question, I always err in the direction of SPD.
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Old 06-20-19, 04:43 PM
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I've got to admit that the bikes in the GCN video are pretty rad. I could handle one of those along with two wheelsets for road and gravel, though might be inclined to slam the stem a bit for road rides.

I'm also aware that the 2x12 groupset, which IMO helps make it manageable, is probably way out of my budget. Does anyone know what the availability of 2x12 currently looks like? I'm likely to wait until the tech trickles down into budget-friendly levels (like the Shimano 105, non-electronic) level.
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Old 06-20-19, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliper
If you just want to operate a gravel bike on the road, sure. Then there is no need to change wheels even. But, you are definitely giving up connection plus adding weight to your feet and remember that his test was about actually being competitive on the road. If I had to pick just one pedal and shoe it would be three bolt road cleats and shoes since I rarely unclip on gravel rides anyways.
I would do the opposite.

Carbon sole XC mountain bike shoes with 212 gram/pair XPEDO M-Force 8 titanium pedals are as light and connected as any road setup + the ability to walk in a reasonable fashion.

I'll probably convert my road bike when the Speedplay X-Series pedals die.


-Tim-
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Old 06-20-19, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
That's what I was thinking when I first put my gravel bike together in 2017, especially since the regional gravel riding doesn't tend to get muddy. On the very first gravel ride with SPD-SL, I spent the last 20 miles unable to properly clip my left foot in, riding with my cleat vaguely floating on top of the pedal. Very unpleasant.
.
Interesting. Why not stop and clear the pedal out?
Also too late. I've already ridden hundreds of miles on dirt in Looks. Including a random metric century to a friends house and back that only covered a few paved miles. Michigan dirt roads are fairly sandy though and even when raining don't get muddy. Plus I don't tend to stop much except if I have to at a stop sign or something.


Originally Posted by TimothyH
I'll probably convert my road bike when the Speedplay X-Series pedals die.

-Tim-
I never got very friendly with Speedplays either and probably would take SPD over them. Look definitely feels far more connected though.

Anyways, I still agree with Si. a gravel bike definitely leaves something on the table compared to a pure road bike on pavement or a pure MTB on singletrack. Where neither of those can compete with a gravel bike though is on a gravel road. A gravel bike can participate in all and does the best of any general type of bike at it but does not excell outside of its speciality.
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Old 06-20-19, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliper
Interesting. Why not stop and clear the pedal out?
The pedal was fine, it was the cleat that was gunked up. I did stop to clear it out, it was hard to get it properly de-gunked and it also got chewed up from the ordeal. I ended up just replacing it afterwards.
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Old 06-20-19, 10:03 PM
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My gravel bike is about 4 pounds heavier than my road bike. I ride it a little more than half the time of all my rides. The geometry is more comfy on longer rides. I have two sets of wheels but I like one wheelset much better than the other so Ill usually switch out tires instead of wheels.

I can go more places on my gravelbike. Its much better in the rain and the disc brakes make a huge difference especialy in the hills in the winter where I ride.

I love my gravel bike.

That being said, when I go on a group ride with the road guys, aint no way I am hanging with them for 45-50 miles on the gravel bike. Its just not as fast. I can pull 20-21 mph on the gravelbike at my max but on the road bike I can pace at about 21-22 with the guys. Its not that big a difference for a 20 mile ride but if I have to go longer, the gravel bike is just not cut out for that.

Most of this is probably because the tire size but I do know the geometry has a bit to do with it as well. My gravel bike handles great on gravely climbs and descents. The geometry helps me to keep my weight where I need it. On the road bike I can get up on the rivet and push hard to get more speed out of it. On the gravel bike I feel a little too compact, scrunched up maybe, if I get up on the end of the seat to put down power.

You can ride a gravel bike for both but overall they each have a place.

I am sure if I was younger it might be my training bike to increase overall strength and who knows, maybe my winter rides are contributing to that but there is a noticable difference between them.

Also to note here is that there may be some wonderful geometrical balance that excels at both and maybe I just dont have that bike. I highly doubt this is 100% true. You might be able to come close although I still think you would be sacrificing something.

-Sean

Last edited by Wilmingtech; 06-20-19 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 06-21-19, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Caliper
If you just want to operate a gravel bike on the road, sure. Then there is no need to change wheels even. But, you are definitely giving up connection plus adding weight to your feet and remember that his test was about actually being competitive on the road. If I had to pick just one pedal and shoe it would be three bolt road cleats and shoes since I rarely unclip on gravel rides anyways.
I've been using the Shimano PD-A600 road pedals on my road bike for years, and I really don't think I'm giving anything up at all. Nothing but gains. There are even stiffer road shoes available for SPD cleats that allow you to walk far better than SPD-SL or Look style cleats do. Power transfer comes mostly from the shoes anyway.

I come from a mountain biking background in the 90's, so I had great familiarity with the old SPD standard. And I have some knee trouble at times, so I appreciate the extra float in the SPD system. I use the single-direction release and have never had an issue getting unclipped.

I would also consider Speedplay, but it's just difficult to switch over all of my shoes and bikes once you're invested in another system. But I do believe road shoes cold be fine in gravel as well, if that's what you prefer. Mud has been an issue for some, but not every gravel rider routinely rides through peanut butter.
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Old 06-21-19, 02:29 PM
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Yup. I've got a Focus Mares cyclocross bike. I commute on it, race crits and ride fast group rides on 28mm GP4000s, race CX on it with 35mm knobbies, and race gravel with 40mm gravel tires. I SORT of want an aero road bike...but would never buy a standard round tube road bike to replace this.
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Old 06-21-19, 02:46 PM
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Do it all bike - probably. Do it all well bike - now you're pushing it. Do a few things great, some things okay, and be able to do the rest mediocre - yes

FWIW, in the most recent MTB race I attended, there were some SS bikes & gravel bikes that were getting pushed up the hills.
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Old 06-23-19, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman
Yup. I've got a Focus Mares cyclocross bike. I commute on it, race crits and ride fast group rides on 28mm GP4000s, race CX on it with 35mm knobbies, and race gravel with 40mm gravel tires. I SORT of want an aero road bike...but would never buy a standard round tube road bike to replace this.
Amen! Maybe CX bikes are better pulling road duties than a more relaxed "gravel geo" which means nothing as it is all over the place. CX geo is fairly standardised compared to the ambiguity that is "gravel bikes".

Originally Posted by Wilmingtech
That being said, when I go on a group ride with the road guys, aint no way I am hanging with them for 45-50 miles on the gravel bike. Its just not as fast. I can pull 20-21 mph on the gravelbike at my max but on the road bike I can pace at about 21-22 with the guys. Its not that big a difference for a 20 mile ride but if I have to go longer, the gravel bike is just not cut out for that.

Most of this is probably because the tire size but I do know the geometry has a bit to do with it as well. My gravel bike handles great on gravely climbs and descents. The geometry helps me to keep my weight where I need it. On the road bike I can get up on the rivet and push hard to get more speed out of it. On the gravel bike I feel a little too compact, scrunched up maybe, if I get up on the end of the seat to put down power.

-Sean
What tire size? While I agree tires would make a huge difference on a group ride, and maybe that extra 4 lbs. But what if you were running road tires. Do you still feel that the extra 4 lbs and the geo make the bike unable to keep up on a group ride? Super interesting.
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Old 06-23-19, 01:54 PM
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Geometry does not affect straight line speed. It just doesnt.

You can make legitimate cases for handling difference in races...or just a preference for feel. But slack geometry doesnt make a bike slower.
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Old 06-24-19, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Hmmm
What tire size? While I agree tires would make a huge difference on a group ride, and maybe that extra 4 lbs. But what if you were running road tires. Do you still feel that the extra 4 lbs and the geo make the bike unable to keep up on a group ride? Super interesting.
My gravel bike is 4lbs heavier than my road bike, and I have no problem keeping up on fast group rides with a set of 28mm GP5Ks, can even still take some sprint zones (I could keep up with them with gravel tires too, it would just take more effort, and I doubt I'd be out front on the sprints lol). Just took it on a long road ride with 10k ft of climbing, the gearing and disc brakes were fantastic, no way I'd want to do that ride on my rim brake road bike.
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Old 06-24-19, 11:28 AM
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What is there specifically about a gravel bike that you feel holds you back? Tires? Weight? Rider positioning???
To me, a gravel bike is anything that can comfortably take 40mm gravel tires - and that by itself doesn't make a bike slow.


I can see how some of your gravel bikes may not really replace a road bike, but gravel bikes can. I have a friend who tried a fast road ride (25-30mph) on the 3T in the video. He failed miserably on 650b x 48mm Gravel kings. The next week he did fine on 700c 28mm Conti 5000 tires.


Personally, my gravel bike is faster than my road bikes. The only potentially negative thing is the handle bars are a little wider than a pure road bike. But it is as light & stiff (in the right places) as a good road bike. I can’t think of anything that holds it back on the road. And using 32mm Conti 5000 tires on that fast road ride gives me an advantage over overly stiff road bikes on the roads around here (our dirt roads are often smoother than our asphalt in the summer).
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Old 06-24-19, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman
Geometry does not affect straight line speed. It just doesnt.
It kinda does. Most of that seems to be in the chain stay. Maybe its just me, but I have not found a bike with a 435mm chain stay that can really accelerate and "pop" like one with a 420mm chain stay. In a fast hard road ride, putting power down climbing a hill, or doing a jump when I get behind a slow wheel is important to me.

And my rides are not just straight. A shorter wheelbase and tighter head tube angle allow me to corner harder. Faster cornering means less acceleration out of the corner. That and of course, if you drop the BB too much I just have to coast around the corner and wait a few beats before accelerating out of it.

If I get too long/low/slack I just have to slow down more or I'll run wide (and hit something) on a hard corner.

And obviously stack is going to affect how aero my body is.
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Old 06-26-19, 02:27 AM
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I sold a CAAD10 and to bought a TCX. I feel no compromise when I have road tires on my TCX. I wish I could hop on a CAAD10 now and directly compare the two because I might like the TCX on the road more than the CAAD10.

Obviously if I had bought a Specialized Sequoia, or similar bike I might miss feel the CAAD10. I imagine the 'cross geo makes me FEEL fast like the CAAD10 geo did. But I don't believe I would be any slower weight being the same. To me feeling fast and actually going fast are two different things.

Science aside, speed tests aside, some bikes are twitchy and aggressive, some are more stable. If you want a stable bike with drop bars for gravel and a twitchy road bike for road that is great. I prefer a fast twitchy, aggressive bike on road and gravel so having a TCX for my "do it all" bike is perfect for me.
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