DiabloScott

I have a drawer with new tubes in boxes, never been used.
I have a hook in the ceiling with tubes that have been used but never patched.
I have another hook in the ceiling with tubes that have been patched and tested.
I have another hook in the ceiling with tubes that need to be patched.
I have another hook in the ceiling with tubes that have been patched and are awaiting testing.
I have another hook in the ceiling with an old wheel and tire that I use for the testing.

I only put unpatched ones in the saddle bag... probably over-cautious.

I have another hook in the ceiling with sew-ups... for a different thread.

Crankycrank

+1. I remember about 30 yrs ago a hotel sponsored a local one-off amateur criterium. Some Russian guys working for a local company showed up with some pretty old and well used equipment. One guy was changing a tire and I noticed his tube had so many patches on it you could barely see any of the original tube. Obviously his patches were working. He won the race by the way.

cyccommute 

If someone is going to have a problem with patches, they probably won’t be Rema. Rema uses chemistry to make the bond between the patch and the tube. Other patch systems use physics to make the bond. Chemistry trumps physics.

Racing Dan

You dont need a wheel. Lightly inflating the tube and hang it for 24h is plenty sufficient.

the sci guy 

Well the patch kit I got from my shop was a small Park Tool box. Guess I'm just setting myself up for failure! LOL

Sy Reene

I would think a big difference confirming seal and no leak, between eg. the 80 or so PSI you would be testing within a tire/wheel, vs outside a tire/wheel where probably 10psi would be pushing it?

Gresp15C

All adhesion is chemistry.

Physics is buying a patch kit that works.

j/k of course. I have 5 chemists in my family, including my spouse and both of my parents, so somebody has to stick up for physics, but we try not to get too tribol about it.

Barry2 

Guessing... You've not patched a lot of tubes.
I'd reinstall my patched tube back in the tire and return the new tube to spare status.
This way you can prove your patching prowess while still retaining a new spare tube.

Once patching prowess has been established, yep I'd keep the patched as the spare in future.

Barry

andrewclaus

In many decades of carrying patched tubes in a saddle bag, I've only had one problem where I creased the patch and it cracked, perhaps after nearly a year in the pack. One more voice here to keep the patch as flat as possible. And another voice for quality patches, unlike that one I used.

Also protect the spare from loose tools in the saddle bag. I store mine in the toe of an old sock.

Racing Dan

Again, really?

In my experience they all work the same, with the same sort of "glue" and patches. I never came across a set that had "rubber cement" or any glue that wasn't functionally identical to the "glue" in the Rema sets.

cyccommute 

Yes, really. I’ve looked into this numerous times due to these kinds of discussions. There’s a fair amount of sophisticated chemistry involved in Rema patches that isn’t used anywhere else. Look at any number of none Rema kits. They almost all say “rubber cement”. The “glue” in most patch kits is identical to Elmer’s Rubber Cement which is just latex in a solvent suspension. Rema vulcanizing fluid contains N-Ethylcyclohexylamine. There is a sulfur containing compound in the patch that is activated by the amine in the vulcanizing fluid. Between the two, they react to form new sulfur bonds into the rubber which are more permanent than those formed with rubber cement.

Failures with the Rema can happen but they are usually due to user error. Failures with rubber cement is due to bond failure.

Racing Dan

I have a hard time believing this? For almost 4 decades I've been patching tubes, using the exact same technique, using all sorts of generic sets and never had issues. All of them had a tube of glue that worked just the same as the glue in the Rema sets. - the stuff that needs to dry before applying the patch, AKA vulcanizing fluid/solution. Maybe you are just reading the generic blurb on amazon?

katsup

I once had a tube failure with the patched tube in my saddle bag so I now put the patch tube back in the wheel at home, plus I know it's good if it lasts overnight. I've since figured out why the patch failed (cheap glue), but continued this process.

If the patched tube has been tested in a wheel for awhile, I'd be OK to keep it in the saddle bag.

dedhed

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...er-cement.html

cyccommute 

No. I’m not “reading the generic blurb on Amazon”. I’ve read the MSDSs for the materials. I’ve read papers on cold vulcanization and the chemistry of that cold vulcanization. I’ve also read things about how rubber cement works. Yes, rubber cement is applied in the same way that vulcanizing fluid for Rema patches is. Yes, they both have to be allowed to dry completely. And, yes, rubber cement makes a fairly strong bond that forms instantly but the similarities stop there. The vulcanizing fluid continues doing chemistry which the rubber cement doesn’t. But you aren’t going to see that chemistry happening because it is happening at a molecular level. You will see the difference in the quality of the patch job, however.

Both can be messed up but rubber cement tends to fail even if you do every thing right.

Racing Dan

Except I haven't, - to the extent it never even entered my mind what glue is in the set? :-)

Patches just doesn't fail in my experience. I just counted 18 patches on 8 tubes I have lying around and an unknown number on the tubes already in my wheels. All perfectly fine and Im guessing only a few (if any) Rema jobs. Some are many years old, Im betting at least a decade, or even two. IME, it amounts to FUD claiming only Rema will do because of special sauce chemistry and every one else supposedly using inferior "rubber cement".

Racing Dan

Btw, if anyone cares.

You can glue small punctures with superglue, no problem. Just make sure the glue enters into the hole by stretching it a bit, and make sure to not glue the "other side" of the tube to the "side" with the hole.

nomadmax 

No, I do not put a patched tube back in the saddlebag.

The reason being is there's no better way to insure a patch will hold than to re-install it in the tire and bring it up to pressure. The bonus is that you have a demonstrable way to see if it's holding air, ie check it prior to each ride. If time is of the essence I will install a new tube (after finding the reason for the puncture) and continue. Once I'm home I'll patch the punctured tube and switch it with the new one I installed on the road, then put the new tube back in my saddlebag. That way I know for sure that both are good.

veloz

I patch tubes at home and always put the patched tube in a saddlebag. It's not uncommon to give it to another rider who's stranded. It's no big deal to give away an old tube and I always have a patch kit in my bag for those real unlucky days. I've never had a patch fail and most of my tubes have multiple patches.

cyccommute 

I have seen a difference, in real time. My local co-op provides a patching station for no charge (donations are always willing accepted). For most of the 10 years I’ve been at the co-op, they used Rema patches and Rema vulcanizing fluid (8oz cans). Because of cost considerations, they decided to switch over to Slime rubber cement...labeled as such on the can...and Clark patches. Patch failure by clients and by volunteers went from nearly nonexistent to 50% to 60%. They may have saved money on the patches and cement but they spend more money on the wastage.

I’ve seen patches fail all the time. Not mine, as I use Rema and have for decades, but I’ve seen lots and lots of them at my co-op and the theme of this thread suggests that many others don’t trust tube patches. People don’t trust them enough that many people just throw away tubes rather than patch them.

I’m not sowing any more fear, uncertainty or doubt about off brand patches then they deserve. My conclusion about Rema’s products aren’t based on anything information that the Rema has produced. I had to search far, wide, and for a long time to find the information I have found. It’s buried in material safety data sheets (MSDS), patents, and scholarly articles. I’ve had to do a whole lot of research to learn what I have about how the cold vulcanization process works and how Rema uses it. Based on what I have learned, I’m the one making the claims, not Rema. I tell people what I have learned to help them be confident in a patching job so that there isn’t even a question like the one raised above. Just look at the responses above as to how many people don’t trust their patch jobs

Rema doesn’t go shouting that their system is better than others. Their website is understated to the point of being boring. Slime’s website, for example, is flashier and makes more claims than Rema does. Rema isn’t the one tooting their horn. People who use the product...from bicyclists to automobile tire repair shops...are the ones tooting the Rema horn.

Iride01 

I suppose another factor might be how often one flats. I'll go well over a year sometimes two years. Not sure what my personal best is for time between flats. But many times when I might have patched a tube on the road, I found my cement too dried up in the previously unopened little tube.

Also as I don't flat very often, I certainly don't get a chance to keep my skill with patching up to par. Though I know for those that do it regularly it's simple and foolproof.

For me it's not foolproof. And that is why I prefer to make a $4.00 new tube my first choice. Though I have occasionally put a patched tube back in my tire, I still find too many uses for old tubes around the house and workshop.

$4.00 dollars once every few years isn't going to break the bank for me.

Racing Dan

This conversation weird.

My current $2 kit, from an auto parts store, that Ive been using for more than a year has a tube that says "rubber solution". I glued one more patch to a random tube, to make absolutely certain Im not blowing smoke up your backside. It too instantly fused to the tube, as expected. As noted I've never seen such a patch job fail later. Cant imagine what ppl are afraid of or what they do to make it not work.

YMMV ... :-)

cyccommute 

I’m not saying that the patch doesn’t adhere to the tube. I’ve patched enough tubes with bad patch kits to know that’s the way it works. I have seen patch jobs fail later...lots of them. At my co-op we patch tubes (2 patches maximum) and sell them used for $2. I throw away approximately 1/4 of them because the patch comes off, especially after they went to the cheap patches and rubber cement.

As a rule, I don’t reinflate tubes after patching...at least not for quite a while after...because the patch will pull away from the adhesive due to the different properties of the rubber used for the tube and patch. But after a Rema patched tube has time to react, I have no issues with inflating a Rema patched tube outside of the tire to as large as it will go, days, weeks, months, or years down the line. The patch holds because it is fused to the rubber of the tube through new rubber bonds. A rubber cement patch will often pull off under that kind of strain and is more likely to do so with age.

I know you aren’t trying to blow smoke up my backside but realize that I’m not doing that to you either. I’ve had probably more experience with patching tubes than most anyone else...ten years at a co-op with thousands of tube patchings. I knew what worked before I got to the shop and my experiences there have simply confirmed what I already knew. I have no issue with putting a repaired tube in a tire. I have no issue with putting a tube that has been patched up to 30 times in a tire. Most of my tubes last at least that long and it’s not the patches that kill the tube. It’s usually the stem that gives up the ghost.

DiabloScott

According to the patch proponents in this thread, there is essentially no difference in value between a properly patched tube and a new one.
I.e. it's exactly the same deal to give away a new tube as an old one.

I've given away a few tubes, but most of the ones that see time in my saddle bag go in my own tires.

AmelieGagnon

I prefer testing the patched tube in a spare wheel before putting it in as a spare. I get used to do it and I quess it is more functional