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Do you put patched tubes back in your saddlebag?

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Do you put patched tubes back in your saddlebag?

Old 12-31-20, 03:24 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
That isn't what he said.

He said thorns have a tendency to collect in certain areas so you run a chance of getting a second flat in that geological area. Which is true. I once rode over a 20 foot stretch of road getting 2 flats at the same exact time on each of the 2 tires. Thorns gather in the same area.
Thank you.

When I used to live in the UK they would trim the hedges with a tractor-based cutter, and if the hedge had a lot of blackthorn it did happen that I got more than one puncture on the same lane.
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Old 12-31-20, 09:03 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Geepig View Post
Thank you.

When I used to live in the UK they would trim the hedges with a tractor-based cutter, and if the hedge had a lot of blackthorn it did happen that I got more than one puncture on the same lane.
Exactly! As I mentioned, I have gotten 2 flats, front and back at the exact same time in a thorn infested area.

Just too funny, some of the self appointed experts. Lacking reading comprehension and giving expert advice on things they don't really know of. Take a look at the expert advice in the tire directional thread. Who is the real peanut gallery?
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Old 12-31-20, 10:25 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
Exactly! As I mentioned, I have gotten 2 flats, front and back at the exact same time in a thorn infested area.

Just too funny, some of the self appointed experts. Lacking reading comprehension and giving expert advice on things they don't really know of.
So youíve never made an mistake? Never misunderstood what someone said or wrote? Are you Mary Poppins...Ēpractically perfect in every wayĒ? Except you leave out the ďpracticallyĒ?

I have as much experience with flats as most and far more than many. When I say that Iíve had 30 patches on a tube, thatís just the most Iíve had on one. I have many tubes with many patches. I live in an area where goatheads are everywhere. I even got a goathead flat in November...after Thanksgiving! But seldom do I get more than a single flat at a time. Even here in the middle of the bullseye of goatheads, I only carry a single tube as I seldom need more than one. I have had instances of getting more than one puncture but those are rare. I also help patch a lot of flats at my co-op...most of which are goathead related...and seldom do I have to patch more than a single puncture. Yes, there can be a lot of things that can cause flats in one place or another. Seldom do you get more than one.

Take a look at the expert advice in the tire directional thread. Who is the real peanut gallery?
So you arenít perfect! Do you know the meaning of ďpeanut galleryĒ? The short version is thatís where the heckling comes from. In the thread you are referring to there were a bunch of people making jokes that were helping, thus the ďdonít listen to the peanut galleryĒ post. If you look at tires that are directional, they usually have an arrow on the tire showing a direction for rotation. What most...no, all...of them show on tires with chevrons is that the point of the chevron matches the directional arrow.
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Old 12-31-20, 10:51 AM
  #79  
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Interesting...
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Old 12-31-20, 03:44 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
I ran into such a situation on a Senegalese coast. At the top of the crisis, I had 3 flats during one day in kevlar reinforced tires, which gets me wonder where relying on a spare tube would have got me . I did not appreciate, in particular, how small and well hidden the broken off tips of the goathead thorns could be. I recovered by changing my riding habits and avoiding road shoulders that ventured into grasses. I also started examining the tires twice a day and removing any thorns that were starting their progress towards the tubes.
I got my thorns riding on the road, not on the shoulder because out where I rode there was no shoulder, just the white line and then very soft sand where many a car had gotten off into overcorrected and flipped over. I was riding on kevlar tires initially but when they do any good I added a Mr. Tuffy, and those darn goat heads would even go through that liner! But my flats went down to about 4 a week. I got really fast at flats! I carried a spare tube, and back in those days a spare tire as well, but I always tried to patch the flat before going to my spare tube. I even tried adding a thick thorn resistant tire with Slime, that didn't help at all, still got my average of 4 flats a week. Then about 7 years later a bike shop guy in Bakersfield told me to try a Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire with an ultralight tube and no liner, so I did and no more flats after that. Those tires didn't ride all that well but they stopped the flats so I didn't care.
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Old 12-31-20, 05:37 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
I got my thorns riding on the road, not on the shoulder because out where I rode there was no shoulder, just the white line and then very soft sand where many a car had gotten off into overcorrected and flipped over. I was riding on kevlar tires initially but when they do any good I added a Mr. Tuffy, and those darn goat heads would even go through that liner! But my flats went down to about 4 a week. I got really fast at flats! I carried a spare tube, and back in those days a spare tire as well, but I always tried to patch the flat before going to my spare tube. I even tried adding a thick thorn resistant tire with Slime, that didn't help at all, still got my average of 4 flats a week. Then about 7 years later a bike shop guy in Bakersfield told me to try a Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire with an ultralight tube and no liner, so I did and no more flats after that. Those tires didn't ride all that well but they stopped the flats so I didn't care.
Good to know about the Armadillos! My situation was puzzling as I was riding for weeks across the area without any problems and then flats started coming at such a rate that I was getting afraid that I could run out of patches! I was desperate to figure out was going on and the culprit turned out to be a particular stretch of road leading to my workplace, where pavement was practically bombed out. Both cars and myself sought a smoother surface along the shoulder. I tied the flats to what I thought was an improved riding strategy. After I returned to suffering through the potholes, the flats went away. Still I looked the tires over both after getting to work and home, seeking the stuck goatheads just in case.

The tires were Marathons. I got Marathon Plusses since for the particular bike, but I am not sure about riding them and have not been yet back to the area where I suffered. I had one such tire on another bike and it was heavy riding. The size is 16" of a folder, so it is not that I shop around for one brand or another - must take what is available. Schwalbe is actually good in their offer across tire diameters.
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Old 12-31-20, 07:01 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
So you’ve never made an mistake?
Ha ha ha, that is too funny! No, I never made "AN" mistake!

I read the first line of your post and didn't bother with the rest, genius.
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Old 01-01-21, 12:40 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
Good to know about the Armadillos! My situation was puzzling as I was riding for weeks across the area without any problems and then flats started coming at such a rate that I was getting afraid that I could run out of patches! I was desperate to figure out was going on and the culprit turned out to be a particular stretch of road leading to my workplace, where pavement was practically bombed out. Both cars and myself sought a smoother surface along the shoulder. I tied the flats to what I thought was an improved riding strategy. After I returned to suffering through the potholes, the flats went away. Still I looked the tires over both after getting to work and home, seeking the stuck goatheads just in case.

The tires were Marathons. I got Marathon Plusses since for the particular bike, but I am not sure about riding them and have not been yet back to the area where I suffered. I had one such tire on another bike and it was heavy riding. The size is 16" of a folder, so it is not that I shop around for one brand or another - must take what is available. Schwalbe is actually good in their offer across tire diameters.
Those Marathons are good tires, probably better than the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tires, but the Marathon does weigh more but not much more, they should be able to handle thorns with no issues, back when I was going through my thing those Marathons were not around.
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Old 01-01-21, 07:33 AM
  #84  
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Marathon+ is a Heavy tyre. Only use it if you MUST or on a bike that you absolutely can not be bothered patching. Last forever tho and IS bombproof.
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Old 01-01-21, 12:35 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Marathon+ is a Heavy tyre. Only use it if you MUST or on a bike that you absolutely can not be bothered patching. Last forever tho and IS bombproof.
I think the Marathon plus is a bit of an overkill, but if they absolutely hate the idea of getting a flat, and they want the tire to last as least three times as long as a standard tire, then the weight may not be of much concern.

I do bike camping, and getting a flat on a loaded bike can be a real pain, I have to completely remove the panniers and all my strap on gear, not to mention if the flat is on the rear I have to deal with the mechanicals, which in it by itself is not a big deal but when combined with all the stuff it lends to the headache. I know I don't want to be pushing a heavy tire either, the Kenda Kwick Drumlin K Shield Plus tires that came with my bike weigh 1,600 grams EACH! That's a lot of weight, And the Marathon Plus is close to 1,000 grams a piece, so I decided to go to the Marathon Supreme which is only 600 grams apiece. I haven't been able to buy them yet due to a shortage from the Covid, but when they come in I'm getting a pair of those so I can reduce my rotational weight by 2,000 grams total. Kenda did redesign the tire that I have and the new one takes about 200 grams off the tire, but that's still a very heavy tire, it's the heaviest tire I've ever seen; I'm not sure why Masi decided to put a tire made for E-bikes on the Giramondo 700c bike which is pedal-powered, but it is a hard-wearing tire, I have about 2,000 miles of loaded miles and they have no signs of even beginning to wear.
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Old 01-01-21, 07:02 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
I think the Marathon plus is a bit of an overkill, but if they absolutely hate the idea of getting a flat, and they want the tire to last as least three times as long as a standard tire, then the weight may not be of much concern.
Iíve had very good luck for many decades with tire liners. Iíve had a few flats from them wearing on the tube but that doesnít happen very often. The Marathon Plus (and like tires) have the same liner that is just sealed in the rubber of the tire. The plus side of the tire liners is that they can be used for dozens of sets of tires and arenít necessarily tied to a particular tire.

I have been on rides where we had an epic number of flats...27 between 4 people...and I was the only one without a flat, including one person with tubeless. My wife got one of those 27 because I forgot to put a liner in one of her tires, the tubeless guy got 6 and one poor soul ended up with 20.

I mocked the Goathead Gods and ended up with 60 the next time I went into the same ride the next time I went. Since then I put on sacrificial tires (used ones from my co-op), tire liners, and Slime tubes. I havenít even picked up a goathead much less gotten a flat after doing on a few different trips.
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Old 01-01-21, 07:34 PM
  #87  
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Yes, there is the breaking point. A friend asked me to put new tires on his son's bmx. He brought it by a week later and said there was a problem with them. Of course there was, they were ridden through a field of star thistles. I showed his son what they looked like and gave him a don't go there.
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Old 01-01-21, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Iíve had very good luck for many decades with tire liners. Iíve had a few flats from them wearing on the tube but that doesnít happen very often. The Marathon Plus (and like tires) have the same liner that is just sealed in the rubber of the tire. The plus side of the tire liners is that they can be used for dozens of sets of tires and arenít necessarily tied to a particular tire.
Ha! This sounds like a solution for me. I am afraid of getting stuck somewhere having only Marathon+ and suffer from the poor ride quality while I might not really need them for the particular area. Taking the liners along for a far-away venture does not seem that taxing - I take minor maintenance and repair items anyway. Is there any particular brand of the liners that one should choose? Are ultralight liners just as good? I anyway ride always tires that have some reinforcement but occasionally clearly not strong enough. Any supplementary liner advice? Thanks.
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Old 01-01-21, 07:40 PM
  #89  
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A patch which is correctly applied will fuse to the rubber of the tube and become as one piece. You could hedge your bet by not folding the tube right where there is a patch.
I agree with dsbrantjr. The only thing I would add is use the proper vulcanizing fluid and dust the tube liberally with talcum powder. This will prevent the tube from sticking. That's important if it has a patch.
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Old 01-01-21, 08:36 PM
  #90  
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You're supposed to roll the tube not fold it when storing it in your saddlebag, ever notice how tubes come in the box? Why is that? because folds can lead to weak spots and cracks at the fold. So if you roll the tube it puts no stress on any patches either.

Slime tubes are ineffective with high-pressure tires, the stuff blows out of a hole at pressures exceeding 65 pounds, that was my experience using them.

I had goat heads penetrate Mr. Tuffy's as I had mentioned earlier. I have an experiment for you, take a Mr. Tuffy and try to push a tack through it, it goes through fairly easily. I tried that when I was trying to compare the Mr. Tuffy with a Panaracer Flat Away liner, I could not get the tack to penetrated the Flat Away liner. The other thing was that I could cut the Mr. Tuffy with a pair of scissors like butter but I was hurting my hand trying to cut the Flat Away. The disadvantage with the Flat Away is that it's a one tire liner, you have to put a new liner in whenever you get a new tire, and those liners cost $15 apiece. What I finally figured out was on my touring bike, my weekend bike, and on the commuting bike, is that I only put in the Flat Away liner in just the rear tire only because the front is easier to repair, and it costs less since I'm only using one. Also, the Flat Away is about 100 grams less in weight vs the Mr. Tuffy.
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Old 01-01-21, 09:16 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
You're supposed to roll the tube not fold it when storing it in your saddlebag, ever notice how tubes come in the box? Why is that? because folds can lead to weak spots and cracks at the fold. So if you roll the tube it puts no stress on any patches either.
I have never seen a tube rolled in the box. Every one of them that Iíve ever taken out of a box was folded in about 3Ē sections. While it is true that folds can crack, that takes a long time exposed to light and ozone. I have always folded tube and put them in a plastic sandwich bag. Thatís all that is needed to cushion the tube and to avoid degradation.

Granted my tubes arenít in my bag for all that long, considering the number of flats I do get.

Slime tubes are ineffective with high-pressure tires, the stuff blows out of a hole at pressures exceeding 65 pounds, that was my experience using them.
Iím not a fan of Slime (nor of tubeless sealant, for that matter). The only time I use Slime is when Iím going off-reading in southeastern Coloradoís canyon lands. As bad as goatheads are here along the Front Range, they are ten times worse east and south of Pueblo. I donít use them at any other time and I only use them on low pressure tires.

I had goat heads penetrate Mr. Tuffy's as I had mentioned earlier. I have an experiment for you, take a Mr. Tuffy and try to push a tack through it, it goes through fairly easily. I tried that when I was trying to compare the Mr. Tuffy with a Panaracer Flat Away liner, I could not get the tack to penetrated the Flat Away liner. The other thing was that I could cut the Mr. Tuffy with a pair of scissors like butter but I was hurting my hand trying to cut the Flat Away. The disadvantage with the Flat Away is that it's a one tire liner, you have to put a new liner in whenever you get a new tire, and those liners cost $15 apiece. What I finally figured out was on my touring bike, my weekend bike, and on the commuting bike, is that I only put in the Flat Away liner in just the rear tire only because the front is easier to repair, and it costs less since I'm only using one. Also, the Flat Away is about 100 grams less in weight vs the Mr. Tuffy.
Nothing is perfect. As I pointed out above, the guy with tubeless...which is supposedly impervious to flats...got 6 of them on that ride. And I did get 60 punctures on my next ride to those canyons. But, generally, they are fairly effective, reusable, and relatively cheap because they can be used through dozens of tires. I like something I can reuse over a single use item even if it has a few downsides.
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Old 01-01-21, 09:27 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
You must lead a blessed life, at least as it applies to flats.
I'm especially blessed because I haven't had a flat in years and that was two blocks from the house. I do carry a new tube, patches and an inflater in my saddle pack because I know things like bragging about not having flats will leave me 20 miles from home with a flat.
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Old 01-02-21, 09:45 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I have never seen a tube rolled in the box. Every one of them that Iíve ever taken out of a box was folded in about 3Ē sections. While it is true that folds can crack, that takes a long time exposed to light and ozone. I have always folded tube and put them in a plastic sandwich bag. Thatís all that is needed to cushion the tube and to avoid degradation.

Granted my tubes arenít in my bag for all that long, considering the number of flats I do get.



Iím not a fan of Slime (nor of tubeless sealant, for that matter). The only time I use Slime is when Iím going off-reading in southeastern Coloradoís canyon lands. As bad as goatheads are here along the Front Range, they are ten times worse east and south of Pueblo. I donít use them at any other time and I only use them on low pressure tires.



Nothing is perfect. As I pointed out above, the guy with tubeless...which is supposedly impervious to flats...got 6 of them on that ride. And I did get 60 punctures on my next ride to those canyons. But, generally, they are fairly effective, reusable, and relatively cheap because they can be used through dozens of tires. I like something I can reuse over a single use item even if it has a few downsides.
Weird about the tube being rolled or folded, I use almost exclusively Specialized Ultralight Turbo tubes and they are always rolled, I also have used Vittoria tubes in the past and they too were rolled from what I remember, I can't recall what other brands I've used, but I can't recall finding any folded tubes. The only folded tubes I've ever got were the ones that were thorn resistant due to the thickness of the tubes which made it impossible to roll.

I wonder if a Panaracer Flat Away liner would work in a tubeless tire since they stick to the inside of the tire instead of just laying. I don't use tubeless tires so I can't experiment to find out, but it seems like they could work.

A few years back right after I got my Lynskey in 2013 I installed a Panasonic FlatAway liner in the rear on the brand new tire, about 4 or 5 rides later I cut my rear tire about 1/2 an inch that penetrated the cords of the tire, which I didn't find the cut until I did my usual after ride inspection, which meant of course the tire didn't go flat. So I dismounted the tire and I saw a larger darker spot on the Panaracer FlatAway liner and one very small on. I peeled off a small section of the liner and saw a 1/8th inch long cut on the inside of the tire so I booted the tire with a piece of Park Boot Patch and laid back down the FlatAway liner (I didn't bother looking at the small one from the inside). I inflated the tire then took some Super Glue I got at a hobby store (stronger stuff than the usual store-bought super glues) and filled in the cut (which I have to reapply about every other ride) but I rode that tire till it wore out without any further issues. When I went to throw away the worn-out tire I looked at the FlatAway liner and there were several dark spots on the liner that something had penetrated the tire and was stopped by the liner. The liner for some reason forms a dark spot whenever something hits it so it leaves a tall tale sign that it worked. Of course, no liner is 100% flat-proof, but I know that the FlatAway works better than Mr. Tuffy.

And the other thing about plastic liners like the Mr. Tuffy is that they do make the ride quality a bit harsher, whereas the Panaracer FlatAway is cloth and actually cushions the ride a bit.

I guess since the Panaracer FlatAway liner is a stick-on liner, a person could use both, a FlatAway and a Mr. Tuffy, that would all but guarantee no flats! Or use the newer lightweight Mr. Tuffy liner with the FlatAway liner. Not sure though how good the lightweight version of Mr. Tuffy is compared to the regular Mr. Tuffy liner.
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Old 01-02-21, 07:33 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
You're supposed to roll the tube not fold it when storing it in your saddlebag, ever notice how tubes come in the box? Why is that? because folds can lead to weak spots and cracks at the fold. So if you roll the tube it puts no stress on any patches either.
Rolling your tubes still creates two folds on either side of the tube for the entire circumference.
Yes, they frequently come rolled up - I submit that probably has more to do with packaging efficiency than quality control.
I just unpacked one to check. If it's not obvious, they folded it in half and then rolled it.



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Old 01-02-21, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Weird about the tube being rolled or folded, I use almost exclusively Specialized Ultralight Turbo tubes and they are always rolled, I also have used Vittoria tubes in the past and they too were rolled from what I remember, I can't recall what other brands I've used, but I can't recall finding any folded tubes. The only folded tubes I've ever got were the ones that were thorn resistant due to the thickness of the tubes which made it impossible to roll.
The ones I use are the from all over the place. I currently have tubes from REI, Quality Bicycle Products, Specialized, and others. All of them are oblong boxes. A rolled tube wouldnít fit in that kind of box. It would need a square box. Iíve seen few rolled tubes in bulk tubes but they are uncommon in my experience.

I wonder if a Panaracer Flat Away liner would work in a tubeless tire since they stick to the inside of the tire instead of just laying. I don't use tubeless tires so I can't experiment to find out, but it seems like they could work.
Theoretically. But the problem is the liquid of the sealant. I donít know that you can mount a tubeless tire without sealant as most of them are leak air through the casing. Car tires are far thicker so they hold air better without a sealant. In other words, the liner might work to prevent punctures to a dry tubeless tire but the dry tubeless tire would leak enough air that they would go flat anyway.

And the other thing about plastic liners like the Mr. Tuffy is that they do make the ride quality a bit harsher, whereas the Panaracer FlatAway is cloth and actually cushions the ride a bit.

I guess since the Panaracer FlatAway liner is a stick-on liner, a person could use both, a FlatAway and a Mr. Tuffy, that would all but guarantee no flats! Or use the newer lightweight Mr. Tuffy liner with the FlatAway liner. Not sure though how good the lightweight version of Mr. Tuffy is compared to the regular Mr. Tuffy liner.
People say that about the Mr. Tuffy but Iíve never noticed that much of a difference in ride quality. I have mounted tires without them and I really canít tell if they are there or not. On the other hand, a tire like the Marathon Plus has the liner in it already so itís not going to be that much different in ride than just using a Mr. Tuffy any way.

Your bringing up the Kevlar liner did remind me that I have tried them in the past. I seem to recall that the ones I used cracked and broke inside the tire. I think thatís what turned me off to them. That and the cost as well as single use nature. I think they worked well enough. On the other hand, Iím still using the Tuffys I got back then.
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Old 01-02-21, 09:17 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Rolling your tubes still creates two folds on either side of the tube for the entire circumference.
Yes, they frequently come rolled up - I submit that probably has more to do with packaging efficiency than quality control.
I just unpacked one to check. If it's not obvious, they folded it in half and then rolled it.



Yeah, but rolling reduces about 90% of the folds, that's what mine look like coming out of the box too, and I simply return the tube to that type of roll before stuffing it into a thick plastic bag which then goes into the saddlebag.
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Old 01-03-21, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Yeah, but rolling reduces about 90% of the folds, that's what mine look like coming out of the box too, and I simply return the tube to that type of roll before stuffing it into a thick plastic bag which then goes into the saddlebag.
Okay, I think we got a failure to communicate here. When you say “roll”, I see this



When I say “fold”, I see what what DiabloScott has posted.

I’m not a fan of the roll like above because the the stem sticks out and pokes other things in the bag. “Folding” the tube with the stem on the inside cuts down on that problem.
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Old 01-03-21, 10:20 AM
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Wish those tubes could stay in there long enough to crack. If I don't use them, someone else gets them.
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Old 01-03-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Yes, really. Iíve looked into this numerous times due to these kinds of discussions. Thereís a fair amount of sophisticated chemistry involved in Rema patches that isnít used anywhere else. Look at any number of none Rema kits. They almost all say ďrubber cementĒ. The ďglueĒ in most patch kits is identical to Elmerís Rubber Cement which is just latex in a solvent suspension. Rema vulcanizing fluid contains N-Ethylcyclohexylamine. There is a sulfur containing compound in the patch that is activated by the amine in the vulcanizing fluid. Between the two, they react to form new sulfur bonds into the rubber which are more permanent than those formed with rubber cement.

Failures with the Rema can happen but they are usually due to user error. Failures with rubber cement is due to bond failure.
There are other ways to produce a cold vulcanizing bond. Park, and many others, use zinc dibutyldithiocarbamate or a related zinc thiocarbamate. This is the system that most automotive patch systems use. These won't show up on the SDS, for the same reason the rubber in cement isn't listed, because at the levels used, they're not a safety concern. But It's a perfectly acceptable system.

I pretty exclusively use Rema patches, purchased in bulk, because they're mechanically the best pataches around, but I use vulcanizing fluid made by someone else, because it's readily available at the auto parts store, and cheaper than buying little tubes of rema fluid. Works great.

Facebook just reminded me of this repair I did, five years ago, which is still in use. (so is the can of vulcanized fluid used, for that matter.)

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Old 01-03-21, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dscheidt View Post
I pretty exclusively use Rema patches, purchased in bulk, because they're mechanically the best pataches around, but I use vulcanizing fluid made by someone else, because it's readily available at the auto parts store, and cheaper than buying little tubes of rema fluid.
Every on-line bike part supplier and their brother carry Rema fluid in cans . It will last a lifetime for an individual cyclist provided it will get diluted a bit every few years.
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