One man's concept of the "perfect" hybrid
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 202
Bikes: Canyon Roadlite AL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
4 Posts
One man's concept of the "perfect" hybrid
I've owned only two bikes during my last twenty car-free years, a KHS Cross Sport and, after it got stolen, a Jamis Coda Comp. I bought the Jamis new in 2004, and have put well over 15,000 miles on it since. The fit is perfect. It has never let me down once, excepting for reasons directly attributable to my own stupidity. The frame finish is *gorgeous* - it's raw polished and clearcoated steel, or at least it just looks like it. I haven't seen a similar finish on any steel frame. So, when I finally realized it was wearing out and it was time for a new bike, there was no question in my mind - my beloved Jamis was getting new clothes instead of a replacement.
For the last year, I have been researching and accumulating parts. I wanted to duplicate the fit, and use components of the strongest and highest-possible quality. Having said that, I deliberately didn't use as much carbon as I could have, because there's too little data available about the long-term survival of carbon in hard daily use. This bike needs to last the rest of my life. Every spare penny I've had all year has gone into this. When it was finally all in one place, and I went to strip the frame for delivery to the builder (I could have done the build, but there was too_much I'd never done before, and if I messed up a $250 carbon fork I'd be pretty unhappy)....I couldn't get the seatpost out. It had welded itself in place (refer to the above comment about my own stupidity).
Ultimately, the shop had to melt the old seatpost out. Had it been anything but a steel frame (maybe Ti) with an aluminum seatpost, the frame would be in the trash right now. Steel, for the win.
I picked it up Thursday. Everything but the frame is brand-new.
Before:
After:
Drivetrain: Sugino OX801D, 48/34; SRAM X.9 rear, Force front; SRAM Double Tap Flat Bar shifters; KMS X10-SL chain; PG-1050 cassette, 12-28; MKS Touring Lite pedals, Yokozuna Reaction cables.
Cockpit: All Ritchey WCS in Wet Black, WCS Marathon seat, ODI Rogue lock-on grips.
Wheels: All DT Swiss, RR465 w/370 hubs; Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires.
Brakes: Avid BB7 front, Single Digit 7 rear, Speed Dial 7 levers, Yokozuna Reaction cables.
Fork: Carver full-carbon.
There's a complete Pitlock set on it, including headset and caliper bolts. Not pictured are the SKS Raceblades awaiting installation. The bag can hold a spare tube, my toolkit, a mini-pump, my wallet and cellphone, which is all I need.
Riding it is indescribable. The front end weighs no more than before (subjectively), as the carbon steerer (previous fork was carbon/aluminum) probably washes the extra brake weight. The tires are >100g lighter apiece. There's 5mm less rake and 5mm less A-C. I'm amazed at how much quicker the steering is. It would feel downright twitchy for someone who didn't like it that way, as I do. I now have 6 ratios in my useful gear-inch range, as opposed to 4 before. It feels like I've gone from a Civic to an M3. The shifters were a completely intuitive adaptation; it seems like I've been working with single-lever shifters all along. Careful as I was with component matching, the riding position is absolutely unchanged. The disc has a mushier feel at the lever, but the response is linear, ultimate power with one finger is at least equal, and it makes not a sound. It's a *lot* easier to modulate. The bike is so much tighter than previously that it's a revelation just how worn-out it was before.
Yeah, the finish is now mucked up. I've an email in to Jamis requesting information on the finish - the guy who melted the post out said only the clearcoat burned off. He thinks it actually is raw polished metal. Refinishing will wait until I'm working again, and if worst comes to worst I'll have it painted white.
If there's a happier rider at this moment, I don't know who it is.
For the last year, I have been researching and accumulating parts. I wanted to duplicate the fit, and use components of the strongest and highest-possible quality. Having said that, I deliberately didn't use as much carbon as I could have, because there's too little data available about the long-term survival of carbon in hard daily use. This bike needs to last the rest of my life. Every spare penny I've had all year has gone into this. When it was finally all in one place, and I went to strip the frame for delivery to the builder (I could have done the build, but there was too_much I'd never done before, and if I messed up a $250 carbon fork I'd be pretty unhappy)....I couldn't get the seatpost out. It had welded itself in place (refer to the above comment about my own stupidity).
Ultimately, the shop had to melt the old seatpost out. Had it been anything but a steel frame (maybe Ti) with an aluminum seatpost, the frame would be in the trash right now. Steel, for the win.
I picked it up Thursday. Everything but the frame is brand-new.
Before:
After:
Drivetrain: Sugino OX801D, 48/34; SRAM X.9 rear, Force front; SRAM Double Tap Flat Bar shifters; KMS X10-SL chain; PG-1050 cassette, 12-28; MKS Touring Lite pedals, Yokozuna Reaction cables.
Cockpit: All Ritchey WCS in Wet Black, WCS Marathon seat, ODI Rogue lock-on grips.
Wheels: All DT Swiss, RR465 w/370 hubs; Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires.
Brakes: Avid BB7 front, Single Digit 7 rear, Speed Dial 7 levers, Yokozuna Reaction cables.
Fork: Carver full-carbon.
There's a complete Pitlock set on it, including headset and caliper bolts. Not pictured are the SKS Raceblades awaiting installation. The bag can hold a spare tube, my toolkit, a mini-pump, my wallet and cellphone, which is all I need.
Riding it is indescribable. The front end weighs no more than before (subjectively), as the carbon steerer (previous fork was carbon/aluminum) probably washes the extra brake weight. The tires are >100g lighter apiece. There's 5mm less rake and 5mm less A-C. I'm amazed at how much quicker the steering is. It would feel downright twitchy for someone who didn't like it that way, as I do. I now have 6 ratios in my useful gear-inch range, as opposed to 4 before. It feels like I've gone from a Civic to an M3. The shifters were a completely intuitive adaptation; it seems like I've been working with single-lever shifters all along. Careful as I was with component matching, the riding position is absolutely unchanged. The disc has a mushier feel at the lever, but the response is linear, ultimate power with one finger is at least equal, and it makes not a sound. It's a *lot* easier to modulate. The bike is so much tighter than previously that it's a revelation just how worn-out it was before.
Yeah, the finish is now mucked up. I've an email in to Jamis requesting information on the finish - the guy who melted the post out said only the clearcoat burned off. He thinks it actually is raw polished metal. Refinishing will wait until I'm working again, and if worst comes to worst I'll have it painted white.
If there's a happier rider at this moment, I don't know who it is.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,061
Bikes: 2012 Trek DS 8.5 all weather hybrid, 2008 LeMond Poprad cyclocross, 1992 Cannondale R500 roadbike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1581 Post(s)
Liked 1,189 Times
in
605 Posts
Great looking bike, SD ... I am totally sympathetic to these kinds of efforts: once one finds a frame one loves, go to town on it!
I did the same thing, albeit much more quickly, with my '10 Spec. Sirrus Comp; once I knew the frame just 'worked' for me, I morphed it into my 'keeper'.
Nicely done! and nice to run across another 'one bike'(?) kind of person.
P.S. How do you like the Double Tap (flat bar) shifters? I have 'em/love 'em.
Edit: sorry, ignore P.S. -- you've commented!
I did the same thing, albeit much more quickly, with my '10 Spec. Sirrus Comp; once I knew the frame just 'worked' for me, I morphed it into my 'keeper'.
Nicely done! and nice to run across another 'one bike'(?) kind of person.
P.S. How do you like the Double Tap (flat bar) shifters? I have 'em/love 'em.
Edit: sorry, ignore P.S. -- you've commented!
Last edited by badger1; 09-08-12 at 05:32 PM.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 202
Bikes: Canyon Roadlite AL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
4 Posts
Worth every penny, and I'm not looking back.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1581 Post(s)
Liked 1,189 Times
in
605 Posts
To expand a little: they don't have the "expensive" feel of the Shimanos they replaced, and they're slightly noisier. As is the rear der. I suspect much of this will go away as they wear in. Downshifting requires intent - as the throw is (understandably) a bit longer than a bespoke downshift level, you have to be pretty positive about actuating it. It drops two gears at once easily, which I *love* as my riding involves red lights.
Worth every penny, and I'm not looking back.
Worth every penny, and I'm not looking back.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 202
Bikes: Canyon Roadlite AL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
4 Posts
Agreed; your experience corresponds with mine. FWIW, they do become 'smoother' over time; I have the 10spd ones; been using them just over a year now, with Apex f/r derailleurs, Apex crank (48/34) and Force cassette (12-32); DuraAce cables. I suspect it's just a question of getting used to them; I don't think they have a ball-bearing mechanism, which is most certainly a part of the (higher-end) Shimano shifter 'feel'. I note, however, that SRAM's new dedicated 'trekking' groupset -- ViaGT -- does use double-lever b/b shifters (presumably derived from XX/X0 internals). Interesting!
#8
Full Member
In all, that is an amazing looking bicycle! I absolutely love the fact that you took something you've ridden and maintained for all these years and rebuilt it so beautifully. It's very inspiring to continue tinkering and know that something with a few miles can be put back on the road for another 15k miles of service.
I know the guys at my LBS would have just steered you towards a brand new Trek 7.5 FX
I know the guys at my LBS would have just steered you towards a brand new Trek 7.5 FX
#9
Ha ha ha ha ha
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Gold Coast; Australia
Posts: 4,554
Bikes: 2004 ORBEA Mitis2 Plus Carbon, 2007 Cannondale Bad Boy Si Disc, 2012 Trek Gary Fisher Collection Marlin WSD 29er Aldi Big Box (Polygon) 650b
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
7 Posts
It's a beautiful bike but a pity the shop resorted to heating the frame to get the post out.
Maybe I had the same problem, (steel frame and alloy post) but the shop used the old proven method of cutting the seat post down to about 2 inches above the frame, then cutting the inside of the post diagonally through the gap where the seat post clamps. Then they simply twist the post into it's self like an old sardine tin and perfect. No damaged paint or frame etc.
Maybe I had the same problem, (steel frame and alloy post) but the shop used the old proven method of cutting the seat post down to about 2 inches above the frame, then cutting the inside of the post diagonally through the gap where the seat post clamps. Then they simply twist the post into it's self like an old sardine tin and perfect. No damaged paint or frame etc.
#10
Senior Member
What do you mean the seatpost was melted? Did they use sodium hydroxide to dissolve the aluminum tube or do you mean a torch? Torch doesn't sound right because the aluminum would expand faster than your steel frame.
If you're going to have the frame painted, you may want to research powder coating also. Powder coating should be more durable and the cost is likely comparable to painting if you are having it done professionally.
If you're going to have the frame painted, you may want to research powder coating also. Powder coating should be more durable and the cost is likely comparable to painting if you are having it done professionally.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 202
Bikes: Canyon Roadlite AL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
4 Posts
To address the seatpost issue: The seat tube was, quite literally, raised well above the melting point of aluminum to extract what was left of the post. All mechanical means failed. They were operating under my specific instructions to preserve 100% frame integrity at all costs, including sacrificing the finish. The mechanical extraction effort had failed (it broke off, to give you an idea of the mechanical force applied) below the top of the seat tube, allowing no further mechanical intervention except at prohibitive cost per hour, which was the agreed upon compensation for this specific aspect of the rebuild since I'd proven to them that I'd already done all of the "reasonable" things to remove the post. The sodium hydroxide solution would have been a non-starter even had they asked - the byproduct of that reaction is hydrogen gas, and I'm not authorizing anyone to produce explosive gases on my behalf.
Mea culpa. I let that post sit untouched for two years prior, based on the erroneous judgment that the long intervals between seatpost play since owning the bike proved to me that it was OK. Yes, I live at the shore. Yes, I'd never done any regular seatpost movements. Yes, it worked for six years. No, it didn't work for the last two.
Understand, I had attacked this job myself with every mechanical and chemical solution an intensive research effort had shown me might work, for a week and a half, before farming the job out. I had every tool short of a bench vise available to help. At the end attempt - a 24-hour soak in a solution of half acetone and half ATF, filling the upside-down frame until it spilled out the head tube - I was still unable to dislodge the seat tube by banging it hard on a concrete surface. I'm pretty comfortable that my specific demands were served properly by a group of guys who knew what they were doing, and if anyone is interested in a Philadelphia LBS recommendation, the Bicycle Stable on Frankford (off Girard) earned my endorsement.
Mea culpa. I let that post sit untouched for two years prior, based on the erroneous judgment that the long intervals between seatpost play since owning the bike proved to me that it was OK. Yes, I live at the shore. Yes, I'd never done any regular seatpost movements. Yes, it worked for six years. No, it didn't work for the last two.
Understand, I had attacked this job myself with every mechanical and chemical solution an intensive research effort had shown me might work, for a week and a half, before farming the job out. I had every tool short of a bench vise available to help. At the end attempt - a 24-hour soak in a solution of half acetone and half ATF, filling the upside-down frame until it spilled out the head tube - I was still unable to dislodge the seat tube by banging it hard on a concrete surface. I'm pretty comfortable that my specific demands were served properly by a group of guys who knew what they were doing, and if anyone is interested in a Philadelphia LBS recommendation, the Bicycle Stable on Frankford (off Girard) earned my endorsement.
#13
Ha ha ha ha ha
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Gold Coast; Australia
Posts: 4,554
Bikes: 2004 ORBEA Mitis2 Plus Carbon, 2007 Cannondale Bad Boy Si Disc, 2012 Trek Gary Fisher Collection Marlin WSD 29er Aldi Big Box (Polygon) 650b
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
7 Posts
I bet you didn`t try coke cola with a mentos.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 202
Bikes: Canyon Roadlite AL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
4 Posts
/smacks self in head
I knew I forgot something.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to a scale of any sort. At 53, I weigh the same as I did when I was 14 (it's just....redistributed a bit) - never needed to own one.
The bike gained a little weight in the wheels, I think, as opposed to the previous Ritchey Aero/OCR. The disc and hub add a bit. Grips are probably heavier. Everything else is either a wash or a significant weight loss. The whole cockpit is lighter, especially the seatpost which was previously suspension. It was all Ritchey Pro level, now it's all WCS. Saved a bunch on the seat. The stem (previously adjustable) and pedals (previously platform/SPD combo) are significantly lighter. Tires are 20% lighter.
All in all, based on the feel of hefting the bike, I wouldn't be surprised if it's two pounds lighter than the published factory figure of 24.75lb, which I determined to be pretty accurate, back in the day.
I knew I forgot something.
Steel frame with carbon fork ... what's the weight?
The bike gained a little weight in the wheels, I think, as opposed to the previous Ritchey Aero/OCR. The disc and hub add a bit. Grips are probably heavier. Everything else is either a wash or a significant weight loss. The whole cockpit is lighter, especially the seatpost which was previously suspension. It was all Ritchey Pro level, now it's all WCS. Saved a bunch on the seat. The stem (previously adjustable) and pedals (previously platform/SPD combo) are significantly lighter. Tires are 20% lighter.
All in all, based on the feel of hefting the bike, I wouldn't be surprised if it's two pounds lighter than the published factory figure of 24.75lb, which I determined to be pretty accurate, back in the day.
#17
Newbie
Great build, and cool story! How it's workin, four years later?
Last edited by Mihail C.; 12-20-16 at 11:31 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RR3
Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling
36
09-06-15 07:52 AM
4tomic
General Cycling Discussion
12
09-01-14 06:46 PM