justslow

I found an interesting bike on Craigslist for sale at a co-op. I contacted them and asked a question but got a reply instructing me to make an appointment. A 4 hour trip just to ask a question is more than I can do.

I asked them - Do you think it will fit a 5' 9" male rider? I normally ride 19"/53cm/medium frame bikes.

They state the frame size is "small", which leaves me wondering how mixte frame sizes are specified. I know it's impossible to give a solid answer based on a picture and a vague size, but in your experience, do mixte sizes run differently than diamond frame bikes?

The co-op is a ferry ride and long drive for me, so I'm hoping the mixte experts can give me a hint about this bike size and if it's a possible fit for me (5' 9" / 30" inseam / 140lbs).
I know the only way to really find out is to go ride it.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...226812786.html

veganbikes

It may or may not without seeing you on the bike and without knowing measurements nobody will know. It isn't a particularly nice bike or anything of supreme value so I don't know that going to all the trouble for it, is worth it for something with steel rims, cottered cranks and lower end components.

If you are looking for a mixte frame the Soma Buena Vista would be an excellent starting point. It is as far as I can tell still in production by Soma, comes in disc or rim brake options and is a classic mixte style with maybe higher end steel than some of the older ones or at least of similar quality and they have geometry charts to help you out. The big reason for doing this is you can use more modern components and if you have a parts bin you might be able to assemble a neat bike from that. I know I could and have and love the first parts bin bike a lot and it was New Albion which is another brand under Merry Sales (which includes Soma as well). That bike is going strong for 5 years now.

justslow

Thanks @veganbikes. You're right about the components and wheels. I probably need to cool my jets and keep looking. Appreciate the thoughtful reply.

veganbikes

No worries. If you want advice on building out the bike let me know. I love vintage bikes a lot, they look cool and sometimes perform well but the lower end stuff especially things like steel rims and French or Swiss threaded BBs aren't.

You could still make a classic styled bike but with modern components and with fewer issues you will be able to ride more especially if you are in a more remote area. Schelpping on ferries and long drives to get to a local shop sounds fun once in a blue moon but is a pain when you have an issue you can't solve on your own and want to go riding.

justslow

Thanks! For some reason, mixte frames suddenly have great appeal and I'm looking for a project.

I've tried one last time to get a clear answer from the seller. All I want to know is the distance from the seat tube top to mid-crank. They've been evasive and dismissive which led me to think that frame sizes are different than diamond frame sizes and that my question was irrelevant.

I'm in no great hurry - part of the fun is the search . If/when I find a project bike I'll post again.

veganbikes

It is more than just that measurement though that can help but won't give you all the data you need and I know if I was running a co-op right now I wouldn't have time to do a full geo chart on a bike I am listing for $150. If it were a really expensive bike, maybe but even then I would still want to see you on it.

Searching can be fun but building up a bike is funner and with the Buena Vista you have a decent base to start from that is a bit more modern. I haven't seen a whole lot of higher end actual vintage mixtes aside from the Schwinn Paramount once in a blue moon and never in actual real life. Most are bike boom bikes.

tpadul 

Can't they just measure the frame and let you know how many cm it is?

Darth Lefty 

You can make an estimate by looking at the rear triangle. If it's near equilateral it's near men's medium / women's large size. Small or XS would look isosceles with the sharp point aft. Larger looks isosceles with the sharp point up (uncommon for mixtes).

Maybe not because lots of mixtes and step-throughs don't have a seat tube length that lines up with the top of the head tube. In modern parlance they have more stack.

justslow

That was exactly my question to them. Their first response was "make an appointment". Not gonna' happen as it's a 4 hour round trip for me to their shop. My next effort was asking them to measure the seat post to crank center. Their response was "send us an email", which is what I thought I was doing.

At this point, I have moved on. They're making it too hard for me to give them money.

justslow

AHA! This is part of my confusion about mixte measurements.

Here's another mixte. Would you say this is a small or medium? The ad says the frame size is 26.
https://bellingham.craigslist.org/bi...208964157.html


I'm suddenly intrigued by mixtes (is that the correct plural?).

Thanks for the reply.

OldTryGuy

We used to be Motobecane Dealers 70's-80's and it looks like a 19" (48cm) frame.

justslow

Appreciate the response.

My current bikes have 19" seatposts (a Trek 730 and a Specialized Sirrus). They fit me well. Would a 19" mixte frame also fit me?

Hard to find mixtes to try and it's a long day getting off Whidbey Island just to go look.

OldTryGuy

Would presume overall comfort would be acceptable *as is* and could always make changes to stem if reach is way off. I feel your hesitation due to long trip is justifiable, just a shame a quick measurement can not be taken. Call back and maybe someone more helpful might answer. Good luck.

mdarnton

Mixte bikes were a solution for small people, back when the only option in a road bike under 21.5" was to go to 24" wheels and I think that most of what you are going to find will be on the small side. When they were made, sizes were mostly spec'd in inches relative to the head tube vs a conventional bike, not according to seat tube height, which means a smaller person would fit the same inch size because the seat tube was lower. That first one pictured looks to be a 21.5" equivalent, based on the head tube, and the second might be 22.5". The really small ones are around 19.5". I don't remember ever seeing anything larger. They became redundant with the development of mountain bikes and hybrids that didn't have horizontal top tubes, which allowed shorter seat tubes. That's my memory from being there and shopping them at the time for my wife. At the time Pugeot and Fuji were two of the leading makers, and the candidates weren't anything special in terms of materials. It was a small miracle how they could fit so many pounds of metal into such a small package! We got her a Fuji and it was such a piece of junk that when she got a small mountain bike we just put the Fuji in the trash. I still cringe when I see one on the street.

The problem you will have as a 5'9" person is that while the handlebars may be at the height of a 54 cm road bike, and thiat might almost be useble for your height, because of the short seat post you're going to need something extra long to get your butt up where it belongs, and a conventional long-size 35 cm post may not get you there.

That's my opinion, anyway.

justslow

Excellent. That's great info for someone newly infatuated with mixtes. I knew none of this.

The second bike is a Lotus that's been in their garage forever. Any opinions of Lotus mixtes and this one in particular? Looks like a taller head tube from here.
https://bellingham.craigslist.org/bi...208964157.html

justslow

Well, the first bike shop has not answered my latest email so I've moved on. The above mentioned Lotus mixte is my current "favorite". This is gonna' be a process not an event .

thumpism 

As the rider of tall bikes (62+cm for years) considering having a mixte in the fleet for my upcoming golden years, I'm always on the lookout for older Peugeot and Gitane mixtes that were available in 23" seat tube sizes but those bikes do not have the much-desired taller head tube that many of us want for a more upright riding position. I recently found (literally, in a pile of junk on a dead end road) a modern Giant townie-type bike that meets the requirements for broad fit range and is now in the fleet as loaner and my eventual "old man bike." It's not C&V but gives me something to ride while I look for something else. Good luck with your search.


I can't believe they won't measure the frame for you. Seat tube length is seat tube length, whether on a mixte or a diamond frame so it sounds to me like the place is unprofessional or incapable, or both.

justslow

Yes, I'm surprised they wouldn't even measure the seat tube. They spent more time emailing me with their excuses than the act of measuring. Oh well, I've moved on.

I'm looking for something different, which led me to look at mixtes. I like having a Winter project but it looks like my project is looking for a project . Thanks for the reply.

BTW - I like your step-thru bike. I'm sure it's a pleasant ride.

Velo Mule

I have to agree that the modern step through frames are nice. I got one for my wife. And with the aluminum frame it is light weight. But, it doesn't have the classic look of a mixte.

That Lotus has a nice frame, however, be aware that it appears to have a positron derailleur system and a front freewheeling system. While that is not necessarily bad, if it needs service or parts, it can be more problematic than a conventional gear system. This was a short lived innovation by Shimano to allow an easier shifting system. It can shift gears while you are costing and has index shifting.

I also like that the Lotus already has fenders. That is a personal thing but, if you are using the bike for more than just sunshine rides, fenders are good. I also like the way fenders look on Mixte's.

justslow

Good eye on the shifters! Here's the spec on the Lotus America Mixte:



I like triple cranksets and thought I might look into upgrading this bike to a triple. Do you think that's feasible? How about a full drive train upgrade to get more speeds and shifters on the handlebar?

At this point, I'm just an armchair spender.

I appreciate your comments.

justslow

Good point - is a longer seatpost possible do you think?

Velo Mule

So, it sounds like you like the mixte style. At least I am thinking that. While you could change over the drivetrain on the Lotus, unless you have a parts bin full of the right parts it may not be worth it. If you really want a triple front crankset, you might have to buy it since not too many Mixtes came with them.

If you do this with the Lotus, you will need the crank and a new bottom bracket spindle. The rear wheel on that Lotus should fit a regular freewheel hub after you, our your local bike shop removes the original Positron freewheel. Then you can install a standard 5 speed or ultra 6 freewheel. The you will need at the very least a new rear derailleur and shifter. At this point you will have a conventional friction shifting drivetrain.

You could also consider keeping the Positron and the front freewheeling. Some people like. As long as the system is working you should have no problem. You live in a location that has a strong bike culture and it is possible that someone there can fix it you have problems. I think, and I am no expert, that the cables are the difficult part to get.

As for the seat post, one of the upgrades that I like making on vintage bikes is to buy and install a Kalloy or similar seat post.

Depending upon your desires, parts bin and ability to repair and replace components you must weigh out whether you keep looking or go for the Lotus. Keep in mind that there are plenty of Mixtes out there. You may come across a Peugeot with a steel crank. There were lots of Mixtes made in Japan in the '80's. And Schwinn had a Japan made LeTour Mixte that is worth considering. There are some Mixte threads threads here that you should read through. If you didn't do it already.

Also, here is a nice write up on Mixte bikes. These are more modern custom frames. Lovely Bike

mdarnton is someone that wasn't so enamored with Mixtes. Keep that in mind too. While some of us love then, they may not be the right bike for you. A '90's mountain bike is built sturdy, can take a lot more abuse than a mixte and comes with good indexed shifters. I love 90's Mountain bikes too so think about what you may like. Since I ride my Trek 800 mostly on the road or paths, I put smooth tires on it.

You may be seeing less bikes being listed this time of year as people get ready for the holidays. Be patient. And if you find the bike that you thought was the right bike for you and it turns out it is not, you can always sell it.

justslow

Thanks Velo Mule Excellent post and I learned alot about mixtes in a hurry! I have been scouring the other mixte threads.

Seems like upgrades to that Lotus come in bunches, not incrementally. Changes to one component lead to changes in more places. This might be fun or it might be exhausting. For now, I'll be patient and watch the market and assess my own needs and desires. I'm in the "free" part of a bike upgrade - the research. It's a good project for now as I can afford it and can learn. Thanks again for the reply.

Craptacular8

Not entirely sure about mixtie sizes myself. I had a family member rescue a mixtie complete bike from their local recycling. It was a Raleigh Rapide mixtie, from the early 80's. No size info on the bike. It had 27" steel wheels. Because of the pretty lugs, I thought it might be "something." It really isn't, just hi-ten steel, but I built it up anyway on a lark. It is a surprisingly peppy, springy ride. I really enjoy it, lol. Bonus, I can stuff 700 x 35 tires on it, and ride gravel too. I measured the seat tube, 20" and the top tube c-to-c is 21.5. I'd guess this would be sized as a medium, as that would be a 54cm bike by reach. At any rate, I'm 5.7 and have a tad longer stem than I might otherwise have on it to accomodate the sweep of the handlebars. Fit is pretty darn good. This is an on the cheap build of Microshift R10 drivetrain, nice Dia Comp brake levers, Tektro 559 long reach brakes, and some 105 hub wheels...I think the rims are Velocity A23s, but really can't remember. Saddle was a Velo Orange, from back when they were making Brooks knockoffs. Leather felt especially stiff, but have to say it feels quite nice.

justslow

Craptacular8 Nice bike and nice addition to this thread.

Your impressions about size are most helpful - seems like mixtes have mostly smaller frames which isn't necessarily a bad thing but worth keeping in mind while shopping the interwebz.

Yup, nice bike! Thanks for the great post. I've decided to keep looking for as long as necessary until I find one that rings my bell.