jjhabbs 

Hi All,

from my schwinn paramount that I just got today. I have more proof that it wasnt ridden.. ever.. The spindle is too short. i overhauled the BB and when I tightened the crank all the way the chainring rubs on the stay...The stay has no damage. The crank came off easily. proves it was built as a wall hanger.

Thats the good news..

Bad news is I have to find a spindle.. Im fairly knowledgeable however im not familiar with this C record bb..

Cups are thicker, bearings are smaller than usual and the distance between the races is different than any other campy spindle I have... I have a bunch.

How do i know im buying the correct one. the original bb on the paramount is a 68ss 109mm.
I am assuming that I need a 111mm. The distance between the races is slightly wider than my other 68s but narrower than a 70mm

Any idea how to get the correct spindle? other 68ss spindles (non C record)the races are closer together..

please advise!

repechage

OK, you have a Corsa Record bottom bracket, or at least that is what was presented. The cups are near carryovers from Super Record, a bottom bracket that also used 3/16" ball bearings. Alloy cups and passed in steel races.
measuring the spindle race spacing won't help much, you are living in the 3/16" ball bearing world unique to Campagnolo.
(they did this for a year in the early 60's too just a point of history)
the spindle notation 68 or 70 is for the width of the BB shell. So, there is your starting place.
Double check the frame, some frames get "faced" to odd dimensions for various reasons.
These spindles were SLIGHTLY asymmetrical, the Pista versions hardly noticeable.
Now, the hard part... locating the correct spindle will be a search... so much so that I would be thinking of looking for a Super Record ti spindle, or spindle with nuts, early took bolts.

repechage

thinking, actually a ti spindle that accepts bolts, better chance that it will be just a mm or two too long.

jjhabbs 

yes, how do I know that the spindle is 3/16 bearing compatible if they are all labled 68x???

repechage

All Campagnolo Branded ti spindles are designed for 3/16" bearings. the pressed on steel bearing races take up too much volume.

Do not buy a Teledyne spindle, 1/4" bearings.

steelbikeguy

with the disclaimer that I know barely enough to get by... I do have a Campy axle marked "68-SSb" that had me confused. The wise souls on the CR list informed me that it is a Chorus axle. I'm not sure where I got it, but I don't have a use for it. It's 111mm long. Details in the photo below (it's the lower axle, below a more familiar Campy Record).

PM me if you think you can use it. It's just taking up space in my parts box.




Steve in snowy Peoria

jjhabbs 

let me measure mine..Ill see if that driveside will be long enough.. Thanks!!

repechage

good image steelbikeguy.
Surprised the CR list C Record enforcers did not kill off that discussion right away!

machinist42

Why don't you move the DS cup out the necessary distance, probably only a half a mm or ?, with a spacer ring? Check your current chainline, it may be off that much already?
(That's old school. Did this with my Maserati MT-1. Ring cost $1.50 at my LBS.)

jjhabbs 

done that once before. sorta hinky for me..Plus, I think i need a couple MM and that will limit lock ring threads.

Thanks

JJ

repechage

Maybe... the cups are aluminum, adding a washer behind the fixed cup will alter the locking engagement on the other side.. I would want complete thread engagement there in this instance.

trainman999

Did you try flipping the spindle?

jjhabbs 

yes

machinist42

The "washer" I used is aluminum, from a Campagnolo kit. Works fine on the Campagnolo bottom bracket; haven't experienced any issues. (It was a way, back in the day. Thought I'd throw the idea out, as I hadn't seen it mentioned.)

jjhabbs 

Mine is also 28mm from race to edge..same as yours..bummer

jeirvine 

I have a NOS Italian C-record BB. It is marked Spc, and is 111 mm long. What is your current spindle marked? I would assume an English ("68") C-record would be 109 mm.

Edit: Nope - looks like English C-Record is also 111 mm.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMPAGNOLO-...IAAOSwQwdajsvP

trainman999

Do you have a 111 axle in your stash and the correct cups and bearings to go with it. Just use it. If it's only going to be a occasional rider you could just use an older record BB and cups.

repechage

I think you are missing my concern. A washer at the fixed cup is not a problem. As it shifts the spindle over the same amount, the amount of engagement of the lock-ring over the adjustable cup may be inadequate. There, I want to see full engagement especially with an aluminum cup. How this all works out is really the sum of the variables, the bottom bracket shell being the initial concern, they often get faced, some more than others, more metal removal on the drive side the bigger the potential problem.
Campagnolo in the Record bottom bracket era made spindles with dimension modifications and stamped as such. Bypassed by the Corsa Record era. C Record and Chorus are close but not fully interchangeable.

machinist42

No, I understood and understand your concern(s) completely. I rather doubt BB facing or metal removal is an issue in this instance, as the OP has suggested this bike has never been ridden, having been built out for display. If it is the "Wheaties" repaint (?), perhaps they forgot to reinstall the ring when it was reassembled; it happens.

As the OP had already dismissed the option, I only addressed the ring material question in my reply.

repechage

Some images of the bottom bracket assembled may have answered both our concerns.
would have been good to see the markings on the spindle too.

machinist42

True that! Pics be good n'at!

To paraphrase Tmar: "A picture can be worth a thousand words, but only if it is from the drive side..."

qcpmsame 

John,
Checking my parts stash after early mass this morning. I am with repechage, he guided me through a search to cure problems with my Tommasini BB shell width.

Bill

JohnDThompson 

I suspect this spindle would work with the C-Record cranks, if used with Chorus or equivalent cups.

IIRC, the Chorus cups were the same as the old Record "thin" (i.e. not rifled) cups, also used with Triomphe, Victory and Pista bottom brackets.

clubman 

OP, if the bike hasn't been ridden, perhaps the frame prep wasn't completed and the BB needs facing. Not that it will fix your crank rub but on a bike this special, it's good to start at the very beginning.

Spaghetti Legs 

I looked through your other thread and didn’t see, but it woukd be helpful to post a pic of the crank to make sure everyone is on the same page. 1st gen C Record, Victory, Triomphe double cranks use symmetric 109 mm spindles in English and Italian BB. At some point after that they went to 111. If you’re using earlier gen cranks, then you dip into the morass of asymmetry and variable lengths.