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School me on spoke nipples

Old 07-16-19, 10:07 AM
  #1  
speedy25
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School me on spoke nipples

I have wheels on a bike that was transported through Ohio's salty slushy roads and never washed off in FL when the customer arrived there. That salt dissolved the stock nipples.

Spoke diameter is 2.0 mm. I see all kinds of nipples made from 3 kinds of metals. Brass, "alloy," and steel. What exactly is the alloy? Its not in the disrtibutors description.

I think I only see 2 sizes for the threads, but once again descriptions are vague. I also know that spokes are typically picked by gauge.

I'm hoping you guys can straighten me out so I can get the right ones the first time.

TIA,

-SP
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Old 07-16-19, 10:09 AM
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"Alloy" is generations-old shorthand for "aluminum alloy."
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Old 07-16-19, 10:13 AM
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Brass and steel are obvious. "Alloy" means aluminum alloy and it was probably the material the ruined nipples were made of since salt corrodes aluminum badly.

Brass nipples are most commonly used and are strong and durable. Steel nipples are almost never used on decent wheels. Alluminum nipples are used to save a small amount of weight but are weaker than brass and more prone to corrosion as you have discovered. Buy brass.

A 2.0 mm spoke is also known as 14 gauge so buy matching nipples.
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Old 07-16-19, 10:17 AM
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Some newer alloy is 7000 series and strong. But for Ohio, Florida...... many like brass
I can get away with alloy in So. CA.
2.0 spoke would have thread size of 2.3 I believe...... threads are rolled and larger diameter.
All you need to ask for is 2.0 spokes..... 2.0 nipples.......etc.
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Old 07-16-19, 10:28 AM
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2.0mm will be the far most common size.
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Old 07-16-19, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
"Alloy" is generations-old shorthand for "aluminum alloy."
One of my pet peeves but I assume that you're right. If they were iron alloy they would probably call them steel.
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Old 07-16-19, 10:30 AM
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Aluminum nipples are fine and nice if you're building lightweight wheels that won't see corrosive wet service.
Brass will last much longer if you ride in the rain or slop.

As to your case, if the nipples are that far gone, there's a good chance your spoke threads and maybe the rims are also compromised... at least inspect the threads after you take off a few nipples, and inspect the grommets in the rim spoke holes before you decide to rebuild; might make sense to get new wheels.
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Old 07-16-19, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
One of my pet peeves but I assume that you're right. If they were iron alloy they would probably call them steel.
Yeah but if you call them "aluminum alloy" someone else is probably going to be peeved that you didn't spell it "aluminium" or vice versa, and you're going to get groused at by someone sooner or later. So there's no winning on this one, either way
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Old 07-17-19, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel
Some newer alloy is 7000 series and strong. But for Ohio, Florida...... many like brass
I can get away with alloy in So. CA.
2.0 spoke would have thread size of 2.3 I believe...... threads are rolled and larger diameter.
All you need to ask for is 2.0 spokes..... 2.0 nipples.......etc.
You can get away with alloy in Colorado provided you have the foresight to lubricate spoke threads and sockets with zinc anti-seize or at least grease and don't use them to extend spokes which are too short.

Don't address galvanic corrosion and you can have seized nipples even in the San Francisco Bay Area.
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Old 07-17-19, 12:39 PM
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If the nipples are all corroded to hell, it's a safe bet that the hubs and/or rims have problems, too. Inspect carefully before replacing the nipples.
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Old 07-17-19, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
One of my pet peeves but I assume that you're right. If they were iron alloy they would probably call them steel.
Realistically, almost all metals used are "alloys". Even iron in all but the purest of forms is an alloy. The process of reducing iron oxide (ore which is really just rust) to "iron" leaves behind a small amount of carbon. That's what makes the difference between "iron" and "steel". But every other metal we commonly use is an alloy.

But the problem here is that we don't have a common name an aluminum alloy like we do for iron and carbon mixtures other then to call it "alloy". It's not really proper to call it "aluminum" either. It's a mixture of elements. It's just a short hand and shouldn't really bother you.

If you really want to be bothered check out the meaning of the word "salt". Hint: it's not just sodium ions and chlorine ions that form "salt".

Or the difference between a "balance" and a "scale". One measures mass and can be used anywhere in the Universe. The other measures weight and is only valid on the surface of Earth.

Or the difference between weight and mass.
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Old 07-17-19, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
If you really want to be bothered check out the meaning of the word "salt". Hint: it's not just sodium ions and chlorine ions that form "salt".
Depends on the conversation. In a culinary context, "salt" generally means an edible substance consisting almost entirely of sodium chloride. In a chemistry context, salts are a much broader category.

A similar situation exists for, say, "ice." In most circumstances it refers to frozen water, but if an astronomer tells you about "ices" on the surface of some distant moon, you should check what it's actually composed of before you try to make snow cones out of the stuff.
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Old 07-17-19, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
Depends on the conversation. In a culinary context, "salt" generally means an edible substance consisting almost entirely of sodium chloride. In a chemistry context, salts are a much broader category.

A similar situation exists for, say, "ice." In most circumstances it refers to frozen water, but if an astronomer tells you about "ices" on the surface of some distant moon, you should check what it's actually composed of before you try to make snow cones out of the stuff.
I believe "concrete" actually refers to any substance that has aggregates held together by some kind of binder. What we commonly think of as concrete is actually portland cement mixed with sand, gravel, etc. Asphalt (aka tar macadam) is another kind of concrete. Or so I've read anyway.

Ketchup is actually a generic style of sauce preparation and can be made with lots of stuff besides tomatoes (strawberries, bananas, even oysters). Same for salsa, relish, etc.
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Old 07-17-19, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by speedy25
I have wheels on a bike that was transported through Ohio's salty slushy roads and never washed off in FL when the customer arrived there. That salt dissolved the stock nipples.

Spoke diameter is 2.0 mm. I see all kinds of nipples made from 3 kinds of metals. Brass, "alloy," and steel. What exactly is the alloy? Its not in the disrtibutors description.

I think I only see 2 sizes for the threads, but once again descriptions are vague. I also know that spokes are typically picked by gauge.

I'm hoping you guys can straighten me out so I can get the right ones the first time.

TIA,

-SP
Generally speaking, unless you are willing to donate the labour and material needed to replace all of the nipples of that wheel, it may well be more cost effective to buy a new replacement wheel
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Old 07-17-19, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
. Buy brass.

.
This ^
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Old 07-20-19, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by speedy25
I have wheels on a bike that was transported through Ohio's salty slushy roads and never washed off in FL when the customer arrived there. That salt dissolved the stock nipples.

Spoke diameter is 2.0 mm. I see all kinds of nipples made from 3 kinds of metals. Brass, "alloy," and steel. What exactly is the alloy? Its not in the disrtibutors description.

I think I only see 2 sizes for the threads, but once again descriptions are vague. I also know that spokes are typically picked by gauge.

I'm hoping you guys can straighten me out so I can get the right ones the first time.

TIA,

-SP
Definition:

A metal that is made by mixing two or more metals, or a metal and anothersubstance:

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.
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Old 07-20-19, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mynewnchome
Definition:

A metal that is made by mixing two or more metals, or a metal and anothersubstance:
A better definition would be that an alloy is a solid, ****geneous mixture of metals. It’s a solid solution.

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.
Just a note on brass vs aluminum: Both are susceptible to corrosion by the salts (sodium and magnesium) used for ice melting. Aluminum is more reactive but both will corrode.
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Old 07-21-19, 07:37 AM
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Steel nipples offer no advantage.

Use aluminum nipples only if your weight-weenie tendencies are enough to outweigh the inevitable problems.

Brass has no disadvantage beyond being slightly heavier than aluminum.
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Old 07-21-19, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mynewnchome
Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.
The brass for nipples is an alloy of copper & zinc? Brass generically is thousands of alloys of copper + zinc + /tin/lead/iron/alumin(i)um . When we finally got wise to lead states limited the lead content of brass for plumbing or other uses that end up in our stomachs.

Brass disinfects itself through the oligodynamic effect: bacteria and fungus that land on it die eventually (about an hour for untarnished brass, as long as 7 for tarnished brass). Shower heads harbor bacteria, as a microbiologist found when he sent all his students home for Christmas break with kits to collect what was on them there. (https://scienceblog.com/25118/daily-...boulder-study/ ) I switched to a raw brass shower head. Copper's even better (silver better yet); some organizations provide copper water vessels to people who live in poor areas, fetch their drinking water and store it at home. Copper's too soft for plumbing fixtures, though I did see a copper spigot in the kitchen at Monet's home in Giverny - worth a trip if you're in Paris. There's a commuter train to Vernon; it's a mile walk to Giverny.

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Old 07-21-19, 02:12 PM
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Bring one of the spokes to the shop and try on the nipples. Not all threads are alike. You didn't say how old this bike is but the old French and Japanese spokes used different threading.

Ben
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Old 07-21-19, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Bring one of the spokes to the shop and try on the nipples. Not all threads are alike. You didn't say how old this bike is but the old French and Japanese spokes used different threading.
Modern spoke threads have pretty much standardized at 56tpi, but still must match the spoke gauge. Older spokes may use different thread.


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Old 07-22-19, 02:45 PM
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Generations, you had to say it.

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
"Alloy" is generations-old shorthand for "aluminum alloy."
Jeezus, I'm squinting at the screen cause I just ran in from the thunder shower, and my reading glasses are all steamed up... for this? I'm gonna go back out and hold my Vitus 979 forks over my head

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Old 07-23-19, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
A better definition would be that an alloy is a solid, ****geneous mixture of metals. It’s a solid solution.
Please keep the disrespectful remarks about the LGBT community out of your responses!
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Old 07-23-19, 11:02 AM
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Its hilarious how a thread can get so many odd replies as well as correct info. I am appreciative of all who participated.

Take it to the shop?? I AM THE SHOP!!

There are so many strange alloys out there, with the scariest being low quality zinc mixes. They should just say ALUMINUM, instead of alloy. I just had to make sure what I suspected was correct.

The salt appears to have only attacked the nipples. I can unscrew whats left by hand easily.

Time to order parts and get to work on this job too.

-SP
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