What We All Knew...
#51
It's MY mountain
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At issue here is the F. That F is the sum of several forces:
1. Wind resistance
2. Rolling resistance
3. Drive train resistance
4. Force required to change potential energy (elevation difference)
Unless you're climbing, your weight has next to no effect on 1, 2, or 3.
And if you are climbing, you'd have to specify some specific conditions to come up with a "mph/lb" number the way Sam cited, and that would certainly be non-linear over any meaningful range.
#52
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At issue here is the F. That F is the sum of several forces:
1. Wind resistance
2. Rolling resistance
3. Drive train resistance
4. Force required to change potential energy (elevation difference)
Unless you're climbing, your weight has next to no effect on 1, 2, or 3.
And if you are climbing, you'd have to specify some specific conditions to come up with a "mph/lb" number the way Sam cited, and that would certainly be non-linear over any meaningful range.
1. Wind resistance
2. Rolling resistance
3. Drive train resistance
4. Force required to change potential energy (elevation difference)
Unless you're climbing, your weight has next to no effect on 1, 2, or 3.
And if you are climbing, you'd have to specify some specific conditions to come up with a "mph/lb" number the way Sam cited, and that would certainly be non-linear over any meaningful range.
#53
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The real reason people get faster on flat ground when they lose weight is because they are biologically more efficient - less blubber to sustain with their metabolism and their power output goes up. OK, I don't have science to prove that statement, just anecdote.
And the reason they get faster climbing hills when they lose weight is because it takes less power to overcome gravity.
#54
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Weight certainly affects your acceleration... how quickly you can change speed at a constant power. When you're at constant speed a=0, so (mav)1 = (mav)2 is a trivial relationship.
The real reason people get faster on flat ground when they lose weight is because they are biologically more efficient - less blubber to sustain with their metabolism and their power output goes up. OK, I don't have science to prove that statement, just anecdote.
And the reason they get faster climbing hills when they lose weight is because it takes less power to overcome gravity.
The real reason people get faster on flat ground when they lose weight is because they are biologically more efficient - less blubber to sustain with their metabolism and their power output goes up. OK, I don't have science to prove that statement, just anecdote.
And the reason they get faster climbing hills when they lose weight is because it takes less power to overcome gravity.
If a=0, then where are my 88 watts going? p=mav, if a=0, p=0.
#55
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Top end speed of a semi is the same, whether it's loaded or not. But it takes a longer time for the loaded truck to get up to that speed, and takes longer to stop.
#56
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I think I got it. Thanks.
#57
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#58
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#59
~>~
Getting the incremental improvements that matter most over the last 45 years for road racing machines seems back to front in this thread.
By that I mean:
1) A good quality steel race frame from the '70's fitted out with all modern components.
B) A modern CF race frame fitted out (not so easy to do) with a 70's period NR group w/ DT friction controls, non-aero brake levers, 52/42 5 cog 14-21 gearing, Toeclips/straps, 36H AL tubular wheels, Brooks Pro Saddle and a mechanical stopwatch & holder.
I'd race version 1 vs B myself.
Oddly enough there is an entire thread in C&V "Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos" with 1,903,083 posts indicating that this is a well trodden path.
Not so oddly for B there is Nada.
-Bandera
By that I mean:
1) A good quality steel race frame from the '70's fitted out with all modern components.
B) A modern CF race frame fitted out (not so easy to do) with a 70's period NR group w/ DT friction controls, non-aero brake levers, 52/42 5 cog 14-21 gearing, Toeclips/straps, 36H AL tubular wheels, Brooks Pro Saddle and a mechanical stopwatch & holder.
I'd race version 1 vs B myself.
Oddly enough there is an entire thread in C&V "Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos" with 1,903,083 posts indicating that this is a well trodden path.
Not so oddly for B there is Nada.
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 06-09-19 at 05:18 AM.
#60
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#61
Le savonnier
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I probably have what would be considered an unreasonable hatred of Ultegra, especially the brifters. I base this on:
1) I think it's butt-ugly.
2) Every bike I've ever purchased with Ultegra on it has been dysfunctional; again, especially the brifters.
1) I think it's butt-ugly.
2) Every bike I've ever purchased with Ultegra on it has been dysfunctional; again, especially the brifters.
#62
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#63
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#64
Senior Member
How much of a boost can the psychological effect of riding a brand new modern race bike bring to the table? Can that be measured? I mean, it could make some people feel better, push harder, train harder and play harder. How many people here purchased super expensive exotic Italian steel bike because so and so was super fast and won a race on it back in the day? It seems odd that we make fun of the young crowd now for buying bikes that today`s idols of the sport ride? Whatever gets them on a bike and riding is a great bike. I have given up on making fun of carbon bikes. They might not look as pretty as my steel to me, but my Cannondale sure is fun to ride.
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My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
Last edited by Steve Whitlatch; 06-07-19 at 09:58 PM.
#65
Senior Member
You know what else I find to be odd? The push to bigger tires on the old steel bikes? So many people here do not ride the old steel racing bikes anymore because they will not fit 32`s or bigger? But boy the old steel racers are superior or just as good as today`s bikes? The other odd thing is that I have heard over and over how some steel racing bikes are superior to other steel bikes because they are two to three pounds lighter.? But carbon bikes that are five to six pounds lighter than steel bikes have no advantage? We should start a C&V contradictions thread?
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My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
#66
It's MY mountain
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#67
52psi
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This image will never leave me.
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A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
#68
Senior Member
The demographic around here seems to be 60+. How fast are we going that an aero frame is going to make any difference? When JRA means 40kph and sprints are always above 60kph fair enough to presume all present are on carbon. If over 60 and doing those speeds training and sleeping is going to take so many hours nothing will be left over for fooling with C&V bikes.
I ride old bikes because I like them. Can remember JRA at 40kph when steel was the only choice and those memories will last. Memories won't make me fast and neither will carbon.
And all my bikes will fit 32mm tires. Because they are old bikes. If your concept of an old bike is something 10 or 20 years old you don't get to play with wide tires. Which are just normal tires.
I ride old bikes because I like them. Can remember JRA at 40kph when steel was the only choice and those memories will last. Memories won't make me fast and neither will carbon.
And all my bikes will fit 32mm tires. Because they are old bikes. If your concept of an old bike is something 10 or 20 years old you don't get to play with wide tires. Which are just normal tires.
#69
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Getting the incremental improvements that matter most over the last 45 years for road racing machines seems back to front in this thread.
By that I mean:
1) A good quality steel race frame from the '70's fitted out with all modern components.
B) A modern CF race frame fitted out (not so easy to do) with a 70's period NR group w/ DT friction controls, non-aero brake levers, 52/42 5 cog 14-21 gearing, Toeclips/straps, 36H AL tubular wheels, Brooks Pro Saddle and a mechanical stopwatch & holder.
I'd race version 1 vs B myself.
Oddly enough there is an entire thread in C&V "Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos" with 1,903,083 posts indicating that this is a well trodden path.
Not so oddly for B there is Nada.
By that I mean:
1) A good quality steel race frame from the '70's fitted out with all modern components.
B) A modern CF race frame fitted out (not so easy to do) with a 70's period NR group w/ DT friction controls, non-aero brake levers, 52/42 5 cog 14-21 gearing, Toeclips/straps, 36H AL tubular wheels, Brooks Pro Saddle and a mechanical stopwatch & holder.
I'd race version 1 vs B myself.
Oddly enough there is an entire thread in C&V "Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos" with 1,903,083 posts indicating that this is a well trodden path.
Not so oddly for B there is Nada.
It's also sort of strange to me (just my opinion), that so many people are fine with cookie-cutter bikes and parts. I mean, don't you want your bike to be your bike?
Sounds like the makings of a good GCN video: "What is faster? New frame with old parts, or old frame with new parts?" As stated, though, it would probably be a PITA to setup a new frame with vintage stuff.
#70
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Oddly enough USAC racing is age cadre and experience based in field selection.
If/when I emerge from retirement to pin on a number it will be my peers not their grandchildren or rank newbies that I'll line up with.
As ever it will be the fit, fast and race smart who populate the steps of the podium using the equipment that they prefer within UCI guidelines.
If one feels up for giving a demonstration of their C&V period machine and kit please make sure that your tires are firmly glued and have at it.
-Bandera
If/when I emerge from retirement to pin on a number it will be my peers not their grandchildren or rank newbies that I'll line up with.
As ever it will be the fit, fast and race smart who populate the steps of the podium using the equipment that they prefer within UCI guidelines.
If one feels up for giving a demonstration of their C&V period machine and kit please make sure that your tires are firmly glued and have at it.
-Bandera
#72
~>~