EBikeFL 

Bikes in the UK, if that's where you're located, are higher priced than here in the States. The 2012 Kona Lanai, 2012 Kona Fire Mountain, and the 2012 Kona Minute will all work as strong frames for your Papamotors kit. The Kona Fire Mountain has hydraulic brakes. The Kona Minute has mud guards and a large strong rear rack. I'm working on fitting hydraulic brakes on my 2012 Lanai and don't see any problems doing so. You can get spacers and brake disks from https://www.ebike.ca to make things fit properly. I had my local bike shop shorten the bridge on the rear brake but ebay has a vendor that sells a shorter bridge (F160/R140) so again you shouldn't have any problems using hydraulic brakes. Yes, Papamotors does not supply you any hydraulic brakes. If you select their rear wheel kit they'll send you a low profile brake caliper. I, however, used the Kona stock brake caliper after the modification was done to the stock bridge. I have stiffened my front suspension as much as possible. It would be better to have no shocks front or rear. The Kona Minute fits this criteria.

You do not have to use the PAS. If you don't you'll have to use the thumb throttle or twist throttle for increasing and decreasing power. You don't need to use Papamotors brakes. If you have the Kona rear bridge modified or purchase the F160/R140 bridge your stock brakes will work. If you use the twist throttle you'll have to use the Papamotors brake handles which send a signal to the controller to stop the motor. If you purchase any of the three Kona bicycles I mentioned you'll have to use the thumb throttle because the brake and derailleur are in combo on the handlebar.

I haven't changed gears on my Kona since I installed the Papamotors kit. I purchased the 6-speed freewheel from www.ebike.ca and left the gear selector on the tallest/hardest setting (smallest rear cog + biggest front cog). Again, I have the PAS installed and only use the thumb throttle to get me moving from a standstill.

I hope I've answered all your questions.

Stay tuned...more to come.

spirit733t

hello again and thanks for your info, ok so can you please tell me what you think of the VOODOO BOKER , specifically 2009 edition.. I have read that they have great frames and come with the 7005 aluminium, same as what you have on your kona..

I am attaching a picture of the rear fork.. can you tell me if you think this is ok for the rear 1000 watt motor to hold?




thanks for your help in this,

EBikeFL 

The frame looks strong enough; however, the metal piece held on by two allen bolts on each side of the rear fork may be a problem. Some questions you'll need to find answers for are:

1) Will the lock nut for the hub motor axle fit? It may be a tight squeeze.
2) The Papamotors kit uses a rear brake bracket to move the rear caliper out away from the frame. This bracket takes a good 1/2 inch of the hub motor axle. Will you be able to fit the bracket, the rear brake disk and any spacers all between the rear fork with that metal piece which holds the axle to the frame?
3) Will rear torque arms fit if you need to install them? I've got mine on the outside of the rear fork.

I've included some pictures of my bike and what components are on the hub axle:



It looks like a rear bike rack will fit from your picture if you want to use it to hold the battery.

Go for it. Worse case is you have to sell the Voodoo Bokor and get a bike that will work with the Papamotors kit.

Check through the install instructions on the Papamotors website and make sure all their required distances are met with the Bokor as well.

spirit733t

hi there, thanks for your input again, well some more news, the voodoo boker deal didn' t work out, and the guy selling it, sold it to someone else..
so I have been looking at other bikes, and have come up with the following two..

Trek 6000
https://www.www2.evanscycles.com/prod...30270#features


and also the SPECIALIZED road COMP 2012
https://www.evanscycles.com/products/...-bike-ec030687


so can you please have a look at the specs and the rear forks, and let me know if you think they can accept the 1000 watt papamotor motor.

I know that you have made some recommendations, which I def will think about too, but it be great to get your feedback and anyone elses on the trek and specialized...

thanks

EBikeFL 

Spirit733t, both the Trek 6000 and the Specialized road comp 2012 will work with the Papamotors rear 48v 1000w kit. You should also plan on switching the tires, the rims, and perhaps getting a more comfortable seat. You should be able to sell back the tires, rims, etc. to the bike store that puts the bicycle together. They will buy the parts back if they have not been used at all. Plan on switching to street tires, a thorn resistant inner tube, and using Mr. Tuffy tire liners for a nearly bulletproof setup. If you have these components already with you; you can have the bike store install them instead of the stock components.

spirit733t

ok thanks, then on that note I think I will go ahead and buy the trek, as it seems to have better components.

the bike has hydraulic brakes, papamotor said thats a issue, what do you think ?

my plan/ idea is not to use their supplied brake handles and brake wiring system, just the motor , throttle, controller and battery and keep using the treks supplied hydraulic discs brakes..

when you mentioned that I should change the rims do you mean that I should change the wheels?

thanks

spirit733t

and by the way how is your bike going, how is the motor running along? any issues?

out of 10 how would you rate the kit, in terms of build quality, durability, battery usage, speed, stealth?

here in England they have a legal limit of only 15mph, so stealth is important..

thanks again

EBikeFL 

Hydraulic brakes shouldn't be a problem as long as you can use the Papamotors rear brake bracket to hold the caliper. Papamotors has shipped me free of charge an extra bracket for me to modify for my hydraulic brake conversion. I promised to send them pictures of the modifications needed to go to hydraulic brakes. You'll be glad once you get the kit up and running that your using hydraulic brakes.

Yes, the components you mentioned are the best part of their kits. Anything extra such as the free wheel you can purchase from www.ebike.ca including the Cycle Analyst.

I'm tending towards having larger width rims and larger width tires as suggested by Greg Davey (www.fastelectricbike.com); however, I don't think I can squeeze a full 2.5 inch tire such as the Maxxis Hookworms between the rear fork. The Schwalbe Big Apple 26 x 2.35 tires look very tempting along with double walled 42 mm rims from https://www.unicycle.com/unicycle-har...wheel_size=347. This is the setup I will most likely end up with in the very near future along with thick spokes (12g) front and back. I just installed the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme on the rear rim and will try it out tomorrow morning.

I would suggest going straight to the 42 mm double walled rims and 2.35 or 2.5 tires. Ask Papamotors if they could install their rear hub on a 42 mm double walled rim. If not, you could save on the cost of their rim and have them just send the hub motor and spokes. You could then put the hub, rim, spokes, etc. together yourself or get your local bicycle store to do it and also true the combo. It may mean more work up front for you but you'll be well off and unlike me won't have to try different tire combinations.

Remember, you won't need the Trek rear stock rim, free wheel, tire, etc. if you get the Papamotors rear wheel kit. Sell all of these components back to the bike store you purchase the Trek from. In fact, make sure you get the local bike store to agree on purchasing all your stock components before you make your Trek purchase. They'll be more willing to work with you if it means the sale depends on this buy back. All the stock components are new anyway and your local bicycle store (LBS) shouldn't have any problems finding new homes for the parts. You may have to sell the stock parts at a slight loss so the LBS can make a profit on them.

Oh, once you go to the 42 mm rim width; remember, your tire options will now be limited to the larger tire widths.

EBikeFL 

The hub motor has been flawless (knock on wood). I had a situation a few weeks ago when the motor came to a stop while I was riding and I thought the worst had happened. It turned out one of the motor wires going to the controller had come loose. I quickly double checked all the wiring connections and was back on my commute.

There is some rust starting to form on the rear brake bracket. I should have put more than one coat of Rustoleum on it. I noticed the stock Kona chain in one or two small places starting to rust. I'm going to have to be more liberal in my WD-40 usage or purchase some chain lube.

I would rate the Papamotors 48v 1000w rear wheel kit as an 8 out of 10. The free wheel, and some of their small components could be better quality but I don't think you could get their kit for the price they now sell it for with such upgrades. Their customer service is fantastic! They always respond to my emails within 24 hrs. Any of the components that failed me they have paid for the replacements I purchased as well as the shipping costs. Their kits will only get better I believe as they receive more customer feedback.

If you want stealth then you'll have to go with my cargo cache setup I've documented in this thread.

Of course, people will give you crazy looking faces when they see you fly by them. You can tell they're trying to figure out how you're going so fast without any exhaust fumes coming from the rear of the bicycle or any electrical components in plain view. I've been thinking about installing this just to give people something to look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCvGGuN8a9k

That was a joke. Please don't install it on your e-bike.

Remember to keep us posted on your build.

spirit733t

hello,

ok just wanted your opinion on the front hub 1000 watt motor; for the trek 6000 bike, heres an image of the fork:



SR Suntour XCR RL Suspension Fork
https://markscyclerepairs.com/shop/in...d&productId=32

please tell me if you think this is strong enough? and also what is your opinion on front direct motors? do you think the papamotors front system is safe enough?

I will try and change the front brakes to v-brakes if I go this route.. or can you use hydraulic disc brakes in the front too..

the reason I ask is that if use the front motor, I can keep the 10 spoke free wheel on the rear? and also on this bike, you can lock the front suspension and so make it into a total hard front-end tail bike..

and just to confirm with you, with the papamotor kit, I dont have to use their brake levers or the PAS..

thanks again..

dhoward

Sorry for not responding earlier. Was on a Boy Scout backpacking trip.

The PAS magnet is in place, but has been disconnected because it only workes when pedaling backwards. Must have installed something backwards. The thumb throttle gets painfull holding down the lever, so I use a twist throttle instead. It takes almost no effort.

EBikeFL 

The fork looks strong enough from the picture but you may want to ask dhoward about the 1000w setup on the front wheel. I haven't rode on a front drive e-bike so I wouldn't know exactly how much of difference there is. Believe me, you won't be able to keep up with the 1000w motor even if your pedaling. Having the stock free wheel does nothing for you. I think the front wheel setup looks more obvious that your bicycle is an e-bike. There's also more weight on the rear wheel with the rear wheel setup so you get a bit more traction. The only positive thing regarding the front wheel setup would be the weight distribution between the hub motor on the front and the battery closer to the rear wheel. I only feel the difference in weight when I'm at very low speeds.

Dhoward, any comments regarding the front wheel setup?

Anyone on the forum with experience having a 1000w setup on the front wheel?

Don't know about having hydraulic brakes on the front. It should be like the rear minus the bracket maybe. You may want to take a look at the Papamotors online installation instructions and see what the front wheel setup looks like.

The PAS is just another throttle but it senses if you're pedaling or not. If you use the thumb throttle you don't need the Papamotors brake levers but if you use the twist throttle you'll need to use the e-brake levers. The PAS will work with either setup. I highly recommend it and if you have a combination brake/derailleur setup I don't think you'll have a choice but to use the thumb throttle. Dhoward should be able to confirm this.

You may be looking for more braking power if you use v-brakes with the 1000w setup.

Dhoward, any insight on whether you think you have enough front braking power? Thanks.

EBikeFL 

Good to have you back. Spirit733t has some questions I directed your way regarding the front wheel setup.

Yep, you have the PAS wheel on backwards. You don't know what your missing not using the PAS. I love that component. It makes me feel I'm still on a bicycle and not solely using the battery. Plus, it really confuses the onlookers and motorists.

EBikeFL 

I just finished a 30+ mile commute using the fairing I installed and the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme rear tire. Both components are an improvement. I had the rear tire at 50 psi and after the first 15 miles I realized I needed to have the air pressure a bit higher. I increased it to 53 psi for the return trip home but I think 55-60 may be ideal. I still think the larger width tires would give better handling so I'll be ordering the unicycle double wall rims and larger tires soon. I'm going to try and see if I can squeeze the Maxxis Hookworms in.

What I did want to mention was how effective the fairing is. It's absolutely fantastic! I was able to increase my max speed by 1-2 mph and I used 1.3 Ah less of energy on the first 15 mile leg of my commute. Incredible!

There's just one more adjustment I'd like to make to the fairing and then I'll let you all in on the adjustments and who to purchase it from if you haven't guessed already.

Stay tuned...more to come.

spirit733t

hi again,

sounds like your having lots of fun.. so I have a few more questions?

Im having a hard finding a good front fork/ suspension fork that can take v brakes.. that is really strong, any recommendations at all?

Papamotor say you cant have disc brakes on front wheel, so thats a bummer.

I have found a steel fork with no suspension, but i really wanted front suspension.. I know that you recommend that I dont use front suspension.. can I ask what is the reason behind this?

otherwise it may have to be a rear motor after all.. only reason why I did nt want to go with the rear motor was because I did nt want to mess around with the gearing system..

the trek 6000 has 10 wheel freewheel, so if I was to have the papa motor rear system, im guessing that I would have to do something with the rear derailler so that it does not use 10 gears.. ( is that right)

thanks again

EBikeFL 

Any upgrades in your front fork will run anywhere from $300 and up in addition to the cost of your bicycle. The local bicycle store from which you purchase your bicycle will be able to recommend a good front fork. Again, it won't be cheap.

Send Dhoward a PM regarding his setup. He has the Papamotors kit on the front wheel. In my experience having a front suspension does not give me the proper feedback on the road even after changing the settings on the front fork. When I brake at the speeds the 1000w kit attains, the front fork wants to dip down a huge amount. This probably wouldn't be an issue with a more expensive fork.

If you go with the larger width tires and rims, the extra rubber should provide plenty of suspension riding on the street.

I have not made any adjustments to my gearing system since I installed the rear kit. You shouldn't be intimidated by the gearing. It's very easy to change the free wheel. I looked up the instructions on YouTube and did it myself. Once the free wheel is installed, set the front and rear derailleur to allow a smooth, straight motion for the chain. You will also have to write down the wire coloring of the hall sensors coming from the hub motor (the white male plug) and which slots the wires occupy since you'll have to remove that connection to remove/install the free wheel. That's it.

Yes, you would have to change the rear free wheel to 6 or 7 gears, what ever you can fit with the rear kit components from Papamotors. I picked up a Shimano 6 speed free wheel from www.ebike.ca which is working great. They also have 7 and 8 gear free wheels. The chain is only along for the ride, it makes no real contribution to you going forward. You could still operate the bicycle without the chain. Of course, everyone would know for sure you have an e-bike at that point.

dhoward

As far as fork strength goes, the torque arms and C washers provided with the kit, distribute the torque so that most any fork with the right width should be adequate. Check out the "Manual" tab on the Papa Motors website for details. It also addresses various brake installations.

I am using standard brakes, that are a bit light for the higher speeds. Constantly adjusting them up. It would be a good idea to beef up the brakes. Especially the front.

I got the front hub motor to balance out the weight and to avoid issues with gears. It spins out easily if you don't have much weight on the front wheel when starting out, or when in dirt or loose gravel. If you plan to do much off-road riding, then you would want to use a rear hub. For regular hard surface riding, just go easy on the throttle if you don't have full weight on the front wheel.

About thumb drives - If that is all you plan to use, then your thumb will be very tired after about 10 minutes of riding. I prefer the twist throttle. Easier on the hands.

With the front suspension, the front does dip down when stopping, as most of your weight is there. It doesn't affect stopping ability though.

spirit733t

thanks guys, appreciate all your help and the heads up.. I have finally decided on the bike Im gonna get, its gonna be a

SARACEN Kili Cro-Mo 2 Mens Mountain Bike.. its a steel frame, so should def be strong enough.

as for the papamotor kit, Im gonna go for the rear hub..1000 watt drive..

but it will take me at least 2 months to get everything, the bike and papamotor kit.. but im really looking forward to this..

At the moment I gotta take a bus to work, at around 6 miles each way, and that costs me nearly£20.00 per week.... so yes the kit is expensive but in the long run I should save loads of money.

having a car is very expensive, what with high cost of fuel, insurance and servicing.. so this should be a winner...

thanks again

EBikeFL 

Congratulations, spirit733t.

Don't forget to purchase a strong U-lock such as https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ms_ohs_product to keep your investment safe. This is the lock I have.

Here's a short video of bicycle thieves in England: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Adug...feature=relmfu

Keep us posted on your build.

spirit733t

thanks for all your help, will need lots of help when I finally buy the kit, please keep the thread updated with your feedback with your experience so far of the kit. it be great to have a continuous log of success / issues.. this will help myself and other potential buyers of the kit.

thanks again

powell

It is universal agreed on ebike forums that you do NOT use aluminium fork for front hubmotor , torque arm no matter.
I would consider crazy to put 1000W on alu fork.

EBikeFL 

You're right...if we all contribute to what has and hasn't worked we should be able to save each other a lot of money and frustration. I just received word from Papamotors that their 48v 1000w hub motor rim can use tires from 1.75 to 2.15 inches. I would like to go to the 2.5 inch Maxxis Hookworms which I have already purchased. I'm waiting on additional rim measurements from Papamotors before selecting a larger width rim.

The Schwalbe Marathon Supreme rear tire is holding up great; however, I think the bicycle feels more stable with a psi closer to 55 not 60 with this tire. I also purchased additional Pitlocks in the 23mm size to secure and deter any possible theft of the front fairing. I'll be installing them sometime this weekend and will have pictures up soon.

Stay tuned...more to come.

EBikeFL 

You're right, Powell. I think the lure of an easy installation is the main reason people may choose to use the front wheel setup. I know I had those thoughts when I was trying to determine front or rear wheel setup.

spirit733t

hi again, maybe you could make a step by step easy to understand manual with pictures.. ( for newbies.. like me) on the exact process of building a rear motor drive, specifically tailored towards the papamotor kit..

thanks again

EBikeFL 

Not a bad idea, Spirit733t. I'm working now on building my own 26" rims with Maxxis Hookworms which I hope will fit. The rims should be here by the end of next week. It has been a challenge working with various vendors to try and get a wide, strong wheel setup. Those who are interested in doing the same upgrade would certainly benefit.

How long before you receive your Papamotor kit? The Ping battery?

Anyone else out there interested in seeing a installation manual specifically tailored towards the Papamotor kit? Speak up now or forever hold your peace.