nashvillebill

Last couple of lab tests showed I was low on Vitamin D. At first I thought "yeah, whatever, I take a multivitamin every day". I'm not a believer in taking megavitamins.

But after reading some legitimate Web articles, particularly the Mayo Clinic report, I figured it might not hurt. At 56 years old, my muscles do feel weak, tired and sore, perhaps that was a symptom of the D deficiency (surely it acan't be from getting older!) So today I bought a bottle of the Wally-world "Spring Valley" brand D3 in the 5000IU strength (that's the strength the doc said to take daily). The reviews on the Walmart site were favorable. These look like liquid gel-caps.

Anybody had any success with this brand, or taking D3 supplements in general? How long before my blood levels of D3 will start to increase--how long before I might start to feel any positive results?

Thanks!

RiPHRaPH

Vitamin D deficiency has become very fashionable. It doesn't take a smart clinician as it is simply included in your routine CBC that you would take at the doctors office. Vitamin D is a vitamin that your body would naturally produce as you produced melanin upon sun exposure. Being in Phoenix that might not be the source of your moderate deficiency.

I also did a course of Vitamin D for a moderate deficiency. I'm in the more northern climes and might not really see the sun for the majority of the year plus we are always taught to slather on sunscreen to prevent burning, so exposure is in bits and pieces.

At 56 I'm not crazy about you taking 5,000 International Units (IU) each and every day. Again, it is fat soluble and 5,000 IU might be a bit much to your 56 year old liver. I did my supplement as 5,000IU every other day. When I was done with that bottle I went with a 2,000IU dose that I took once daily then did a 1,000 IU bottle as my 3rd. Each bottle was 100 capsules, so that was nearly a year of vitamin D supplementation.

My levels returned to normal after this although I'm sure they returned sooner than the nearly a year of supplementation. After that I get a small amount in my multi. Vitamin D levels have also dropped in the general population because the very foods that are rich in Vitamin D --> tuna, salmon, dairy, orange juice, cereals, cheese, egg yolk we have been told to eat in moderation... and of course the moderate exposure to the sun.

Vitamin D is said to regulate mood, and although I'd like to think I am fairly well balanced, we can always use some help.

Spring Valley brand is a very highly rated vitamin as far as dissolution and absorption goes.

I do take issue with taking 5,000IU daily, as I try to limit higher level supplements going through my liver.

It's hard to quantify the effects of the correction, but I was able to correct it simply. Now my Vitamin D and B12 levels (my other small cross I had to bear) are in line.

MinnMan

I found out that I had a strong/moderate vitamin D deficient two years ago after I broke my hand (bike accident) and the bones wouldn't heal. I started on a D3 supplement but my levels didn't go up (and the bone healing also didn't proceed), and so I had injections of megadoses, followed by regular supplementation, which I still take. (2000 IU/day). Eventually, the bones healed. Here in Minnesota and in similar places, there isn't enough sunlight for most of the year to maintain vitamin D at healthy levels, and deficiencies are a widespread problem.

MinnMan

This is news to me. Can you point to a reference that suggests that large regular doses of vitamin D3 causing liver problems? If you have one, I prefer a citation to the peer-reviewed medical literature rather than a lay explanation.

RiPHRaPH

I think you misunderstood or I didn't make myself clear enough. I never said that higher doses of Vitamin D causes liver problems. I just said that I'm not crazy about you taking higher doses of Vitamin D through a 56 year old liver.

I am also erring on the side of caution because you didn't mention if you are taking other medicines. Since you didn't mention any, I can't automatically assume that you aren't. Hydrochlorothiazide is a popular diuretic that can cause calcium levels to rise to dangerous levels with high vitamin D levels.

There is a difference between toxicity and too much. I have seen the fad supplementation recommendation of the AMA over the years. Remember the vitamin E supplementation era? How about the vitamin A supplement craze? Each time it was endorsed by the AMA and each time it was rescinded after a few years when the community started to see problems.

A multivitamin has what... 600IU of Vitamin D? that is the RDA, as antiquated as those numbers are. I am naturally suspicious of supplements that are 10x the usual dose. The Endocrine Society recommends 2,000 IU daily.

Genetics and body weight must also be taken into account. I'm figuring a biker might be leaner than the general population, so again, I erred on the side of caution. I am just trying to get you to a good level the safest way possible. Again, I am skeptical about the recommendations due to the aforementioned issues with other fat soluble vitamins (A and E).

I follow these guidelines and the errors that the medical community puts out there as truth... I have been a pharmacist for 30 years and have watched the retractions for other supplements by the medical community over the decades. I also know human nature, which is to correct something quickly rather than gently correcting something over time. In other words, it took a while to bring about this mild deficiency, one would think that it would take a while to correct. Other deficiencies like iron deficiency takes a while to correct.

I can't cite you specific peer-reviewed medical literature but there is some intuition involved here. I'm not saying that 5,000IU causes liver or kidney problems, but not knowing your full medical history or your genetics presents a problem. I'm inclined to go slow since there is no time pressure and you only have one liver.


MinnMan. Your regular 2,000IU supplements is a good course. I am concerned with 5,000IU in a 56 year old with no time frame. Your high mega doses were under strict doctors orders and had a limited timeframe. Your 2,000IU dose is reasonable now. I've spoken with many doctors who feel that 5,000IU is too much especially when there is no imminent danger to extending the therapy a bit.

Retro Grouch 

I've been taking 3,000IU per day for several years.

My initial symptom was just feeling all the time like I was walking through water. I didn't feel sleepy, just tired all the time. After a blood test, my doctor put me on 50,000IU per week. I immediately felt better. When my prescription ran out I started using OTC vitamins. When I switched doctors, my new doctor wanted to know everything that I was taking. She hasn't commented about it. I'm feeling good. Don't plan on changing.

fietsbob

Ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) not 3..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergocalciferol..

makes sense rainy- grey Cool place, now, . already have dealt with a couple melanomas I dont sit in the sun

John E

I take a daily moderate dose of D3. I live in a fairly sunny climate, but greatly limit my sun exposure because of my Celtic skin type. (I am not a redhead, but I freckle and burn instead of tanning and have what my father always called "redhead skin.")

nashvillebill

There's evidently a debate whether D2 is as effective as taking D3, so taking D3 seems to be be preferred now.

Even though Phoenix has abundant sunshine, I don't stay outdoors a lot, and my doc said that the body doesn't always convert sunshine to D as it should, hence the need for a supplement. My liver results came back excellent by the way, I don't drink or take much medication other than lisinipril and synthroid...and probably too much ibuprofen, though my liver seems to tolerate it well. I'm cautiously hopeful that the D3 supplement may help ease some of my daily aches and thence help me reduce my ibuprofen use.

McBTC

Need more vitamin D? Then, you need more sun... That's the best way to safely get what you need. The top 10 Vitamin D Rich Foods (from wiki) -- I'd steer clear of raw milk tho -- are:

1) Sunlight - Promotes vitamin D synthesis from cholesterol in the skin.

2) Cod liver oil - 1 tsp: 440 IU (over 100% DV)

3) Sardines - 3 ounces: 164 IU (41% DV)

4) Salmon - 3 ounces: 400 IU (100% DV)

5) Mackerel - 3 ounces: 400 IU (100% DV)

6) Tuna - 3 ounces: 228 IU (57% DV)

7) Raw Milk - 1 cup: 98 IU (24% DV)

8) Caviar - 1 oz: 33 IU (8% DV)

9) Eggs - 1 large: 41 IU (10% DV)

10) Mushrooms - 1 cup: 2 IU (1% DV)

fietsbob

My D2 was by Prescription .. Not OTC or a "supplement"

MinnMan

Depending on where you live, sunlight may not be available and in northern climates, sun produces negligible vitamin D in the winter because the zenith angle is too low.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...98/figure/F23/

So "getting more sun" is not sufficient for many localities for large parts of the years.

John E

Not true on both ends of the human skin color spectrum, i.e., dark-skinned people at high latitudes (Eskimos get all of their Vitamin D from fish, none from the sun) and light-skinned or freckled people at low latitudes (melanoma is deadly).

VNA

Vitamins supplements over the counter are not regulated by any one or any credible labs--so much has been written by the lack of oversight in the last few years! Only prescribed supplements should be used, the over the counter's supplements are too often not what they claim to be.

Save your wallet and your health. Where you live should not make much of a difference since a lot of europeans live well North of the 45th parallel with no ill effects! (Minneapolis is almost at that latitude)
For most of us a good well balanced nutrition is by far healthier!

nashvillebill

Certainly I'm extremely skeptical of the inflated claims of the supplement industry, and I am also aware that some doctors tout a specific vitamin or supplement as a miraculous cure-all (e.g. Linus Pauling and his belief in mega-doses of Vitamin C). Of course proper diet and exercise is the way to go.

However, some people can't eat properly or exercise enough, and for other people, even proper diet and exercise isn't enough. When legitimate lab results show a deficiency, which it evidently has in my case, then I won't quibble too much over spending $6 on a bottle of 250 (quantity) OTC Vitamin D tablets. The OTC supplement industry certainly could use more oversight, with that I will agree, but that discussion ultimately could wind up getting into a political argument since some people vehemently shout that "we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-regulations-on-anything".

I'll take my chances with the OTC supplements rather than prescription since our great health care industry has decided to gouge patients at every possible opportunity, but that discussion again would drift into a political minefield. Some of the OTC supplement manufacturers do appear to be (just) ethical enough to deliver what's actually listed on the bottle; others of course have been found to be lacking.

Carbonfiberboy 

D3 is preferred to D2. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/589256_4

My wife's blood work showed low D levels. Dr. recommended starting with 6000 IU/day for a couple months, then tapering down to 2,000 IU, which we did. Her blood levels are now normal. This is not too surprising: we live in the PNW and are religious abut using long sleeves and/or sunscreen when it is sunny. I did the same as she. We've now been taking 2,000 IU/day for a few years, no damage .

mccornwall

I take 2000iu of D3 daily...and I concur with my fellow pharmacist's recommendations.

RiPHRaPH

Let's wrap this up now. The Drisdol 50,000 IU of D2 is a once weekly Rx given to BEGIN therapy for Vitamin D deficiency. The follow up after 12 weeks of 50,000IU of once weekly D2 is... 2,000IU daily dose of D3.

The D2 is considered a prodrug to the aforementioned D3.

Slamming your organ systems to clear high doses of anything, not just vitamin D is just not wise. Your body has a limited capacity to absorb any one vitamin daily... so the best therapy is daily exposure so your body can absorb it daily. Think sleep --> you can't sleep the entire weekend to catch up from not sleeping during the entire week.

I find the behavior of the people on this thread to be horrible. How can people be so snarky when they only know what they read on the internet. I think I know how we get the political figures we get in this country. Everyone is so busy shouting each other down that nobody listens.

Viking55803

My doctor here in Duluth, MN told me to start taking a Vitamin D supplement a number of years ago. I asked him what his experience was with patients in our area. He said every patient not taking a supplement was found to be deficient. We have about the same amount of annual sunshine as Seattle. The good news is that you should see the complexions on fair-skinned women (particularly) - many have no wrinkles into their 70's.

McBTC

Government's Vitamin D recommendations are said to be 200 IUs a day up to age 50, 400 IUs to age 70, and 600 IUs over 70... some advocate for 2,000 IUs a day and even more.

In some parts of the country, 10 minutes of midday summer UV-B rays on exposed legs, arms and faces can make up to 10,000 IUs. No matter what our skin type is, the time of year, the latitude where we live, what we eat, let's face it: we all will be healthier if we get more not less outdoor activity, irrespective of whatever supplements we take.

Maybe some amount of supplementation is beneficial at some times. Just drinking fortified milk is taking supplements. But, we also should be aware of similar recommendations that did not prove to be healthy advice-- e.g., suggestions to take beta carotene and vitamin E proved to be dangerous:

From the NYT-

John E

Again, for certain skin types at certain latitudes, melanoma is a genuine concern, particularly with our still-compromised protective upper atmosphere ozone layer. Skin cancer is rampant in Australia, and we see a lot of it here in southern California, as well.

jmiked

I've been on a doctor-recommended Calcium Citrate+Vitamin D regimen for several years. This is in conjunction with some medication to slow down loss of bone density. The vitamin D is 800IU a day. My blood work always comes back in the normal range.

Other than that, I take no supplements.

Leisesturm

I did not read every post. I read enough to see a consistent body of thought to the effect that someone active, going out in the sun everyday, is getting adequate amounts of Vit. D. Wrong. Shorts and T-Shirts dom't even come close to exposing enough skin surface to the sun to receive adequate amounts of sun in North America. Speedo's and/or String Bikini's are more like it. But, it has to be said, significant populations of people cannot even make use of the sun levels found in North America without skin damage (sunburn).

My wife (and nutritionist) started giving me 5,000 IU vit. D everyday (most days) around 2 years ago. When I was tested for vit. D during a pre-surgery physical last year I was at the bottom of the normal range. My wife has upped my regimen to 15,000 IU. The poster advising caution over 5,000 IU is being overcautious. The poster taking 50,000IU... well I hope that's a typo, Ill leave that at that.

Nutrition is critical in 2016. None of us reading this forum can afford eat the way our parents did! If you want to live as long and as healthy a life as is possible with the onslaught of environmental challenges that are a given in most of the U.S. and also a good part of the rest of the world then hyper-nutrition is a good place to start. Critical need not mean 'complex'. Taking a multi-vitamin everyday (most days anyway) is hardly hard to manage. Considering it important enough (critical enough) to your longevity to introduce into your lifestyle... well that's the thing, isn't it.

I hope you are listening, because I am very serious. You don't want to get seriously sick in 2016. They don't have the science to save you. If you are very lucky you will pull through despite them (they will take the credit). You won't die, not right away anyway, but you will be destroyed financially, with or without health insurance. Our (wife and I) approach to nutrition is much less about feeling good and having more energy for bike riding, and much more about supporting as strong and healthy an immune system as is possible. Luckily, attention to the latter takes care of the former at the same time.

I don't have anything against Wal-Mart per se. I used to take their 'One Source' multi-vitamins, but I'm just putting it out there. Prevention is way cheaper than cure, and that being the case, why cheap out on Prevention? The cost of a comprehensive multi-vitamin formula like a Nature's Way "Alive" might be much higher than from a dept. store or grocery chain product line, but IMO it goes the extra mile for you. FWIW.

P.S. @nashvillebill. I'm two years older than you. The real ticket to the lift you are looking for is a multi-formula with a big hit of B-Complex (200% of RDA). Even a decent B-Complex formula on its own. That will put the cha-ching in your cadence that might be lacking as you watch the 20 something blast past, mumbling "on your left"...

MinnMan

Because you "did not read every post", you misunderstood much of the information in this thread. But thanks anyway.

RiPHRaPH

Please be careful about sweeping assurances concerning health. I'm not sure anyone is qualified to say for certain what the hormonal form of vitamin D supplementation does. The lipophilic nature of Vitamin D explains its adipose tissue distribution and its slow turnover in the body (1/2 life of 2 months) or its main transported metabolite that shows a 1/2 life of 15 days. Not to mention that its impossible to micro-manage one value without effecting many others - as there is a certain 'cascade mechanism' of other components at play here.

I'm not in a position to say what metabolites and other things are at play when over-supplementing with anything. If science is cautious about hyper-supplementation then I'm erring on the side of caution. I can only warn of possible harm. No sweeping proclamations. Only words of caution. No promises, only intuitive thought.