Benefit of thru axle
11-26-18, 08:05 AM
#26
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I like both QR & TA but my preference is TA with disc.
11-26-18, 08:41 AM
#27
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I've never noticed this problem, and I've taken my (front) wheel off and replaced it hundreds of times to put my bike on the bike rack. Maybe it's different with rear wheels, though I don't remember this being an issue the last time I replaced the rear tire. Maybe I just have more clearance between the caliper and the rotor than some.
11-26-18, 09:45 AM
#28
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I also take my QR wheels off a disc bike often and never notice a need to line up or adjust after. They just sit at the base of the slot and tighten. Perhaps one key is to make sure the axle is sitting in its natural resting position before making the initial set up of the pads.
I don't buy the additional stiffness argument for TA's in non suspension forks. If you look at it mechanically, both QR's and TA's sit in a rigid fork and are clamped tight at the distal end. The fork itself has no play and there is not that much play going on in a clamped QR axle. Suspension forks may be a different issue but for the road (to me) it's six of one, half dozen of the other.
I don't buy the additional stiffness argument for TA's in non suspension forks. If you look at it mechanically, both QR's and TA's sit in a rigid fork and are clamped tight at the distal end. The fork itself has no play and there is not that much play going on in a clamped QR axle. Suspension forks may be a different issue but for the road (to me) it's six of one, half dozen of the other.
11-26-18, 07:31 PM
#29
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I also take my QR wheels off a disc bike often and never notice a need to line up or adjust after. They just sit at the base of the slot and tighten. Perhaps one key is to make sure the axle is sitting in its natural resting position before making the initial set up of the pads.
I don't buy the additional stiffness argument for TA's in non suspension forks. If you look at it mechanically, both QR's and TA's sit in a rigid fork and are clamped tight at the distal end. The fork itself has no play and there is not that much play going on in a clamped QR axle. Suspension forks may be a different issue but for the road (to me) it's six of one, half dozen of the other.
I don't buy the additional stiffness argument for TA's in non suspension forks. If you look at it mechanically, both QR's and TA's sit in a rigid fork and are clamped tight at the distal end. The fork itself has no play and there is not that much play going on in a clamped QR axle. Suspension forks may be a different issue but for the road (to me) it's six of one, half dozen of the other.
Last edited by Point; 11-26-18 at 09:33 PM.
11-27-18, 12:29 AM
#30
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Yes, I don't know enough about suspension forks to say one way or the other but could imagine that a through axle may have some effect on stiffness when individual blades are able to move up and down independent of the other but... when the fork is rigid, the only means of movement is at the axle itself and I don't see that with a QR. Just doesn't happen.
11-27-18, 07:17 AM
#31
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If thru-axle had been the norm, and QR were a new innovation, we'd all be talking about how 99.9% of cyclists don't benefit from QR.
11-27-18, 08:15 AM
#32
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Regarding suspension forks:
Years ago (shortly after 15mmTA was introduced) a German magazine (it is always the Germans)) published an article summarizing 2 lab tests that compared the stiffness of QR and TA forks.
At the time, a few forks were available in both QR and TA versions, so you could really compare apples to apples.
One test compared the Rock Shox Reba in 9mmQR and 20mmTA (RS was trying to move to 20mm at the time).
Anothet compared some Fox fork (I forget which) in both 9mmQR and 15mmTA.
Both tested “stiffness” in a number of different ways (e.g., lateral, twisting in several different planes).
In both cases, the difference in stiffness - particularly along the steering axis - was significantly increased in the TA forks.
This was news to pretty much nobody who had used a TA fork.
I wish I could link to the article, but I would need to do a lot of searching on MTBR to find the thread where I got the link.
Years ago (shortly after 15mmTA was introduced) a German magazine (it is always the Germans)) published an article summarizing 2 lab tests that compared the stiffness of QR and TA forks.
At the time, a few forks were available in both QR and TA versions, so you could really compare apples to apples.
One test compared the Rock Shox Reba in 9mmQR and 20mmTA (RS was trying to move to 20mm at the time).
Anothet compared some Fox fork (I forget which) in both 9mmQR and 15mmTA.
Both tested “stiffness” in a number of different ways (e.g., lateral, twisting in several different planes).
In both cases, the difference in stiffness - particularly along the steering axis - was significantly increased in the TA forks.
This was news to pretty much nobody who had used a TA fork.
I wish I could link to the article, but I would need to do a lot of searching on MTBR to find the thread where I got the link.
11-27-18, 08:47 AM
#33
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When reinstalling the wheel, you flip the lever to the closed position, and a secure and properly tensioned connection is established between the frame and wheel.
No pointless spinning, and my solution takes under 5 seconds. Wow: a revolutionary development.
The only problem being that the rapacious American legal industry won't allow this, as apparently, cyclists are too stupid to use quick releases the way they should be used.
11-27-18, 09:23 AM
#34
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Dangerous, elitist thinking. Most riders would be well-served by a couple allen bolts and a short hex wrench. The 99.9% don't benefit from, nor even are capable of, the sort of super-fast wheel changes that one sees in the Tour de France.
11-27-18, 10:41 AM
#35
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No. Rotors and calipers don't care what kind of axle you have.
No. Spoke tension doesn't care what kind of axle you have.
Not really. You're running tubeless though, right?
No. And as already stated, QR and TA is not interchangeable. Your bike takes one or the other, not both.
.
No. Spoke tension doesn't care what kind of axle you have.
.
11-27-18, 10:58 AM
#37
Senior Member
Regarding suspension forks:
Years ago (shortly after 15mmTA was introduced) a German magazine (it is always the Germans)) published an article summarizing 2 lab tests that compared the stiffness of QR and TA forks.
At the time, a few forks were available in both QR and TA versions, so you could really compare apples to apples.
One test compared the Rock Shox Reba in 9mmQR and 20mmTA (RS was trying to move to 20mm at the time).
Anothet compared some Fox fork (I forget which) in both 9mmQR and 15mmTA.
Both tested “stiffness” in a number of different ways (e.g., lateral, twisting in several different planes).
In both cases, the difference in stiffness - particularly along the steering axis - was significantly increased in the TA forks.
This was news to pretty much nobody who had used a TA fork.
I wish I could link to the article, but I would need to do a lot of searching on MTBR to find the thread where I got the link.
Years ago (shortly after 15mmTA was introduced) a German magazine (it is always the Germans)) published an article summarizing 2 lab tests that compared the stiffness of QR and TA forks.
At the time, a few forks were available in both QR and TA versions, so you could really compare apples to apples.
One test compared the Rock Shox Reba in 9mmQR and 20mmTA (RS was trying to move to 20mm at the time).
Anothet compared some Fox fork (I forget which) in both 9mmQR and 15mmTA.
Both tested “stiffness” in a number of different ways (e.g., lateral, twisting in several different planes).
In both cases, the difference in stiffness - particularly along the steering axis - was significantly increased in the TA forks.
This was news to pretty much nobody who had used a TA fork.
I wish I could link to the article, but I would need to do a lot of searching on MTBR to find the thread where I got the link.
https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...-vs-thru-axle/
11-27-18, 03:47 PM
#38
Senior Member
Here is a summary of the sorry saga that got us to thru-axles on road bikes:
- 1930s: Tulio Campagnolo invents the QR system, a major improvement over the rotating wing-nut system that was standard on better bikes. The QR is superior in both speed of wheel removal, and the strength of wheel retention.
- 1980s: Some dumbass (almost certainly in the US) hurts himself by not properly using a QR, and after being represented by a rapacious contingency-fee lawyer and abetted by a muddle-headed judge, wins a big settlement. From now on, front QR wheels must have and additional retention system, such as lawyer tabs.
- From now on: Bike users for the last 30 years of suffered the useless ritual of spinning the nut on the skewer to get past the lawyer tabs, and then having to re-calibrate the nut to get a proper tension, and then flip the QR skewer.
- In actual fact, most cyclists don't know how to do this, and simply spin the open skewer until they meet some rotating resistance. So there is barely enough tension to hold the wheel in.
- So, thru-axels are developed to compensate for this user error: the end of the skewer is threaded, and passes through the hub, so users can spin away and obtain a proper tension. So now this whole pointless ritual takes at least 30 seconds instead of 5, and introduces the whole new risk of losing or damaging the threads on a frame-specific skewer.
BTW: note that we are essentially back to the system found on bikes in the 1920's - prior to Campagnolo's critical invention.
11-27-18, 03:53 PM
#39
Senior Member
Follow-up question: I think someone should develop a conversion system that would allow a thru-axles frame to take a standard QR wheel.. Shouldn't be hard: two plugs on the frame that leave with a hole for the skewer and a standard 9mm front axle. You would also have to grind a slot in the fork legs for the wheel axle to drop through. This would give you the advantages of a conventional QR system.
11-27-18, 04:46 PM
#40
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Follow-up question: I think someone should develop a conversion system that would allow a thru-axles frame to take a standard QR wheel.. Shouldn't be hard: two plugs on the frame that leave with a hole for the skewer and a standard 9mm front axle. You would also have to grind a slot in the fork legs for the wheel axle to drop through. This would give you the advantages of a conventional QR system.
11-27-18, 06:38 PM
#41
Senior Member
For shiggles, and to stoke the fire: there have been excellent QR through axles made, in terms of speed, anyway. Suntour and Manitou come to mind immediately.
Enjoying watching people argue [bullheadedly, about] both sides. Anyone who's actually owned both would know that both systems have pluses and minuses.
Enjoying watching people argue [bullheadedly, about] both sides. Anyone who's actually owned both would know that both systems have pluses and minuses.
