Kicking over bikeshare bikes
10-24-18, 08:21 PM
#76
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10-24-18, 09:02 PM
#77
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Second even if there is a reduction in auto traffic and I suspect there isn't, is the tradeoff in resources worth it? Namely, binning and recycling or even trashing just as much in the way of resources as other forms of transportation would have. If not more. Is a giant mound of trashed bikes and parts any better than a junkyard full of totaled cars and a handful of useable parts?
It's hard to say without actual evidence. It's like in the Oakley thread. Some random guy insists every pair of oakleys meets the industrial standard because he says so. Cuz Stone Cold Said So! Or something like that. Obviously he or she has no evidence or proof they just keep repeating themselves. There must be some sort of impact study by an environmental researcher or city planner or whatnot.
10-24-18, 10:58 PM
#78
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I meant more like a citywide, countywide, statewide or national study with comparative stats. One of the neighboring towns has a bike share program. I don't see traffic impacted at all, meaning there has been no reduction as far as I can tell.
Second even if there is a reduction in auto traffic and I suspect there isn't, is the tradeoff in resources worth it? Namely, binning and recycling or even trashing just as much in the way of resources as other forms of transportation would have. If not more. Is a giant mound of trashed bikes and parts any better than a junkyard full of totaled cars and a handful of useable parts?
It's hard to say without actual evidence. It's like in the Oakley thread. Some random guy insists every pair of oakleys meets the industrial standard because he says so. Cuz Stone Cold Said So! Or something like that. Obviously he or she has no evidence or proof they just keep repeating themselves. There must be some sort of impact study by an environmental researcher or city planner or whatnot.
Second even if there is a reduction in auto traffic and I suspect there isn't, is the tradeoff in resources worth it? Namely, binning and recycling or even trashing just as much in the way of resources as other forms of transportation would have. If not more. Is a giant mound of trashed bikes and parts any better than a junkyard full of totaled cars and a handful of useable parts?
It's hard to say without actual evidence. It's like in the Oakley thread. Some random guy insists every pair of oakleys meets the industrial standard because he says so. Cuz Stone Cold Said So! Or something like that. Obviously he or she has no evidence or proof they just keep repeating themselves. There must be some sort of impact study by an environmental researcher or city planner or whatnot.
And, of course, if it's a crappy city to bike in, hard to believe people are going to use them much at all.
10-25-18, 07:28 PM
#79
Senior Member
The trouble with e-scooters is that it's not defined how to deal with them right now. I see them parked, 5 in a row, right in the middle of the sidewalk, sometimes blocking a choke point. People zip down the sidewalk at 15-20 mph (if not that fast, then certainly faster than I can run) with no warning to pedestrians they're coming up behind. And they're pretty quiet, so lots of surprised people. Some are in the street, against traffic. It's the wild west. I wonder what will happen to them come winter when the plows are trying to clear the sidewalks and the scooters are parked everywhere - or after the walks are plowed/shoveled and the scooters are taking up the entire cleared path.
I don't see the attraction, at least here. Most of them are clustered around downtown, where everything is a few blocks away, and taking a scooter a few blocks will cost as much as a bus ride across town. You'd have to take one on the bus with you to use it for the last few blocks between bus & home.
I don't see the attraction, at least here. Most of them are clustered around downtown, where everything is a few blocks away, and taking a scooter a few blocks will cost as much as a bus ride across town. You'd have to take one on the bus with you to use it for the last few blocks between bus & home.
10-25-18, 09:07 PM
#80
Senior Member
Last week as I was riding North on the Burke-Gilman trail out of the University of Washington, I noted a cyclist coming the other direction. She subtly kicked over a Lime bike, which was nicely parked on the side of the trail with a few other Lime bikes. (Lime bikes are those shared bicycles in Seattle.)
Is kicking shared bikes over a thing?
Is kicking shared bikes over a thing?
I don't believe that vandalizing the bikes is a reasonable response, but I fully understand the hostility they engender.
Mark
10-26-18, 05:56 AM
#81
Senior Member
Exactly. I think that eventually (if they prove to be economically viable,) we'll see regulations to dictate things like where they're parked and how they're to be used, and who is liable for what; and that'll cool a lot of jets. I'll move them when they're parked across an ADA sidewalk ramp or similarly-bad spot, but deliberate damage isn't the answer.
10-26-18, 08:12 AM
#82
C*pt*i* Obvious
This seems to be the case all over the world, its not about the bikes, its about data collection.
I have 3 of my own bikes and many public transportation options to choose from, I consider these bikes to be a joke, they do serve a purpose for many users though.
Its easy to cure bad behavior, limit supply, and make the users more accountable, it worked quite well in the beginning years ago.
I have 3 of my own bikes and many public transportation options to choose from, I consider these bikes to be a joke, they do serve a purpose for many users though.
Its easy to cure bad behavior, limit supply, and make the users more accountable, it worked quite well in the beginning years ago.
10-26-18, 09:00 AM
#83
SuperGimp
Ironically, Santa Monica has regulated scooters off the beach bike path but not e-bikes. Go figure, they use it anyway. Bikes, e-scooters and e-bikes all travel at roughly similar speeds, doesn't really make sense to me. I know you have to lock a jump bike to (something, preferably a bike rack) when you're done using them, so it would seem the problem of random parking of e-objects would be something we could solve without disposing of the entire system.
10-26-18, 11:43 AM
#84
Senior Member
As opposed to electric scooters, the biggest problem I see with bike shares is that, as with the scooters, the riders are totally clueless as to how they should be used. Well, I suppose that's also true for about 70% of bicycle commuters who are using their own bikes.
10-29-18, 08:30 AM
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I think those stats might differ from place to place. Last survey I read for my city, it turned out that new cyclists were mainly recruited from people using public transportation, not from car drivers.
Which turns out to be a so-so deal.
A person on a bike takes less road space than a person in a car, but more road space(per person) than a reasonably filled bus or tram.
Which turns out to be a so-so deal.
A person on a bike takes less road space than a person in a car, but more road space(per person) than a reasonably filled bus or tram.
10-29-18, 09:29 AM
#86
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I think those stats might differ from place to place. Last survey I read for my city, it turned out that new cyclists were mainly recruited from people using public transportation, not from car drivers.
Which turns out to be a so-so deal.
A person on a bike takes less road space than a person in a car, but more road space(per person) than a reasonably filled bus or tram.
Which turns out to be a so-so deal.
A person on a bike takes less road space than a person in a car, but more road space(per person) than a reasonably filled bus or tram.
Yes, but some cites are encouraging bike use to ease overcrowding on the transit systems--adding transit capacity to surface methods may be impractical without significantly worsening traffic far beyond the addition of bikes, and adding subway capacity is extremely expensive.
Other places are using the bikes to bring people onto transit by encouraging "last mile" usage.
Totally agree that aggregated national statistics would probably be useful because of the variety of strategies being applied and the differing goals they entail. Also, while additional bikes might not actually improve things, they might be staving off worse congestion that would have happened without the bikes, and it's very hard to measure things that were prevented before they would have occurred.
10-29-18, 12:55 PM
#87
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I'm not justifying her actions, as vandalism is vandalism.
But, the sentiment is real. These companies come to town without contacting anyone. Not the city, not the county, not the neighborhoods.
Then they just dump them everywhere. Lots of people DO leave them in pretty **** places along trails, sidewalks, and other busy walking and biking areas. Then it costs my tax dollars for the city to contact the company, complain, form new rules and regulations just for them.
While the vandalism is criminal, the sentiment is well founded.
I'm more of a fan of a docked bike share. Lose money for being a slob.
Don't get me started on the scooters. Empowering morons everywhere.
If they followed the rules to begin with, people wouldn't be pissed.
I say, ticket the girl for vandalism AND sue the company for taking up city resources to fix their littering and rules problems.
But, the sentiment is real. These companies come to town without contacting anyone. Not the city, not the county, not the neighborhoods.
Then they just dump them everywhere. Lots of people DO leave them in pretty **** places along trails, sidewalks, and other busy walking and biking areas. Then it costs my tax dollars for the city to contact the company, complain, form new rules and regulations just for them.
While the vandalism is criminal, the sentiment is well founded.
I'm more of a fan of a docked bike share. Lose money for being a slob.
Don't get me started on the scooters. Empowering morons everywhere.
If they followed the rules to begin with, people wouldn't be pissed.
I say, ticket the girl for vandalism AND sue the company for taking up city resources to fix their littering and rules problems.
10-29-18, 01:14 PM
#88
Senior Member
I think those stats might differ from place to place. Last survey I read for my city, it turned out that new cyclists were mainly recruited from people using public transportation, not from car drivers.
Which turns out to be a so-so deal.
A person on a bike takes less road space than a person in a car, but more road space(per person) than a reasonably filled bus or tram.
Which turns out to be a so-so deal.
A person on a bike takes less road space than a person in a car, but more road space(per person) than a reasonably filled bus or tram.
Where I live, public transportation is completely non-viable. The buses don't show up, or they show up very early or very late, and a 10 mile ride can take well over an hour, with very limited availability. Sprawling suburb design doesn't help either. The US is a huge country and very spread out. The car is still king and will be for a very long time. City or especially suburb designers don't care about accessibility via bike or even ebike really, it's all about huge parking lots and big homes. I'm not really sure how much our input matters as bicycle riders and commuters but I'm not convinced that bike shares will significant impact traffic in a positive way.
10-29-18, 04:50 PM
#89
Senior Member
She sounds like a jerk.
I echo the opinion of others that the issues with bike share are more related to the riders than the bikes. Scooter drivers are worse though as they don’t seem to understand the rules of the road/sidewalk and I’ve heard of complaints of people almost being hit while walking on their lunch break.
As an aside I was riding on a somewhat remote country road and saw one of these bikes on the side of the road. Either someone really wanted to ride that far or the bike was otherwise transported there 😀.
I echo the opinion of others that the issues with bike share are more related to the riders than the bikes. Scooter drivers are worse though as they don’t seem to understand the rules of the road/sidewalk and I’ve heard of complaints of people almost being hit while walking on their lunch break.
As an aside I was riding on a somewhat remote country road and saw one of these bikes on the side of the road. Either someone really wanted to ride that far or the bike was otherwise transported there 😀.
10-29-18, 06:15 PM
#90
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Part of the problem is that cities don't enforce laws. In Santa Monica, police rarely stop or give tickets to those scooters. They claim they don't have enough officers. But I fail to understand this as each ticket is several hundred dollars.
As usual, some people have no common sense and abuse them. Others use them responsibly. Hey...wait a minute...this reminds me of how cars are driven! :-)
As usual, some people have no common sense and abuse them. Others use them responsibly. Hey...wait a minute...this reminds me of how cars are driven! :-)
Bingo!
Every ride share customer agreement includes training and parking etiquette. The bad customers are just ignoring their social contract to the public. This is a sector of public interaction with no consequence. There are laws against riding your bikes on the sidewalk and you can get a ticket if there were willful enforcement.
I live and work in San Francisco - ground zero proofing grounds for all these ride share companies. I recall the first gen Ford bikes docks first appeared on downtown SF Market street. = Homeless spin class.
I have been a cyclist / motorcyclist / car driver / skate boarder ever since I got my license at 16. (Not in exact order).
Problem really isn’t the companies that created the tool, but how one uses them. I think most people misplace their anger. Can you blame the car manufacturer for someone intentionally driving on the sidewalk or being unruly on the road?
I tried Bird when they first came on the scene in SF. I loved it. My normal commute is 15 miles over the hills of SF 40mins on public transport / 35 mins cycling / 35 mins on eScoot. On my not-so-fresh (post century) days I would take public transport and hate the commute. On multipurpose bike paths, it’s all about the etiquette. (Doesn’t matter what you are riding). Slow approach, announce your self and low passing speed - every body is happy. I go the extra mile and will get off and walk pass unleashed dogs.
I liked the eScoot so much that I bought a xiaomi m365 for $499 right from Amazon. (Same as the Bird type). I figured at $5 per day on public transport, the scooter paid for itself in a few months. When the city shut down all the eScoots, I sold mine for $400 in CL. (People really wanted these things)
Last, most tourists don’t understand the local laws and road etiquette, that will probably never change...
10-29-18, 09:06 PM
#91
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People kick over that crap all the time, I have seen bikes and those dumb scooters fall over mysteriously after I walk by sometimes.
The issue is not really with more cycling but with careless individuals and companies who dump junk onto sidewalks and abandon them when they are done as if the city is their own personal trash can that they never have to clean up. The docked bikes are fine, people have to put them back in a dock and while some of the riders are not interested in knowing how to ride in traffic or on a sidewalk or just in general at least they cannot leave a mess. Plus those docked bikeshares are usually pretty well maintained and taken care of so you don't have a lot of issues with the bikes or stations (though labor practices are a big deal).
A good number of people are fairly trashy and act as if their trash they leave somewhere is someone else's responsibility and companies that dump these BSOs in cities help further promote that horrid lifestyle. If you look to China you will see all these dockless bike share companies at their finest, huge tracts of abandoned scrap metal with pedals and tires.
If people could put things in trash cans and clean up after themselves and act like responsible adults then it is possible these dockless bikeshares could work a little better but alas our garbage cans just simply are large enough for a Lime bike ; )
The issue is not really with more cycling but with careless individuals and companies who dump junk onto sidewalks and abandon them when they are done as if the city is their own personal trash can that they never have to clean up. The docked bikes are fine, people have to put them back in a dock and while some of the riders are not interested in knowing how to ride in traffic or on a sidewalk or just in general at least they cannot leave a mess. Plus those docked bikeshares are usually pretty well maintained and taken care of so you don't have a lot of issues with the bikes or stations (though labor practices are a big deal).
A good number of people are fairly trashy and act as if their trash they leave somewhere is someone else's responsibility and companies that dump these BSOs in cities help further promote that horrid lifestyle. If you look to China you will see all these dockless bike share companies at their finest, huge tracts of abandoned scrap metal with pedals and tires.
If people could put things in trash cans and clean up after themselves and act like responsible adults then it is possible these dockless bikeshares could work a little better but alas our garbage cans just simply are large enough for a Lime bike ; )
10-29-18, 11:16 PM
#92
Cycleway town
E-scooters are illegal in Britain, so we just don't have these problems (or solutions). Birdy, Sedgeway, whatever, all banned from public areas.
Mobility scooters have as 4mph limit for pavements/walkways. Anything else must be pedal assisted.
Mobility scooters have as 4mph limit for pavements/walkways. Anything else must be pedal assisted.
10-30-18, 08:46 AM
#93
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Dockless bikes seem to be working pretty well in places that have done some variation of this.
11-02-18, 08:51 AM
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In my part of the city, those bikes are running in numbers per block, left all over the place including on the side streets themselves with no regard to anyone. And I'm certain many, most, or possibly even all of them have been hacked to bypass the necessary cc payment per mile to access it, cause I've seen many kids on and off those things, that probably hardly have $5 cash to their name,- much less a valid credit card
11-02-18, 09:15 AM
#95
Senior Member
https://www.qcode.us/codes/santamonic...ns/2587CCS.pdf
However, I haven't seen the police enforce this yet. They're just going after e-scooters. But I think it's just a matter of time.
Furthermore, they are also saying bike-shares are not allowed on the beach path either. Doesn't matter if it's electric or not. See the chart 1/4 page down:
https://www.smgov.net/Departments/PC...lity-Services/
The reason they are not allowing regular bike share may be because they're afraid people will leave them in the middle of the path (like they do with scooters). Also, bike-share will severely hurt all the bike rental places along the beach path. This is just my guess.
11-02-18, 09:15 AM
#96
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These companies come to town without contacting anyone. Not the city, not the county, not the neighborhoods.
Then they just dump them everywhere. Lots of people DO leave them in pretty **** places along trails, sidewalks, and other busy walking and biking areas. Then it costs my tax dollars for the city to contact the company, complain, form new rules and regulations just for the
Then they just dump them everywhere. Lots of people DO leave them in pretty **** places along trails, sidewalks, and other busy walking and biking areas. Then it costs my tax dollars for the city to contact the company, complain, form new rules and regulations just for the
Of course bikeshare companies get permission from local authorities beforehand.
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/01...hare-movement/
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...wn-bike-lanes/
etc.
etc.
(Google is your friend here)
11-02-18, 09:50 AM
#97
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You’re either just making stuff up or ignorant. Which is it?
Of course bikeshare companies get permission from local authorities beforehand.
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/01...hare-movement/
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...wn-bike-lanes/
etc.
etc.
(Google is your friend here)
Of course bikeshare companies get permission from local authorities beforehand.
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/01...hare-movement/
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...wn-bike-lanes/
etc.
etc.
(Google is your friend here)
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/high...n-urban-litter
11-02-18, 10:11 AM
#98
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To be fair, there have been places when companies just dropped the bikes off without clearing it with the cities. It generally does not end well for the companies:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/high...n-urban-litter
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/high...n-urban-litter
It doesnt support your claim that bikeshare companies just dropped off bikes in Highland Park.
11-02-18, 10:41 AM
#99
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You’re either just making stuff up or ignorant. Which is it?
Of course bikeshare companies get permission from local authorities beforehand.
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/01...hare-movement/
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...wn-bike-lanes/
(Google is your friend here)
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11-02-18, 10:44 AM
#100
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Well, technically, Dallas let them drop them off, and the companies let their customers dump them in Highland, but close enough. Dallas' experiment with unregulated bike share died a very quick death as well.
Places where it seems to be succeeding regulate and license. Places that don't end up with a fresh supply of scrap metal.