cyccommute 

I don’t use IGH because I can’t see spending the extra money on the hub. Even with high end derailer systems, they are a fraction of the cost of an IGH. My point was that even with a derailer system and a chain, you don’t have to spend the amount of time that people do on cleaning.

CrankyOne

Drastic reduction in maintenance? I think the average owner of a chain drive IGH bicycle needs to do maintenance about once every 10-20 years. This even when living in a winter environment and leaving the bicycle outside all year. So what's a drastic reduction? Once every 100 years?

DropBarFan

The "drastic reduction" I referred to is the chain, not the IGH. But IGH itself needs more maintenance than once every 10 years. Sturmey-Archer advised to add 3 drops of oil each month & also to tighten the cable occasionally with the barrel adjuster. Shimano advises to change Alfine oil every 2 yrs/3,000 miles & Rohloff once/yr I think.

In re chains, anyone who rides regularly, say 50+ miles/week, has to at least lube occasionally & install a new chain every 2-5 years. Whereas a belt is near-zero maintenance unless used off-road where sand & dirt might build up. Even then belt is trivial to clean,

phughes

Brilliant first post. Simply brilliant.

Slightspeed

Can't believe this stupid troll rant went on for 6 pages. Oh oh, there I go giving it new life. 🤨

spelger

Is that to say you can't shift with a derailleur while standing? I do it all the time (rear only). Or am I misunderstanding you?

-scott

Old ABLA Member

Thank you for all the responses. At a minimum I seek to have a drive train with close to zero maintenance with added weight not being a concern if it's just a pound or two. At present the alternatives are an internal rear hub like one of those nexus 11 speeds or 8 or 7 speed,.. even a three speed. This combined with a chain drive cover over the perfectly aligned front and rear cogs with a hole up top to open and drip in the odd bit of oil as needed as you turn the crank for even distribution. That would be it for maintenance of the drive train in any kind of conditions. This could easily be achieved if someone would please create a line of top quality adjustable chain drive covers easily fitted to any single rear and front cog drive. It could just be made of lightweight rust free rigid black recycled plastic with a 'universal' mounting system. This does not exist at present. He who creates and patents such a cover will sell many of them. I found a place in Holland that sells steel traditional ones. The time is right for the chain cover I described. So how about it engineers out there?

The other available alternative is the significantly more expensive Pinion Gear box combined with the Gates Carbon Drive. This requires a frame that comes apart to allow the installation of the drive belt. This is an uncommon frame, and thus this low maintenance drive train is not suitable for retrofit onto what must be 99% of the frames out there.

Perhaps the racing component people would attempt to design a lightweight 15 speed rear internal hub. The chain drive would be shrouded in an aerodynamic low maintenance cover.

livedarklions

Only issue with this is if you have downtube shifters. Any shifter on the handlebars can be used while standing, although I suppose it could be an issue with bar end shifters, but I haven't had those enough to have tried.

noglider 

You can, within limitations. I'm saying that you might like a derailleur because it's lighter than an IGH, but if you have both, then you have the high weight of the IGH. If you like an IGH because of its lower maintenance and you have both, you will still have the high maintenance of the derailleur.

63rickert

You are describing a chaincase. They most certainly work. Problem is removing the rear wheel. On traditional bikes such as a Raleigh DL-1 or what is commonly called a Dutchbike the seatstay unbolts before the chaincase comes off. The only way around that is partial chaincases (which are just elaborate chainguards) and fabric chaincases which have a whole different range of problems. Most who own bikes with chaincases will always take to bike shop to fix a rear flat. If you live in Amsterdam that may be reasonable. Other places be prepared to pay and to discover shop doesn't want to do it a second time.

There is an engineering solution. It's been done. It would be nice if it were done again but do not hold your breath. If you are old enough to call yourself an ABLA member you may recall Cinelli Bivalent hubs. The wheel came off while the entire drivetrain remained attached to the bike. Hub connected to sprockets with large but shallow splines. Combining the Cinelli system with an IGH and a chaincase would make a lot of sense. Do you want to pay for prototypes? It would all be perfectly straightforward. Machining costs and detail design problems would be expensive but it could certainly be done.

The historical best chaincase was the one fitted to Sunbeams in the 20s and early 30s. That one was a full oil bath and did not leak. Chains lasted indefinitely. The proprietary Sunbeam epicyclic 3speed hub also lasted indefinitely, which it should have, as every part was hand machined and hand fitted.

Modern 7,8,11,14 speed IGH hubs have their place but they are hardly trouble free and are very heavy.

Needles

Part of the problem is the same as with internal combustion engines vs hybrids/electrics/alternate engine types(Like turbines, or the Rosen bros drivetrain, for instance.) Derailleurs have had many years of refinement. Manufacturers are reluctant to fund development for new ways when the old ones work well enough and cheaper.

HTupolev

Bar end shifters can be used while standing, but it's definitely clumsier than with STI. Where you are in the gear range (angle of the shift lever) and whether you're pulling or releasing cable affects the ergonomics of the situation.

I'll sometimes shift bar-ends out of the saddle if I'm going easy, but if it's a maximal effort I'll generally momentarily touch back down on the saddle.

CrankyOne

Those may be recommendations and certainly good to do but the reality is the vast majority of people, likely over 9 out of 10, ride them until something breaks and then take them to the bike shop. The average person in The Netherlands rides about 85 miles per week and I'd guess, other than a tyre or frozen cable, take their bicycle in for maintenance less than once every 10 years. And yes, at this point things are in poor shape so definitely a good cleaning, new chain, oil in the IGH and oil in the cables. Possibly an IGH rebuild. And we'll see you in another 10 or 20 years.

DropBarFan

Sounds accurate to me; OTOH in the big Dutch cities bike theft is a huge problem so folks ride junky bikes for commuting & have little incentive to do maintenance. A friend who used to live in the Netherlands said that many folks have a second nicer bike for recreation/touring. In the best-seller book The Happy Hooker, (Dutch) author Xaviera Hollander wrote that she oiled her bike chain, I was impressed, heh.

Cyclist753

If you must run into the store for something then put your bike into its highest gear. You just might catch the thief if you see them get on your ride and try to pedal away! Sorry for hijack

63rickert

So that's like a 40,000 mile service interval? Gosh, I better get a Dutch bike

satrain18

Here's the proper procedure. And yes, it is as daunting and convoluted as it looks:

satrain18

CrankyOne is WAY off. Dutch figures show 2 1/2 miles a day.

Gresp15C

Likewise all of the industrial wheel systems with individually adjustable spokes.

Ariane

I too hate derailleur geared bikes for every day practical bikes and touring bikes where you have to ride in all weathers come rain or shine. In Europe particularly Germany and Holland there are many more practical bikes with IHG such as the Rohloff Speedhub and gearboxes such as Pinion and with belts instead of chains and those bike with chains have enclosed chain covers to stop your day clothes getting oil marks on them. Sensible or what?

The Rohloff Speedhub is a revelation compared to an open derailleur gear system. It is a precision engineered hub that works faultlessly every time. I have two bikes with Rohloff hubs, one with a Gates belt the other with a chain inside a Hebie Chainglider cover. You simply cannot apply the same high maintenance regime and fragility of components that you have with a derailleur gear system to a Rohloff hub or Pinion gearbox. Both are far far far more advanced in engineering terms. If you like well engineered things such as for example Porsches then the Rohloff is for you. You can then spend more time cycling than being stuck by the side of the road repairing or replacing derailleurs or having to clean and relube at the end of a wet day.

The Rohloff gearshift is precise and effortless every time. The hub has a great range in gears with not too big steps 13.4% between the gears. With a Gates belt drive on one of my Rohloff bikes it is genuinely a zero maintenance bike in the transmission department. You can ride it in all weathers and on any surfaces without it gumming up like a chain, put it in the garage at the end of day and next morning jump on it and it will still perform the same. The Rohloff with chain with the Hebie Chainglider cover is nearly as good as a belt as the cover keeps the chain pretty clean. This means you get a lot of miles from each chain and no oil or muck on your hands, clothing, the bike frame or wheel or anything else. Also with a Rohloff, Pinion and belt drive there is no changing chains after only 3-5k miles as with a chain on a derailleur bike. Derailleur gear bikes really are Flintstones technology.

The haters who rubbish Rohloff hubs and other gearboxes like Pinion are people who cannot afford them. The drag is so much of a non issue as is the noise in gear 7 compared to the clack clack clack combine harvester noise of a derailleur with little lube on it from a few drops of rain washing it off making changing gear a painful hit and miss experience. The Rohloff hub once run in, is pretty much silent and so efficient and reliable. It does not skip, jump or slip gears. With a Rohloff or Pinion gearbox you can change as many gears as you like when stopped or indeed on the move which is great for loaded riding say climbing a steep gradient stopping and getting started again or even when you have to abruptly come to a stop in an urban environment and need to get going again quickly with no fuss. You can't do this with a derailleur transmission. You just can't.


I have used derailleur bikes for 30 years and been through all the pain and suffering of the high maintenance that they regularly require especially in poor weather conditions. I am so glad that I can now afford to ride a bike with a much much better enclosed gear system. In the end constantly cleaning and lubing derailleur transmissions and replacing chains etc and other components when they wore out after a few thousand miles became a real chore which I came to hate. I couldn't wait to fit my first Rohloff hub once I'd bought it. And then I bought another a few years later.

Over the long run a Rohloff or Pinion gearbox will save you money as you simply do not need to replace the components every few thousand miles as you would have to with a derailleur transmission.

One of my Rohloff hubs has covered about 30k trouble free miles and the other 10k again trouble free miles. I bought them both new. Derailleurs = Flintstones technology. All you need to do with a Rohloff or Pinion gearbox is to keep up with the oil changes and that really is it. More time to actually spend riding. I would never go back to riding a derailleur bike. Simply no.

shelbyfv

ok....

Iride01 

33 posts since 2009. Just a lot of pent up feelings that probably need to be released more often before a gasket is popped.

Troul 

Or could never find a satisfying lube for keep the chain with cassette quiet.

rydabent

It would seem that this a rant from someone that maybe has a very cheap RD, or simply doesnt know how to do the simple adjustments. After adjusting the RD on my bent and trike, they go months with no attention at all, and shift quick, quite, and without any fuss or noise.
Over ninety percent of time when I shift my bike or trike the loudest noise you hear is the click from the twist shift.

GamblerGORD53

NO noise??? LOL hahahahaha
The newest itteration of defaileur bikes sound like little kids' and New Years Eve noisemakers, when coasting. I would ride ZERO miles with such. I hear their grinding shifts 50 feet away. Then there's the clips crunching in when starting up. Gross.

But yah, my Rohloff is noisy too, going up hills. My SA wheels are silent except for the click the shift makes. I HATE noise.