mstateglfr 

Im sure if we turned this into a discussion on what materials failed and caused planes to crash, metals wouldnt look too good.

guy153

Especially new-fangled aluminium. But to my knowledge no plane made of cast iron has ever crashed.

veganbikes

Umm the Bandito is steel with disc brakes and under the limit just FYI.

Teams are still adding weight. Certainly it has gone down a bit with disc brakes but I cannot believe it has completely stopped because the quest for lightweight hasn't ended. Of course nobody wants extra weight but them's the rules, paley.

Tubulars are pretty much always going to be the realm of the pros.Though us mear mortals do have open tubulars and those are perfect as they have that lovely lightweight casing the gives an excellent ride but easy tire replacement like a clincher.

MyTi

I'd use a steel frame for heavy touring for sure. Other than that steel is quite boring to me. To get a good steel bike in your size you'd probably have to go custom to boot which could be just as expensive as a nice carbon bike in your size. So you might as well just get a carbon bike form a good manufacturer backed with a solid warranty on the frame.

homelessjoe

Worldwide steel is the most widely used frame material........there are more steel bikes on the road than carbon aluminum and titanium combined worldwide.........Giant has really been pumping out the aluminum bikes and they are really popular because people believe they are lighter and stronger but............although aluminum is three times lighter than steel ....steel is three times stronger than aluminum......X - X = 0

Branko D

It says "as light as 15.9 lbs" or 7,22kg, well over the 6.8kg limit. That's showroom weight, without pedals, power meter, garmin mount, bottle cages and transponder, which is how bikes are actually weighted for UCI compliance. It's over 7.5kg when you add those.

7, 5kg is the weight of my disc brake aero road bike with 45mm deep wheels which has an, essentially, fairly budget CF frame and mechanical Dura-ace. With a top of the line aero road frame, a couple of possible small but expensive upgrades and running tubulars, I could get it down to maybe 7kg. That's close to where many pro aero road bikes with disc brakes actually end up, and why you'll see some of them opt for the more lightweight model for mountain stages, because they can't get the aero bike down to exactly 6,8kg with the kit which their sponsors provide.
​​​​​

rydabent

Not very "isolated" to the hundreds that died and their families.

It is an example tho of the fact that CF is NOT the wonder material that so many think it is. The main "prejudice" I have against CF is the obscene price, because everyone tends to hype it. And because of that people are being ripped off. Ten to 15 thousand dollars for a bike is absolutely crazy.

If you can please explain the difference between say a 5000 dollar CF frame and a 15000 dollar CF frame is.

CAT7RDR

Twenty years from now, will cyclists be searching for 20+ year old carbon framed bikes on ebay, craigslist, etc...?

Koyote

Show me a $15,000 carbon fiber bike frame, and I'll answer your question.

Honestly, you keep changing your argument. So, which is it: Are cf bike frames too expensive? Is there not enough difference between a $5,000 cf frame and a (nonexistent) $15,000 cf frame? Is it that cf sometimes fails?

Every time someone shoots down one of your arguments, you come back with another. All that you are doing is failing, over and over and over again.

I've not seen any posters telling you NOT to ride a steel recumbent; why do you feel this constant need to tell others that they are fools for making other choices?

rydabent

Do you really think that a $15,000 CF ready to ride bike is totally smart???

mstateglfr 

Your response would hold some weight if people hadnt died due to steel and aluminum frame failures.

I personally wouldnt buy a bike that costs 10-15K, but those who do arent being ripped off. They find value in it that I dont. And that value means they view it as money well spent. This is a classic example of projection.
I get it, its tough to not project as we all know whats best for others, right? But we dont.
Its cool if you dont find value in a $10K bike and you fell like you would be wasting money if you bought it. But dont push that onto others.

Link a frame that costs $15000, please. I am sure something exists- where there is a market there will be product, but I dont know of one.




You move goalposts a lot.
You still have yet to explain why all of the metals used are far superior for cf. Just focus on that for your next response, please.

Koyote

I've not seen any posters telling you NOT to ride a steel recumbent; why do you feel this constant need to tell others that they are fools for making other choices?

Eric F 

In relation to using those specific incidents as a reason why CF is not a good material, they ARE isolated incidents. You also might want to consider that materials failures are often issues with engineering and/or production, not the material itself. Besides - as has been pointed out by others - metal materials in airplanes don't exactly have a clean history, but yet you don't seem to have an issue with metal bikes. There are thousands of examples of CF being an excellent material (durable, strong, light, safe, etc.) in a multitude of applications. Is CF the right material for every application? Of course not. Using one issue to discredit CF material in all applications is being willfully ignorant.

Price is driven by the market. If people are willing to spend $1000 for a widget that costs $1 to make, then so be it. It also seems that you aren't willing or able to look past the simplistic view of just the cost of the raw material. As with a LOT of products, material cost is only a small part of the cost of production. Bicycle frames would be one example of that.

Here's another example - A friend of mine sells a product that he assembles and ships out of his garage. The parts for his product aren't a special material, nor are they complex. Someone with some mediocre fabrication skills could easily replicate a single copy of his product for quite a lot less than the cost he sells his for. Is he ripping people off? Absolutely not. Making a copy of his product doesn't include...
- The tremendous amount of time and wasted materials involved with developing the final design.
- The time and effort that goes into sourcing vendors to provide and manufacture the parts for larger-scale production.
- Printing of the company name on the product.
- Packaging for retail sale.
- Website and marketing costs.
- Profit (it's a business, not a charity)
- A bunch of little **** that it takes to run a business of any size.

If you think CF products are a rip-off because the material is so cheap, I invite you to start producing some CF parts of your own so you can pocket all that easy money for yourself.

As I've said, if you want to ride only metal bikes with metal components, have at it. Do what makes you happy...but try not to let the thought of metal airplane failures spoil your ride. Your arguments against CF are only serving to justify your own prejudice.

The difference between a $5k frame and a $15k frame?....Mostly marketing, probably. EDIT: Low-production specialty bikes could justifiably hit that number (see below).

Eric F 

Why would it not be? What are the factors you see that should prevent one from riding a CF bicycle?

Eric F 

2 years from now, I will have a 20-year-old carbon-framed bike. Except for the diminished power of the motor, it performs exactly as it did when it was new.

CAT7RDR

Good to know. I would be less inclined unless I knew the owner(s) and the bike's Hx. Steel framed bikes, I would have less of a concern.

DangerousDanR

Here is a link to a frame that is going to set you back at least a cool 15,500 GBP, so about $21,500 US.
https://www.hopetech.com/news/hbt-70...-and-counting/


The picture above is from that web site, and there are plenty more, Here is the link to actually buy one, or maybe just get in the queue, or maybe be told that since you are not a world class track racer you can sod off.

https://www.hopetech.com/news/hbt/

Mind you that 15,500 pounds is for the frame only. Those wheels are another 4,500 GBP

Marketing hype? I don't think so. This is what very low production niche products cost. But I'll wager that if the BB is not aligned they crush the frame and start over.

Also, can anyone find me a bike like that in steel? Yeah, maybe not. Mind you I own several steel bicycles, and they are a hoot to ride. My favorite bike is my Ritchey Tandem, and it is certainly steel. But when I bought a fat tire bike I went with carbon because it gave me the best bike for the money.

bOsscO

20 years from now? Hell, there's a current thread on BF for 25-30 year old carbon framed bikes; https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ting-bike.html
Based on the responses the early CF frames are doing just fine.

SeanMc

This looks similar to my Steel AWOL (2013, i think?) which I freaking LOVE!!!

Eric F 

I recently purchased a 2-year-old CF bike based on online pics and a couple of messages with the seller. I have been completely satisfied with it. Unfortunately, it has the same motor issues as my 18-year-old CF bike.

Wileyone 

My God that bike is ugly. Like the majority of plastic bikes.

JohnDThompson 

Just when you thought bikes couldn't get any uglier…

rydabent

Quite frankly that bike reminds me of when I was a kid on the farm. Look where that seat is and where the handle bars are. It reminds me of an old hen with her butt in the air and her head down picking corn out of a cow pie.

cbrstar

Sadly he hurt himself but
This video really opened my eyes to what CF can do. As a kid who rode BMX I remember taking my Sisters Sears10 speed out and jumping it off a picnic table. The wheels tacoed, and the forks and handlebars bent. In fact I don't think there was a single piece of that bike that wasn't bent after. Later on I actually got into road cycling and one of my friends had a brand new Bianchi, with these stupidly expensive wheels that only had a few spokes in them. Just going off a curb or hitting train tracks and they would be bent.

I would like to get a CF bike but honestly two things keep stopping me.

1) Difficult telling if it's cracked. It's surprising but most sellers will object with you tapping it with a coin

2) Can't tell if it's FAKE. It's not like the good old days where jerks would swap a decal but knowing what traits to look for will save you heart ache. These fakes look identical!!! They just have low amounts of carbon in them etc. I'm sure there is ways to tell but I think it's way more difficult. I also feel like most of the CF breaking you hear about are fake bikes not made properly.

I think there is also a lot of diminishing value in CF. I watched a GCN video where they raced old vs new. And the old $100 1980's special was only something like 20 sec slower. Big deal in a race I agree, but for a guy like me that's meaningless. I could spend $10,000 on amazing CF but I'd probably be a few mins slower then a professional racer on a dutch city bike.

guy153

When Trek first started making CF monocoques around the year 2000 they probably went to an aircraft parts manufacturer in the USA and it cost a lot.

People got used to paying a lot for a CF bike and the huge cost savings of mass-producing them in China (not always to the highest standards) have not been passed onto the consumer.

But it's a free market and you can buy the same stuff (or what might be the same, caveat emptor) on Ali Express minus the trekgiantcannondalespecialized stickers for a small fraction of the cost. Or for probably only slightly more from YouTube sugar evangelist and life coach Durianrider.
​​​​​
​​