Leo: The 1960s Bottecchia...randonneur?
#101
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
The fenders I ordered from France didn't work out, but nlerner solved that problem.
Leo is back, baby!
It's just a mockup for now; have to clean up some of the edges and fit them to the frame, not just suspend them by the stays. Still, this is the look I wanted from the start.
Definitely reinvigorated on this one. Nothing like French Fender Friday (yes, I know it's a Thursday, but who's counting?)
-Kurt
Leo is back, baby!
It's just a mockup for now; have to clean up some of the edges and fit them to the frame, not just suspend them by the stays. Still, this is the look I wanted from the start.
Definitely reinvigorated on this one. Nothing like French Fender Friday (yes, I know it's a Thursday, but who's counting?)
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 11-10-22 at 07:20 PM.
#102
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
Much to my surprise, the fenders that were lost by LaPoste for a month managed to show up yesterday. (And, of course, it looks as if it'll take a month for eBay to figure out how to re-bill this, seeing as they're all too eager to refund on any seller's behalf, but that's another story).
Polishing them up:
Before:
After:
They can probably use a more abrasive cleanup - something that gets the pits out first. But this will do for now.
Strange thing though - I test-fitted the front fender to the frame last evening and came to the conclusion that they don't look right on this build; rather, the clean look of the Honjos are perfectly suited to the stem, bar, hubs, and color of the frame. I guess this means I need to dig up a proper 650B frame from BITD for another build sometime
-Kurt
Polishing them up:
Before:
After:
They can probably use a more abrasive cleanup - something that gets the pits out first. But this will do for now.
Strange thing though - I test-fitted the front fender to the frame last evening and came to the conclusion that they don't look right on this build; rather, the clean look of the Honjos are perfectly suited to the stem, bar, hubs, and color of the frame. I guess this means I need to dig up a proper 650B frame from BITD for another build sometime
-Kurt
#104
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 726
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
Liked 347 Times
in
205 Posts
#105
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
I'd assume the electrical tapes is uglification.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 04-08-23 at 07:37 AM.
Likes For cudak888:
#106
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,938
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2486 Post(s)
Liked 3,220 Times
in
2,027 Posts
That Rossin on the first page was beautiful.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh International, 1998 Corratec Ap & Dun, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh International, 1998 Corratec Ap & Dun, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone
#107
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
It's a fake. Doesn't even look like a Rossin, but it had one striking color on it. Spent years trying to figure out what it was, but the only thing that really came of it was the possibility of it being from a medium-sized Belgian builder.
More here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ging-dddd.html
-Kurt
More here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ging-dddd.html
-Kurt
#108
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,654
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1301 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4690 Post(s)
Liked 5,838 Times
in
2,297 Posts
Man, just looking at those lugs make me want to go spend an obscene amount of time and hand carve a set just like them!
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Likes For gugie:
#109
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
If time is a concern, you could probably have a set 3D printed that will be more than passable - probably nicer than these too; they're pretty thick. I believe some of the gas pipe Bottecchias in the 1970's inherited these.
-Kurt
#110
The Huffmeister
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,783
Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1249 Post(s)
Liked 3,607 Times
in
1,436 Posts
Keep this one going...can't wait to see the final product.
#111
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
#112
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
I haven't tinkered much with Leo or many of the other projects - I've been too busy distracting myself with other crap - but in the process of building new wall display supports for it, I finally lucked across a few Italian sites that unraveled the entire mystery of the brand and correlate @MauriceMoss's discovery of the 1955 brand patent:
An article written by Gastone Nencini's daughter: https://gastonenencini.blogspot.com/...rcata-leo.html
Another article about Leo-Chlorodont: https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/62887
Long story short, Leo-Chlorodont was a team sponsored by the company producing (or distributing?) German Chlorodont toothpaste in Italy. The second article speaks of a fanciful story relaying how the bikes became branded "Leo:" Their sponsor had showed up to a race, asking where their branding was on the team's unmarked white frames. The story suggests the team mechanic quickly cut out logos of the parent company, Leo-Werke, and stuck them on the downtube.
However, if the patent for the brand was applied for on the 12th of January in 1955, it would suggest they knew exactly what they were doing from the start, given that the team ran from 1955 to 1958. Concocted story for publicity? Perhaps.
Some more photos of Nencini's Leo are here on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/515682...7631612643254/. The headbadge on it is clearly visible in this photo (from his daughter's article - please see the link above). It's a match.
As for this Leo - the other question is whether the badge is original to the bike. The lugs on Nencini's Leo are clearly different, but the nozzle cut is clearly familial, so the source of the lugs was likely the same; it's not out of the question that the team, one year, was supplied with bikes that share their appearance with the blue thing I have. Given the long top tube and seat tube, and the typical frame sizing of the era, whoever rode this was probably pretty tall.
There's a directory of the Leo riders from '55-58 here, so perhaps some Google-fu might bring up more photos: Accès équipes chlorodont
P.S.: I can't leave this thread without at least sharing a picture of Leo on its new wall hangers:
-Kurt
An article written by Gastone Nencini's daughter: https://gastonenencini.blogspot.com/...rcata-leo.html
Another article about Leo-Chlorodont: https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/62887
Long story short, Leo-Chlorodont was a team sponsored by the company producing (or distributing?) German Chlorodont toothpaste in Italy. The second article speaks of a fanciful story relaying how the bikes became branded "Leo:" Their sponsor had showed up to a race, asking where their branding was on the team's unmarked white frames. The story suggests the team mechanic quickly cut out logos of the parent company, Leo-Werke, and stuck them on the downtube.
However, if the patent for the brand was applied for on the 12th of January in 1955, it would suggest they knew exactly what they were doing from the start, given that the team ran from 1955 to 1958. Concocted story for publicity? Perhaps.
Some more photos of Nencini's Leo are here on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/515682...7631612643254/. The headbadge on it is clearly visible in this photo (from his daughter's article - please see the link above). It's a match.
As for this Leo - the other question is whether the badge is original to the bike. The lugs on Nencini's Leo are clearly different, but the nozzle cut is clearly familial, so the source of the lugs was likely the same; it's not out of the question that the team, one year, was supplied with bikes that share their appearance with the blue thing I have. Given the long top tube and seat tube, and the typical frame sizing of the era, whoever rode this was probably pretty tall.
There's a directory of the Leo riders from '55-58 here, so perhaps some Google-fu might bring up more photos: Accès équipes chlorodont
P.S.: I can't leave this thread without at least sharing a picture of Leo on its new wall hangers:
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 01-13-24 at 10:15 AM.
Likes For cudak888:
#113
The Huffmeister
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Le Grande HQ
Posts: 2,783
Bikes: '79 Trek 938, '86 Jim Merz Allez SE, '90 Miyata 1000, '68 PX-10, '80 PXN-10, '73 Super Course, '87 Guerciotti, '83 Trek 600, '80 Huffy Le Grande
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1249 Post(s)
Liked 3,607 Times
in
1,436 Posts
So glad to see you posting again. I'll keep an eye out at the co-op just in case.
__________________
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!
There were 135 Confentes, but only one...Huffente!
Likes For AdventureManCO:
#114
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
It’s the eve of a protected bike lane pop-up event, so I should be resting, but I’m not…
…because I finally bit the bullet on the crankset. It arrived a few days ago (which should give you an inclination that free time has NOT been an available luxury) and so I have a 45t and a 50t to work with.
Into the stand. Only the downtube is mitered to the bottom bracket. Built for function, not for Instagram.
The Italian bottom bracket I’d been saving for this is a 115mm BB-6400 off the Romani frameset from ages ago - at least, I think it was the Romani. Might have been something else.
While the drive side cup is fine (minus the plastic dust cap), the NDS is pretty rough. Good enough for a test fit.
Installed:
…and crank on.
One problem - this really needs a 117 at least. Maybe 118 to be perfectly safe.
If anyone has these bits - spindle and left Italian BB cup - I’m definitely listening.
Fit failures aside, the look is everything I had hoped for. I still think it could really use the 50T ring just from a visual standpoint. This frame is big and the long top tube geometry benefits from the most visually commanding chainring possible. I'll calculate the gear inches just to check.
-Kurt
…because I finally bit the bullet on the crankset. It arrived a few days ago (which should give you an inclination that free time has NOT been an available luxury) and so I have a 45t and a 50t to work with.
Into the stand. Only the downtube is mitered to the bottom bracket. Built for function, not for Instagram.
The Italian bottom bracket I’d been saving for this is a 115mm BB-6400 off the Romani frameset from ages ago - at least, I think it was the Romani. Might have been something else.
While the drive side cup is fine (minus the plastic dust cap), the NDS is pretty rough. Good enough for a test fit.
Installed:
…and crank on.
One problem - this really needs a 117 at least. Maybe 118 to be perfectly safe.
If anyone has these bits - spindle and left Italian BB cup - I’m definitely listening.
Fit failures aside, the look is everything I had hoped for. I still think it could really use the 50T ring just from a visual standpoint. This frame is big and the long top tube geometry benefits from the most visually commanding chainring possible. I'll calculate the gear inches just to check.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 04-14-24 at 09:11 PM.
Likes For cudak888:
Likes For Piff:
#116
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
-Kurt
#117
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
Not that anyone asked, by the way, but the event went really well. Couldn't bring a C&V bike out to it as I really needed the electric assist - I must have made 12 trips between our start and end point, including carting kids backpacks. Apparently, most of the kids hadn't strapped them tight enough and they were sagging into the rear wheels.
Hey, at least there's a very French-looking mudflap on my ride for the day
Back to the regularly-scheduled Leo build (as soon as a BB shows up).
-Kurt
Hey, at least there's a very French-looking mudflap on my ride for the day
Back to the regularly-scheduled Leo build (as soon as a BB shows up).
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 04-22-24 at 07:51 PM.
#118
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,521
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Liked 4,415 Times
in
2,097 Posts
Thanks to our forum's one and only Mad Honkster, I received a beautiful, brand-new 119mm Shimano BB in the mail today:
Bike jewelry, with just the right taper to match.
Out with the old...
I noticed the non-drive side has witness marks from a BB cup long ago removed via the slice-and-dice method:
New bits installed. It spins so very, very nicely.
I went with the big daddy - the 50t chainring. It just looks right.
To be honest, I'm still concerned about clearance. It looks worse in the photo than it appears; there's 3mm of clearance at the narrowest spot.
This is with the crank fully seated, of course. I don't know how much chainstay flex this frame has. In the worst of cases, I'll shim the drive side BB and use the narrower NDS lockring from the other BB set.
I debated on whether a garish chain would be over the top for the build. Then I said "what the hell" and put it on anyway.
The dropout adjuster springs had to be replaced with shorter ones to allow the axle to come back far enough. A bit concerning is the fact that there's some significant drag in the 7-speed Shimano hub. I've only had experience with the 8-speeds, so I am a bit concerned - particularly as the donor bike had the tacoed rear wheel (with no external damage to the hub).
Yes, the fender is not fitted to the frame yet; this bike is still very much a mock-up and barely functional.
Mock up or not, it looks fabulous. Exactly what I'd hoped.
Thanks again to the always-generous @Mad Honk for helping to get the build a massive step further forward.
Now it's time to manhandle those fenders into this thing permanently.
-Kurt
Bike jewelry, with just the right taper to match.
Out with the old...
I noticed the non-drive side has witness marks from a BB cup long ago removed via the slice-and-dice method:
New bits installed. It spins so very, very nicely.
I went with the big daddy - the 50t chainring. It just looks right.
To be honest, I'm still concerned about clearance. It looks worse in the photo than it appears; there's 3mm of clearance at the narrowest spot.
This is with the crank fully seated, of course. I don't know how much chainstay flex this frame has. In the worst of cases, I'll shim the drive side BB and use the narrower NDS lockring from the other BB set.
I debated on whether a garish chain would be over the top for the build. Then I said "what the hell" and put it on anyway.
The dropout adjuster springs had to be replaced with shorter ones to allow the axle to come back far enough. A bit concerning is the fact that there's some significant drag in the 7-speed Shimano hub. I've only had experience with the 8-speeds, so I am a bit concerned - particularly as the donor bike had the tacoed rear wheel (with no external damage to the hub).
Yes, the fender is not fitted to the frame yet; this bike is still very much a mock-up and barely functional.
Mock up or not, it looks fabulous. Exactly what I'd hoped.
Thanks again to the always-generous @Mad Honk for helping to get the build a massive step further forward.
Now it's time to manhandle those fenders into this thing permanently.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 04-23-24 at 05:26 AM.
Likes For cudak888: