grinningfool

I am in the process of rebulding a Miyata 210 that I picked up cheap at a yard salel. It fits me great, but it was in pretty rough shape. The frame is currently at a local body shop getting a paint job.
The wheels are 27", and the rear wheel that was on the bike is a 40 spoke tandem wheel. It has some bent spokes, so I'm looking for advice from the great minds on this forum. Should I rebuild the 40 spoke wheel, or look around for a 36 spoke wheel ? I don't think upgrading to 700's is an option, due to the cantilever brakes.
Obviously a 40 spoke wheel can carry a heavier load, but do I really need such a heavy duty wheel for weekend tours. I'm not a clyde, and I won't be carrying 80 pounds of gear on extended tours for months on end.
I'd be grateful for your opinions.

Cyclebum

A well built 32 spoke wheel, properly tensioned and stress relieved, is quit sufficient for the type of touring that 90% of us do. 36 spokes is the added insurance we need for confidence. 40 maybe for hauling a full load of gear down the Continental Divide on skinny tires. But then nobody rides the CDT on skinny tires, do they?

Since you've got the wheel, no need to chunk it unless the extra weight is a major worry for you. Few dollars, some time, and you're good to go.

semperfi1970

I would rebuild the 40 hole. I run 48 hole tandem wheels on my touring bike. For the little weight added I have the piece of mind and security. People tend to think that a lighter wheels are better wheels, see what sheldon has to say on this topic. Good luck with the Miyata, cool bike, post some pics when done.

Sixty Fiver

I'm a very light guy and run a 32 spoke rear wheel on my commutourer which also serves as a tow vehicle for a 6 foot trailer.

I build my own wheels and build wheels for other folks (usually touring wheels) and have had no concerns with my wheels being up to the tasks I set them to.

prathmann

You could probably do fine with 36 spokes or even 32. OTOH, how much of a burden will it be to carry an extra 4 or even 8 extra spokes around in the wheel? Unless you're racing I doubt that amount of added weight will ever make a difference in your enjoyment of a trip. If the other wheel components are in decent shape and you're not planning to change to 700c then I'd advise rebuilding the wheel as is with the 40 spokes.

Iowegian

How are the hubs and rims? If you need new wheels there is no reason to go with 40 spokes but if the rims and hubs are good there is no reason not to just rebuild the old wheel.

Weasel9

40 is probably more than you need, but there's little disadvantage in an over-built rear wheel. If you ever decide to load up your bike more than normal, you'll save yourself worrying about your wheel. I tour on a 36 rear, and I like it perfectly. I would ride a 40 if I had it, touring is rarely a place to shave grams.

There's not much advantage in getting a whole new wheel just to lose some spokes.

The lack of spokes in lesser-spoked wheels requires the rim to be slightly stronger, usually increasing the weight. The extra stress on each spoke also can result in the wheel needing to be trued more often, or the rim wearing out sooner.

DT Swiss states that a 264 DT Comp spoke is about 6 grams. A standard brass nipple is 1. If you lose 4 spokes by getting a new wheel, you're saving about 28 grams. That's about the weight of an adolescent Crested Gecko.

You could probably save more weight taking the change out of your pockets.

If you fix up that 40 so it's nice and true, it should last a while and suit the bike perfectly.

TheBrick

Before you dismisses the possibility of swapping to 700 borrow a wheel and see if the brake will have the adjustment it may work.

eurotrash666

last set of wheels i had built were 36 spokes on strong velocity rims. after shaking down my previous 32-spoke set on the cobblestones of europe for a couple years, i got a little tired of dealing with roadside re-tensioning when traveling loaded. i run mechanical discs and i am not light, those are definitely factors. the difference to me with the new set was night and day- the 36-spoke wheels are so solid. if you are doing a touring-specific build, i would certainly go with a higher spoke count for reliability. the cost difference on a handbuilt set is negligible.

jbpence

++

i weigh 195, run 36 spoke salsa delgado cross rims on my tourer. They stayed true carrying 60 pounds on the cobblestone roads and of Yunnan Province China and yak trails in the southern Himalaya. I think 40 is overkill, but if that rim is in good shape, build it.

for a guy my size, I think 32 spokes would make me nervous. I don't like being nervous, especially during loaded higher speed (say 35 mph) descents on roads with unknown hazards.

Steve.D

I'm guessing your Miyata was built in the late 70's to mid 80's. Back then, rims were not nearly as strong as the high profile rims available today and 36 minimum or 40 spokes for heavy duty was standard for touring bikes.

If your hubs are still in good shape, your rims are not bent, you're not a clyde, and you won't be hauling much, then re-spoke them and you'll be good to go. Otherwise, consider upgrading to a modern wheelset.

LeeG

If you have a budget and aren't building your own wheels simply buying a cheap 27" wheel replacement would be the cheapest way to go IF the rim is whacked. I wonder if 40hole 27 inch rims exist anymore. If the rim isn't whacked and it's just bent spokes I'd start with buying a full set of replacement spokes and replace the bent ones IF you can adjust the other spokes and they aren't corroded at the nipples, if they are all corroded and nonadjustable I'd just rebuild the wheel.

imi

^^^ superb!

Ashen

Well yeah, but it's ROTATING weight....

john bono

African or European Gecko?

AnnaMossity

In my opinion going light on wheels is asinine. Nothing sucks more than having to call off a trip or wait around a town for days to get a part in just because you tried to save some weight on wheels (especially a measly few grams). How much of a speed advantage do you have when you're on the side of the road looking at busted up lightweight wheels?

I run a 40 hole rear wheel with straight gauge 2mm spokes on 700c Velocity Dyad rims The hub is also Velocity. I rode 3600 kms on it heavily loaded (about 300lbs incl. rider and gear) mostly on roads but some trails and the only thing that happened was a split rim after I rode over a curb fully loaded at a 90degree angle and even THAT took about 1000 kms to go from minor to unrideable.

My vote is for you building the 40 spoke, it's probably gonna be cheaper to boot than getting a 36 spoke.

grinningfool

Thank's to all of you for your advice. I am going to keep the wheel, and replace the bent spokes, and re-true it. It's not a super lightweight bike, though it is an 85 with triple butted tubes, but I'm really not worried about a few grams of weight on the wheel. And it will be a nice feeling knowing I've got a beefy wheel there when the going gets rough.
I'm just getting started on the rebuild, though I have some of the parts already. I got a Sugino crankset from Velo Orange, and I found a set of 6 speed indexed bar end Shimano shifters on ebay. I do need to get a new headset, and a new freewheel. Haven't decided on tires yet.
When I get it finished, I'll post photos.

Weasel9

It's native to New Caledonia, in the South Pacific, I believe.

I'm glad you're going to rebuild the wheel. Those 40 spokers can be amazingly resilient, although I agree with SteveD, newer rims have less need for so many spokes. I'm trying to decide between 36 or 40 right now for my new touring wheelset, and am leaning towards 36 just because my current ones are holding up so well.

Although not quite as resilient as the 12 inch 36-spoke trailer wheel my boss built up today.

TheBrick

I think he was doing a Monty python reference.