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Do you put patched tubes back in your saddlebag?

Old 01-20-21, 04:17 AM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
So where did you come up with this ďonly one flat a weekĒ rule? Iíve had 2 flats in 10 minutes less than 100 yards apart. And, no, the flats werenít related.
I donít agree with people who say that flats occur in one location but there is nothing that says you canít have more than one flat every other day. Iíve had more than 65 flats (I stopped counting at 65) in a single day...in a 16 mile ride. I ran out of tubes, patches and ended up carrying the bike for the last mile. Flats are a completely random event for which you canít plan. Saying that they fit some kind of schedule is just silly.
Why do you multi-quote ***** all the time? I don't come around telling you how to build a wheel, so take your nose out of my area.

When I rode the open Downs the chances of getting a puncture were minimal, other than the random rusty nail type event. When I descended into a valley it would generally be between hedges, often blackthorn. In autumn and winter this was not much of a problem, but once they started to cut the hedges many of the thorns ended up scattered on the tarmac, so the chances of a puncture rose. While one cannot predict exactly where a puncture will occur, one can calculate the risk - higher for post-cut hedged roads, lower for unhedged plateau roads. So you can map out the areas of high and low risk, which is nothing different to what businesses do every day, nothing different to the algorithms that place the adverts down the right hand side of this page - which for me this week are all scantily clad ladies advertising lingerie because of a job I had this week editing lingerie shop content online.

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Old 01-20-21, 09:09 AM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by Geepig View Post
Why do you multi-quote ***** all the time? I don't come around telling you how to build a wheel, so take your nose out of my area.
Not sure where I have my nose that is in your area.

As for multiple quotes, I use them so that I make it easier for the reader to follow my point.

When I rode the open Downs the chances of getting a puncture were minimal, other than the random rusty nail type event. When I descended into a valley it would generally be between hedges, often blackthorn. In autumn and winter this was not much of a problem, but once they started to cut the hedges many of the thorns ended up scattered on the tarmac, so the chances of a puncture rose. While one cannot predict exactly where a puncture will occur, one can calculate the risk - higher for post-cut hedged roads, lower for unhedged plateau roads. So you can map out the areas of high and low risk, which is nothing different to what businesses do every day, nothing different to the algorithms that place the adverts down the right hand side of this page - which for me this week are all scantily clad ladies advertising lingerie because of a job I had this week editing lingerie shop content online.
Iím not sure what this has to do with lingerie but arenít you saying flats are random as I said above? While I agree that there are some places where picking up a thorn (for me, it Tribulus terrestris), trying to predict exactly where that might happen is nearly impossible. Can you pinpoint places where you might pick up thorns after they are trimmed or do the thorns get scattered around by lots of human activity? Are thorns picked up and spread by cars? Do they fall off trucks? Are you sure they are all gone shortly after the hedges are trimmed or do you find occasionally find one out of season?

Our not being able to do something is not the same as no one being able to do it.
I suppose you could collect data and product a model to predict where objects that cause flats would be more probable from one place to another. The problem is the amount of data needed to do a even marginally useful model would be massive. Data collection take money and the more data needed, the more money that is needed. The kind of money that would be needed for a flat probability model would be astronomical and, in the end, the model would probably be mostly useless anyway. There are lots of other projects that are far more deserving.
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Old 01-20-21, 12:13 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
I have different bikes that I ride on different occasions. Sometimes I do not use a bike for 2 years, sometimes locally and sometimes because it is away from my central base. When I pump the tires again after 2 years, nothing blows up and then nothing after another 2 years. I have racks of tires and boxes of tubes of different age. Yes, the rubber ages, but not on the scale of a year, but a decade and that depends on details, as was discussed. Various devices in everyday life have rubber rollers inside and belts and you do not run all the time changing them. Yes, eventually they will die but the time scale tends to be such that at the everyday level you can forget that they are there. For vintage bikes, aging rubber and plastic can become of a concern.
Maybe I am wrong? Reading up I was kind of surprised to read cold air preserves tires because it slows dry rot. And I was also surprised to read that rubber actually expands in cold temperatures. I'm just going off my own observations where I have stored tires and bikes in my shed only to find hairline cracks in the sidewalls of the tire next spring. Where as the ones I've kept in my house are still in great shape. The other thing I have encountered is my GF put some tires in the furnace room, and a year or two later when I wanted to use them for a classic build they were ROCK hard!! I attributed it to heat from the furnace but there must be a different explanation.
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Old 01-20-21, 01:05 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
When a patch works its way loose at any time that means you prepared the tube wrong, I've never had either a glue on or a glueless patch eventually work loose...well, as long as the glueless patch was a Park, I used a few other brands, even the well known Lezyne, those don't stick for more than a few hours, but the Park brand will stick for the life of the tube.
I can confirm the Lezyne patches don't last very long. I've used Park in the past but had developed couple of very slow leaks a month or two ago and had some Lezyne patches I thought I'd try since my tube of glue had dried up. Both leaks were discovered at home so the area was meticulously prepared before applying the patches. Within a week or two I came out one morning to find I had a flat. Pulling the tube and putting it in a sink of water I found the Lezyne patch leaking badly. Luckily I was able to peal the patch off and apply a regular glue patch which worked fine. I pulled the other tube I'd patched with the Lezyne, pealed off that patch and repatched it with a glue patch. I haven't had this issue with Park but very limited experience. Got rid of the Lezyne patches in my road patch kit and will stick with Park for emergency road repairs if I get a second flat after using my spare tube. At home I prefer glue patches.

And when I do have to use my spare tube on the road I always pull it out when I get home, patch the tube that had the puncture, put it back in the wheel and put the unpatched tube back in my road repair kit.
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Old 01-20-21, 01:53 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
Maybe I am wrong? Reading up I was kind of surprised to read cold air preserves tires because it slows dry rot. And I was also surprised to read that rubber actually expands in cold temperatures. I'm just going off my own observations where I have stored tires and bikes in my shed only to find hairline cracks in the sidewalls of the tire next spring. Where as the ones I've kept in my house are still in great shape. The other thing I have encountered is my GF put some tires in the furnace room, and a year or two later when I wanted to use them for a classic build they were ROCK hard!! I attributed it to heat from the furnace but there must be a different explanation.
Cold temperatures almost always slow chemical reactions. Any degradation is a chemical reaction that may be the result of UV or ozone. Heat also causes the rubber to further crosslink, which causes the rubber to stiffen. Some crosslinking is good but too much is bad.

Iím not sure what you mean by the rubber expands in cold weather. I think you are referring to the rubber expanding when inflated cold but it will be a little stiffer. Itís not harmed by putting air in it, however.

Cracks in rubber can be caused by a number of different conditions. They shouldnít crack when stored in the cold outside in single winter. If they happen to be exposed to light or if there is something electrical running in the building, that can cause rubber embrittlement. The tires that hardened in a furnace room is due to the ozone that is created by the electrical motor running. Something as simple as putting the tires and tubes in a plastic bag can go a long ways toward keeping the ozone away from the rubber and they will last longer.
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Old 01-20-21, 08:09 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by August West View Post
I can confirm the Lezyne patches don't last very long. I've used Park in the past but had developed couple of very slow leaks a month or two ago and had some Lezyne patches I thought I'd try since my tube of glue had dried up. Both leaks were discovered at home so the area was meticulously prepared before applying the patches. Within a week or two I came out one morning to find I had a flat. Pulling the tube and putting it in a sink of water I found the Lezyne patch leaking badly. Luckily I was able to peal the patch off and apply a regular glue patch which worked fine. I pulled the other tube I'd patched with the Lezyne, pealed off that patch and repatched it with a glue patch. I haven't had this issue with Park but very limited experience. Got rid of the Lezyne patches in my road patch kit and will stick with Park for emergency road repairs if I get a second flat after using my spare tube. At home I prefer glue patches.

And when I do have to use my spare tube on the road I always pull it out when I get home, patch the tube that had the puncture, put it back in the wheel and put the unpatched tube back in my road repair kit.
I don't know why you are not having success with glueless patches, a lot don't so you're not alone, but quite a few do have success. I prepare a tube to accept a glueless patch the same way I prepare a tube for a glue-on patch, nothing is different. What I do is when I squeeze the patch onto the tube I do it with all my strength between my index finger and thumb for 60 seconds, then I do the corners, then I look at the patch, if I see any hazy areas on the patch, which are usually the sides or corners, I repress those till the hazy look is gone, and that's it. I know that the glueless patch instructions say 30 seconds of squeezing is all you need but I do it for 60 seconds that seems to work better I think. I also don't clean the tube with alcohol, I tried that and for some reason, the patches won't stick long, not sure why that is.

Your last paragraph is why I fix on the side of the road because I don't want to go home and do the work all over again as you do, and others! I have more important things to do with my time, and time is money.
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Old 01-20-21, 10:12 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
I don't know why you are not having success with glueless patches,
Because the Lezyne patches suck. They stick for while but then leak eventually. You were the one who mentioned it first and I was agreeing with your post. Park are fine, I've never had a problem with them.
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Old 01-21-21, 08:36 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by August West View Post
Because the Lezyne patches suck. They stick for while but then leak eventually. You were the one who mentioned it first and I was agreeing with your post. Park are fine, I've never had a problem with them.
Got ya. I tried Lezyne myself and they did indeed suck as do all others out there besides the Park. I haven't been able to confirm this but I think Topeak Flypaper glueless patches are the Park patches with the Topeak trademark emblem printed on the patch itself, otherwise, they look exactly alike.
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Old 01-21-21, 11:00 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Got ya. I tried Lezyne myself and they did indeed suck as do all others out there besides the Park. I haven't been able to confirm this but I think Topeak Flypaper glueless patches are the Park patches with the Topeak trademark emblem printed on the patch itself, otherwise, they look exactly alike.
I wonder if Park patches are the Rema of glueless. In other words, there is an adhesive used on them that isnít used on others. Park does say that they worked with 3M on the adhesive. If anyone knows contact adhesives, itís 3M.
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Old 01-22-21, 12:11 AM
  #185  
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Tirichloroethylene in the Rema fluid is a rubber solvent and softens the tube to make it integrate with the glue and patch. You cannot arrive at a similar effect running dry.
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Old 01-22-21, 08:54 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I wonder if Park patches are the Rema of glueless. In other words, there is an adhesive used on them that isnít used on others. Park does say that they worked with 3M on the adhesive. If anyone knows contact adhesives, itís 3M.
I'm not so sure Park worked with 3M, I could be wrong, but here's what I remember. When I first started using glueless patches they said 3M on the box, I used those for maybe 10 years, then 3M stopped selling them and I was told that 3M didn't want to be in the bike business and sold the rights to Park.

If that is true what I said, then is Park making the patches for Topeak under the Park license?

By the way, Lezyne patches were among the worse glueless patches I've ever used, along with Skab which I think they sold the name rights to Slime some years back. Here's the interesting thing as to why I brought that up, I heard that Gorilla Glue company made a tough black tape, so I bought some and cut a square piece and applied it to a tube that had a hole, that darn Gorilla black tape held up just as long as the crappy glueless patches from Skab and Lezyne did for a lot less money, so the Gorilla black tape will get you home, but that's about it.
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Old 01-22-21, 09:30 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
I'm not so sure Park worked with 3M, I could be wrong, but here's what I remember. When I first started using glueless patches they said 3M on the box, I used those for maybe 10 years, then 3M stopped selling them and I was told that 3M didn't want to be in the bike business and sold the rights to Park.
Park says they worked with 3M on their GP-2 web page. 3M tends develop something and then off-load the technologies to others for marketing. 3M makes the patches for Park and just lets them market it. Canít say if Park is farming them out to others. Perhaps Topeak is also working with 3M.


By the way, Lezyne patches were among the worse glueless patches I've ever used, along with Skab which I think they sold the name rights to Slime some years back. Here's the interesting thing as to why I brought that up, I heard that Gorilla Glue company made a tough black tape, so I bought some and cut a square piece and applied it to a tube that had a hole, that darn Gorilla black tape held up just as long as the crappy glueless patches from Skab and Lezyne did for a lot less money, so the Gorilla black tape will get you home, but that's about it.
Thus my previous comments about glueless patches. There may be some good ones out there but the early ones were pretty bad. But there are a whole lot of bad glue based patch kits out there too.

Gorilla Tape might work but Itís not going to be very permanent and will probably ruin the tube for a cold vulcanizing patch.
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Old 01-24-21, 08:06 PM
  #188  
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I replaced my spoke wheels with magnesium alloy wheels from China I got on ebay. That was more than two years ago and the causes of so many of my flat tires was pin-hole leaks from the spoke nuts even though I had rubber gaskets covering them. Since I changed to wheels with smooth interiors I have not had a flat tire even after putting more miles on my bike than I used to. This has been more than a luxury to have freedom from flat tires upsetting the apple cart in my life when I needed to get to appointments.
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Old 01-24-21, 08:28 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by drbarney1 View Post
...causes of so many of my flat tires was pin-hole leaks from the spoke nuts even though I had rubber gaskets covering them.
I wonder... Could sanding and polishing the heads of the spoke nuts have remedied this problem? Could you have sanded and polished them on the wheel?
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Old 01-25-21, 02:17 AM
  #190  
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That might have worked but I was unwilling to trust it because replacing the wheels guaranteed an end to this problem. I also like the look and style of mag wheels which I had painted with premium urethane paint the lime green color of the Chevrolet Spark. The seller claims they weigh less than most spoke wheels and the are probably stronger, but I am not a competitive rider so even if they weigh a pound or two more, I would never notice.
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Old 01-25-21, 02:29 AM
  #191  
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I don't trust spoke nuts enough to try it.

Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
I wonder... Could sanding and polishing the heads of the spoke nuts have remedied this problem? Could you have sanded and polished them on the wheel?
There is no guarantee it would have worked but the replacement wheels were a 100% way to eliminate the problem. I also like the style of the mag wheels better than spokes. The ebay seller claims they are lighter than steel spoke wheels but even if they are not, a pound or two difference is inconsequential because I use my bike for transportation. I do not compete in bike races. While I know of no destructive strength tests to make a comparison, I think the claim mag wheels are stronger is credible. Either way, like spoke wheels they are more than strong enough. Another virtue is I never have to suffer the tedium it inflicts to true up the spokes,
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