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V brakes or Cantilevers?

Old 12-05-11, 08:17 AM
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V brakes or Cantilevers?

I'm building up a winter bike. To keep costs down and to avoid temperamental systems, I'm using rim brakes. Riding in Chicago is very flat, so issues like wheel rim wear are not a factor here. I also will not be riding in deeper snow or slushy conditions; I’m a car light cyclist.

I’ll be using 700x35 studded tires and Planet Bike 45mm fenders, I don’t need massive brake clearance.

I’ve read good reviews on two very different braking systems.

The best short-pull brake system includes Tektro CR-720 cantilever brakes, Kool-Stop Salmon brake pads and short pull brake levers from Shimano or Tektro.

The best long-pull brake system includes Avid SD7 V-brakes, Kool-Stop Salmon brake pads and Tektro RL-520 long pull brake levers.

What system would you choose?
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Old 12-05-11, 09:00 AM
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My cantis were hell to get dialed in, but I wouldn't trade them for V-brakes. The huge amount of room, even when not put of use, screams potential.

Also, I've hear great things about the CR720. I have Oryx, which gets less favorable reviews.
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Old 12-05-11, 09:03 AM
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Got V's and long-pull Tektros on my bike, I love 'em. Never was a fan of adjusting cantis.
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Old 12-05-11, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Riding in Chicago is very flat, so issues like wheel rim wear are not a factor here.
Not sure I see the correlation here. You do plan on braking, don't you?


IMO, cantilevers and v-brakes can be set up to brake just as well as the other. V-brakes just happen to be much easier to set up.

If you don't need the clearance and have the proper brake levers, go with v-brakes for ease of adjustment.
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Old 12-05-11, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeybikes
Not sure I see the correlation here. You do plan on braking, don't you?
Come to Chicago and I will explain it to you.
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Old 12-05-11, 09:49 AM
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I'm considering switching out the cantis on my LHT for v-brakes, but I have a poor view of cantis due to the low-end ones on the bike.
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Old 12-05-11, 09:53 AM
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A few things to consider. The choice of brake depends, largely, on your shifter/brake lever setup. If you are going to use STI (or think you want to in the future), using cantilevers is easier in terms of compatibility and set up. If you have separate levers and shifters or if you have flat bars (or want to go with them), linear brakes are easier to set up.

Fenders adds another level of complexity. I've tried to use fenders and V-brakes in the past without much success. Because the arms squeeze in while braking, only the narrowest of fenders work with them. Cantilevers are much more forgiving when it comes to using fenders.

I have bikes with both and they have their advantages. The linear brake is dead simple to set up. Cantilevers are a bit more futzy but they offer a more clearance and they play nice with STI. If you don't run fenders on the bike, choose the Avids. If you need fenders...I do sometimes use them... and want to use STI shifters, run cantilevers.
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Old 12-05-11, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Avid SD7 V-brakes, Kool-Stop Salmon brake pads and Tektro RL-520 long pull brake levers.

What system would you choose?
B, that is very close to what I have.
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Old 12-05-11, 12:18 PM
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I say go with whatever you like. V-brakes are easy to set up, cantis will give you more adjustability. Most problems with cantis is not the brake but the set up. If not set up properly, you will get poor performance. Even like the "cheap" ones mentioned above, if set up right they will stop you quick. Linear brakes don't have have this problem because there is only one way to set them up.

For me, I like cantilevers on drop bars and linear brakes on flat bars. Since linear brakes use a longer pull, the pivot is farther on the levers. I have small hands and on drop bars, this does not make a good combination. I just don't get a very good grip and leverage on those types of levers. On flat bars, it really doesn't matter, but I like the simplicity of the linear brakes, but I do have bikes with cantis with flat bars.
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Old 12-05-11, 12:40 PM
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Do you have the ability to use caliper brakes on this bike? I've anecdotally found that canti and v-brakes break down faster in winter than calipers because the pivot mechanisms are below the fenders (and hence get gunked up really easy).
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Old 12-05-11, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Scheherezade
Do you have the ability to use caliper brakes on this bike? I've anecdotally found that canti and v-brakes break down faster in winter than calipers because the pivot mechanisms are below the fenders (and hence get gunked up really easy).
Nope, It's a touring bike frame.

Last winter I tried to use a vintage bike with long-reach caliper brakes. The largest tire I could fit with fenders was a Conti 700x28 and that was tight. The smallest 700c studded tire is a Nokian A10. These are a 700x32 nominal size and are about 30.5mm wide.

I picked this frame since 700x37 and 45mm fenders fit well. The 700x35 studded tires and fenders have good clearance.
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Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-05-11 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 12-05-11, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
... Avid SD7 V-brakes, Kool-Stop Salmon brake pads and Tektro RL-520 long pull brake levers.
Exactly what I built up on my new bike (Bob Jackson, traditional english touring frame).
At the narrowest point above the wheel with the brakes pulled, there is about 75mm space. 45mm fenders would get nowhere close to the brake arms.

I imagine this is very dependent on what fork/seat stay sizes you have, neh? Not trying to disagree with cyccommute, as I greatly respect his technical knowledge - Wind Rose episode already forgotten Just saying how it is on my bike.

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Old 12-05-11, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by imi
Exactly what I built up on my new bike (Bob Jackson, traditional english touring frame).
At the narrowest point above the wheel with the brakes pulled, there is about 75mm space. 45mm fenders would get nowhere close to the brake arms.

I imagine this is very dependent on what fork/seat stay sizes you have, neh? Not trying to disagree with cyccommute, as I greatly respect his technical knowledge - Wind Rose episode already forgotten Just saying how it is on my bike.
Originally Posted by SweetLou
I say go with whatever you like.

For me, I like cantilevers on drop bars and linear brakes on flat bars.
I think it's going to come down to if I want STI "brifters" or not. I like STI on road bikes, but have had bar-end shifters too. The bar-end shifters are easier to use with mittins and heavy gloves.

I'm putting an unusual handlebar on the bike. see: https://somafab.blogspot.com/2010/12/...-launched.html

I'll try installing the brifters I have and see if I like the fit before deciding on the brake system.

If I end-up with bar-end shifters, I'll possible go with V brakes.
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Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-05-11 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 12-05-11, 01:49 PM
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Cantilevers have their place, but I don't think commuting is it. I have three CX bikes. I use one for racing, one for rain commuting and one for fair weather commuting and road rides. The race bike has cantis. The rain bike had cantis, but I switched it over to a front disc brake. The fair weather/road bike had cantis, but I switched it over to an Avid SD7 with Travel Agent in front.

The disc brakes obviously have the best performance. Their biggest annoyance is that they frequently scream like banshees in the rain (although having everyone in a 3 block radius known you're there isn't always a bad thing).

The V-brakes with Travel Agent work very well and are incredibly simple to set up. Using a long-pull brake lever obviously eliminates the need for the Travel Agent, but IMO the Travel Agent is simple enough and works well enough that I wouldn't let cable pull limit my choice of brake levers. I think the RL520's are ugly and don't look to me like they'd have great ergonomics. Other people like them.

The cantilevers can be made powerful, but it often takes a lot of trial and error to get just the right balance of power and feel. Not all cantilevers are difficult to setup. Wide profile brakes like the TR720 are very forgiving and have a wide range of setups that will work. Approaching from another direction, Shimano brakes like the new BR-CX70 come with instructions that let you set them up out of the box in the way that Shimano thinks is best. You pick a set of washers based on your rim width and stud spacing, use the supplied link wire and you're done. I bought a set of these this fall. So far I haven't used them in anything like normal conditions, but I can say I'm happy with how they work in mud. And if you want infinite adjustibility, you can always get a straddle cable and go off the reservation.
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Old 12-05-11, 02:44 PM
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Door #3, My favorite rim brake, after using Cantilevers for 30+ years,
Is Magura's HS33.. The Hydraulic rim Brake.
They Mount on V brake bosses , but don't use them as a pivot.
slave cylinders go straight in.
Magura USA is based in Olney, I think. brakes made in Germany.

My recent buy a bike with cable disc brakes , BB7, and speed dial levers.
so the V and the Speed dial lever might be a good set.

Other cantilevers.. on the bikes, here..
Mafac , on a bike I built in the Mid 70's, are fine,
the pivot braze siting, is where the adjustment happens.

Loaded tour bike I used Scott Peterson SE front and rear
good stoppers , but not sold new any more..

The winter bike, for sub zero C , I built up 20 years ago,
with drum brake hubs , they work great.. they wear the Nokian
studded tires. smooth modulation on black ice seems a valued trait.

new Sturmey Archer versions offer 90mm drums for more friction surface.
and now added a dynamo for all weather lights ,
and a few versions of their IG hubs with drum brakes, 3, 5, 8 speed.

I recently fitted a pair of Spooky cantilevers , CF.
but I think that Belgian Company went under, so close out priced..
put them on the CX bike,
A slight improvement over the Modolo cross brakes ..that I can sell if asked..

TRP [Tektro racing products] took over that market , with their EuroX cantilever
for the Cyclocross Racers.
(a copy of Empella)

Velo Orange has a nice looking Brake , now, some pad up and down,
[Mafac and Spooky are fixed pad height.]
the adjust in place brake shoes can be toed in easily,
and the transverse cable has a fine tuning adjustment,
plus they are shiny polished..
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...rakes-843.html

Though they might look messy by spring..

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Old 12-05-11, 03:23 PM
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Can't help ya, I run disk with studded tires.
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Old 12-05-11, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
I think it's going to come down to if I want STI "brifters" or not. I like STI on road bikes, but have had bar-end shifters too. The bar-end shifters are easier to use with mittins and heavy gloves.

I'm putting an unusual handlebar on the bike. see: https://somafab.blogspot.com/2010/12/...-launched.html

I'll try installing the brifters I have and see if I like the fit before deciding on the brake system.

If I end-up with bar-end shifters, I'll possible go with V brakes.
I used to commute with brifters and have had my gloves get caught between the shift paddle and the brake lever a couple of times. The two bikes I ride during cold commutes both have flat bars, so no more problem with that.

Be careful on that bar you want. Soma lists it as a 22.2 grip area, so brifters won't fit. You could probably shim them though. Also, most 22.2 bars won't accept bar end shifters, you might want to check what the inside diameter is.
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Old 12-06-11, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SweetLou
I used to commute with brifters and have had my gloves get caught between the shift paddle and the brake lever a couple of times. The two bikes I ride during cold commutes both have flat bars, so no more problem with that.

Be careful on that bar you want. Soma lists it as a 22.2 grip area, so brifters won't fit. You could probably shim them though. Also, most 22.2 bars won't accept bar end shifters, you might want to check what the inside diameter is.
I'm discovering this. I have sent an email to Soma to varify if bar-ends will fit.

I'm also looking at this bar which will take brifters or bar-ends: https://salsacycles.com/components/moto_ace_woodchipper/
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Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-06-11 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 12-06-11, 10:00 AM
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I agree with the general trend here...neither is better, both are tools and you have to pick which advantages you want and which disadvantages you can't tolerate. One thing to add is I've found there is a HUGE difference between canti styles...the longer arm touring style cantis are much easier to set up in my experience and have more stopping power. I've had more issues with squeal and more difficult setups with the shorter armed cantis more typically found in cross.

I thought about this a great deal for my in progress winter build and am going v-brakes. The argument for cantis would be fenders, but I'm not sure I want snow/slush catching in the fenders anyway. Part of the argument is that the cantis I have laying around are Pauls, and I didn't want to subject such a nice brakeset to winter slop conditions. I'm tossing on a set of older used xt v-brakes I got on the cheap.
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Old 12-06-11, 10:21 AM
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Hydraulic disc brakes are the way to go unless you are seriously budget constrained (in which case, go with standard disc brakes). Rim brakes are simply too unreliable.

As you are building a winter-specific bike, the assumption is you have enough money to build a proper winter bike. I wouldn't risk my life with brakes that may or may not stop when needed.
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Old 12-06-11, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
I'm discovering this. I have sent an email to Soma to varify if bar-ends will fit.

I'm also looking at this bar which will take brifters or bar-ends: https://salsacycles.com/components/moto_ace_woodchipper/
Soma Sparrows are specifically listed as supporting bar ends though they have a 22.2 grip area. The Soma 3-speed Moustache Bar (which I'm currently offering as a cheap trade) supports bar ends and has a 23.8 grip area. Soma bars seem to be all over the map, so asking them directly was definitely the way to go.
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Old 12-06-11, 10:59 AM
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I haven't used V brakes but have Tektro CR-720 and Shimano BR-R550 canti brakes on two bikes that I use for commuting and Ultegra caliper brakes on my other road bikes. All of them work fine if properly set up. The biggest factor that I have found is the brake pads, and I have replaced all of the stock pads on my brakes with KoolStop salmons. I must have good mechanics because my canti brakes have functioned perfectly -- they stop well, have plenty of clearance for larger tires and fenders, and don't squeal. They also stop better, particularly in rain, than my caliper brakes.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
I'm discovering this. I have sent an email to Soma to varify if bar-ends will fit.

I'm also looking at this bar which will take brifters or bar-ends: https://salsacycles.com/components/moto_ace_woodchipper/
Also, if you go with a 22.2 bar you might want to take a look at the levers you want to use. There are some that will do both but many only work with linear brakes. And just a few that work with cantis. That is if you go with a flat bar type lever.

If you like brifters but want a drop bar with a lot of flare, there are other bars out there, like the dirt drop. Randonneur bars also have some flare, but not nearly as much as the dirt drop style. Velo-Orange has a couple of bars that might work for you also. They have a couple of cruiser style bars that are 23.8 and accept bar end shifters.
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Old 12-06-11, 11:44 AM
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drop bars ?. eliminates any hydraulic brake options, all are for 22.2 bar, 7/8"
road bars are bigger.. 23.8, 15/16"

I run Campag Road levers, their older pre brifter type, on Nitto 'Mustache' bars,
and sun tour Friction bar end shifters ,
with the drum brakes, on my studded tire equipped bike..

I think shifting and braking with mittens on would work,
Lobster claw, or 3 finger gloves certainly.

there are external clamp on pods Made for Shimano bar end shifters,
3rd party maker.... if the bar you want is thick walled tube.
so that is a possibility..

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Old 12-06-11, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
drop bars ?. eliminates any hydraulic brake options, all are for 22.2 bar, 7/8"
road bars are bigger.. 23.8, 15/16"

I run Campag Road levers, their older pre brifter type, on Nitto 'Mustache' bars,
and sun tour Friction bar end shifters ,
with the drum brakes, on my studded tire equipped bike..

I think shifting and braking with mittens on would work,
Lobster claw, or 3 finger gloves certainly.

there are external clamp on pods Made for Shimano bar end shifters,
3rd party maker.... if the bar you want is thick walled tube.
so that is a possibility..
Yes, I'll be using drop bars. I'll also be using 3 finger military sniper mits with the single trigger-finger for shifting.

Any links for the clamp-on-pods?
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