ndrose

I have a 1991 (I think) Crisscross, which got a lot of use at one time, then (marriage, kids) sat unused for some years; now I am cycling again. Planning to step up to a better bike, but want to take my time deciding what. For that reason, and because of sentimental attachment, I would like to keep the Crisscross going.

The chain is way out of spec. Took it to the LBS for what I assumed would be a simple replacement. But the mechanic said it would be hard getting a good fit with the existing Suntour components. It wasn’t clear to me afterwards whether he was saying the problem was that they are Suntour, or that they are already worn. (FWIW they don’t look to me as bad as might be expected.) His advice was just to keep riding it as is until I get a new bike. Replacing the whole drivetrain is also possible but would cost more than the bike did originally. I know, inflation, but still.

Would like some other alternative. Any suggestions?

WizardOfBoz

So first, does the thing shift well at all?

When you say that the chain is way out of spec, does this mean that the chain is stretched (replacing the chain is easy), or is the derailleur not putting the chain in the right place? If the latter, is the LBS saying that the derailleurs or the shifters are toast?

If it worked when you put away, I'd have to think that replacing cables and readjusting the derailleurs wouldn't be too expensive relative to a new bike.

Or is one or both derailleurs and/or shifter toast?

Another guys' refurb of a CrissCross:
https://zeusmeatball.blogspot.com/p/...risscross.html

shelbyfv

Instead of guessing, I'd go back to the LBS and ask the mechanic for clarification. Those are decent bikes and it's hard to figure a legit new bike would be cheaper than replacing some components. Maybe post some pics if you want to continue internet diagnosis.

Moe Zhoost

The statement "getting a good fit" doesn't make sense. Too short? Too long? Too narrow? To wide? All of these are simple to resolve. Since you don't recall any recommendation to replace chainrings or rear cogs, I'd guess that the mechanic didn't mention them because they weren't a problem. No mechanic will neglect the chance to sell more parts and service. You can go back and ask for a better explanation, or go to another shop for a 2nd opinion. Chains for 5/6/7/8 speeds are cheap (<$10), so just installing a new one is an easy way to get back on the road. If there are other issues following a new chain, then you can address them.

Do you have a bike co-op in your area? These are great resources for helping people with problems like this.

Build yourself up to 10 posts and then show us some pictures of your drivetrain.

ndrose

Thanks for the replies. I will post a pic when I have enough posts.

Yes, by out of spec I mean the chain is stretched. It shifts ok; occasionally slips. I adjusted the rear derailleur over the summer and it works fine now. Front is friction so pretty tolerant.

The mechanic was saying that in order to replace the chain effectively, the chainrings and cassette would also have to be replaced, and he didn’t think that was worth doing. The part that afterwards I realized wasn’t clear: he was talking about their wear and the fact that Suntour isn’t made anymore; so I’m not sure whether he’s saying the problem is that some part is too worn to fit a new chain (though as I said they don’t look so bad to me) and that if you replace one Suntour part you have to replace them all, or that a new chain just won’t fit Suntour parts, or what.

As I said, it’s working ok now, but I’m afraid that if I keep running it with the current chain, if the drivetrain isn’t shot now it will be soon.

You’re right, I should go back and talk to them again. From the responses I gather that “there’s no point in replacing that chain” is not an expected resolution.

rumrunn6

Get another opinion from another shop but if it’s shifting and riding fine it may not need any work - if it’s your desire to upgrade I’ve been happy buying used trek fx bikes on Craigslist just get the right size and get one that you test ride and which needs no work - lots out there to choose from - at least in my area - then donate your old Schwinn to a coop or give away or sell for $50 on CL - I too have an old crisscross to get rid of - it has more life to it - I bought it used for $50 and it’s time to pass it on but it’s gonna be up to someone else to refurb

mitchmellow62

Find a 12 inch ruler or a tape and measure chain elongation first. For me, a ruler works best. On a new mounted chain with the ruler held against a length of the chain, the ends of a 12 inch ruler should land on the same spot of 2 chain pins (center to center or edge to edge). The general rule is if the chain is elongated 1/16 inch beyond the 12 inches you should be able to just replace the chain. If the chain is elongated 1/8 inch you may need to replace rear cogs and chain rings. I've been able to get by with just replacing the chain at 1/8 inch on occasion so I always start with the chain first and evaluate how the rest perform with the new chain. The measurement should be relatively easy for you to do and will clarify the situation. There are also much better explanations online (Sheldon Brown, the almighty youtube, etc.).

WizardOfBoz

Did a little research. The Crisscross was supposedly make of 4130 (a chrome-moly) steel and the tubes are double butted and the construction was brazed lugs. The dropouts and eyelets are forged. My wife has a similar bike (a Crosscut) and the frame quality is pretty high. So, worth saving IMHO.
Specs here: https://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCa...0/1991_18.html

You could take a pic of the chainrings and cogs and upload to google pics and post the URL in one of your notes. This to see if your chainrings and cogs are really toast. You could also do a little google fu and find articles about worn chainrings and see if you can assess whether your gear teeth are in good shape or are overly worn.

Barring a more exact analysis of your gear teath, and given that you have marginally ok performance now, I'd be tempted to swap the chain out and see if you eliminate the slipping. THEN you can ride the thing till you find a new bike, without gears slipping. And if it doesn't work, you're out only the cost of a chain.

The bike also originally had a SunTour SR XCT crank with 170mm arms and 28-38-48 rings. If you determine that the chainrings are toast (teeth worn down, wide gaps, hook shapes, etc), the whole crankset (without bottom bracket) is available for about $44 on Amazon (may be less elsewhere): https://www.amazon.com/Suntour-XCT-C...g-goods&sr=1-3

If the derailleurs are toast it may just be jockey wheels. If the derailleurs are messed up, you may be able to find a replacement on eBay or elsewhere.

dedhed

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vgc-SunTour...8AAOSwTO9d1KtG

dsbrantjr

The CrissCross is a very nice bike; I have a '92 which I ride a lot. You should be able to just fit it with any 6-7-8 speed chain. If the new chain doesn't skip on the old cassette you are set. If it skips you can replace the cassette, although 7-speed cassettes are less common than in the past. If you have a freewheel instead of a cassette (I thought they all had cassettes but I may be incorrect) they are easily replaceable, too. My SunTour shifters worked with the replacement Shimano cassette but has since been replaced with an SL-M310 set and Tektro brake levers. Well worth fixing and keeping IMO.

3Roch

those are nice bikes; we have one.
It's very unlikely the whole drivetrain is shot, get a new KMC chain form a 'bay store or wherever(they come with a masterlink and are less than $20) cut it to length using the 1 inch excess when over the biggest front and rear sprockets dance, and you should be good for another 10 years.

BTW: chain isn't brand specific...you just need the right pitch ( it's all 1/2" pitch) and the right width (which is a function of speeds 7/8/9 whatever

I suspect your LBS was wanting to sell you a new bike.

rseeker

When I was shopping last time (I'm not now) I wanted a 90s steel hybrid and the Crisscross was on the list. I'd think about hanging onto it.

Ronsonic 

A lot of the guys working in shops are unfamiliar with older bikes and many are just sort of ignorant in general. There should be no trouble fitting a chain to that bike and unless cogs and / or chainwheels are worn beyond use by the old chain it should all adjust up and run well.

Get a second opinion.

rumrunn6

fwiw - this thread reminded me of one I started for the same bike

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...1-freehub.html

never did anything with the rear gears. I need to mount up some fresh tires & flip it. you're welcome to it for parts if you're in the Boston area

JohnDThompson 

If the chain is worn, I suspect the most you would need to do to get it working again is replace both the chain and the rear cluster, as a new chain will not seat well on a worn cluster. Any 7 or 8 speed chain ought to suffice, but unless you can find a cluster that will mount on your rear hub, you may need to replace or rebuild the rear wheel with a hub for which cluster components are available.

rumrunn6

or just get a new-to-you bike ...

low miles, stored inside! Trek 7.3 FX Hybrid Gravel Bike - Reduced! - $320 (Quincy, MA)

Trek FX Commuter/Hybrid Bike - $180 (Sandwich, MA)

WizardOfBoz

Hard to argue against a good quality bike with those specs for 300 bucks or so. I ride a Trek (CF) and bought my son a Trek with aluminum frame. That said, I view steel as generally more comfortable and less stiff for a given strength spec (I sold my 531 Paramount, but am in the process of restoring a 1978 CrMo Superior and a 1973 World Voyaguer). The CrissCross and CrossCut bikes are very nice brazed lug double-butted CrMo. Were it me, I'd probably put the effort into getting the CrissCross working well and see how I like it. A chain and a new freewheel (and tires) probably gets you a very nice setup, too.

WizardOfBoz

If it works pretty good with a stretched chain I'd have to think that it would work better with a new chain.

This is possible but not set in stone. If you have chain slipping on just one cog or chain ring, maybe. But again, it works pretty good - try a new chain alone!

Yeah, I agree that some clarification would be useful. Ask specifically where the issue is: are the cogs or chainrings worn? Generally, you wear out cogs and chainrings more slowly than chains, so that you replace the chain several times before you have to change any of the things with teeth.

If you replace the chain and the shifting works and you keep the chain cleaned and lubed, I don't think you'll destroy the chain with worn cogs. A worn chain will create more wear on the cogs and chainring.

Agree - it may be all you need (but check the rubber, too: brake pads and tires)

I think you're asking the right questions.

ndrose

Lots of good information here; thanks to all. Going back to LBS in a day or two. May be true that they want to sell me a new bike; I have been in there browsing bikes a few times, but decided to go in a different direction from what they stock. I’ve bought a lot of miscellaneous things from them, though, so I don’t feel like I’ve wasted their time.

ndrose

Used to live in Boston, but not anymore. Thanks for the kind offer, though.

jbucky1

I have seen / worked on a lot of bikes like this. What the person in the shop probably meant was that your chain is worn and so are some of the other components. Then in their head they made a value decision and recommended that you should buy a new bike rather than investing in new parts. - thats what I think.

if there is a lot worn, the repair bill might stack up a few hundred $ with labor, so maybe their shop sells $400 ish bikes that they thought might be a good route for you.

ndrose

I expect you’re right that something like that was in his mind. In fact, I’m ready to spend more like $1500-2000 (on something like a Kona Sutra), but therefore want to take my time making sure it’s the right bike.

I guess the question I need to clarify with them or another shop is whether, if I just replace the chain for now, I will (as the mechanic seemed to be implying) make things worse, or will (as I had assumed) make things at least marginally better and buy myself some time to decide whether it’s worthwhile to replace other components.

On the other hand, I’ve been having so much fun with the Crisscross since I took it out again last spring that if I put a few hundred into a new drivetrain I might just decide not to bother with a new bike!

alcjphil

One thing to find out is if your bike has a cassette or a freewheel. Suntour cassettes are difficult to find, but freewheels for your bike don't have to be Suntour and they are inexpensive. It is very unlikely that your chainrings are worn out. You may need an inexpensive freewheel and a new chain in order to repair a very good quality bike. Find a bike shop that can tell you exactly what you need to buy. If your chain had never been replaced before, it is unlikely that the chainrings or derailleurs are worn out

jbucky1

If the chain is very worn, then it is probably (highly likely but not 100% certain) going to make things worse if you just replace the chain.

here is an article I wrote that might assist you in some way - https://buckyrides.com/chain-life-the-lies-the-truth/

ndrose

Thanks for the very useful article. Great stuff.