Passed By E-Bike
07-06-20, 04:42 AM
#101
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The US has higher power limits (750 watts) for ebikes than the rest of the world (HR-727). Factory built ebikes seem to market toward the European limit of 250 watts. That is a HUGE difference, factory finished bikes are seriously underpowered
I put a Bafang kit on a mid 80's Cannondale for ~$1500. That includes a high end kit and battery plus multiple other upgrades to turn the bike into a commuter. Hardest part of the swap was removing the 30 year old bottom bracket. Rest of the install was a less than a day, couple more weeks of tweaking to get things right.
Trust me, you want the extra power. Don’t have to use it, it will suck the battery when you do, but it is really nice having when it is needed. The Bafang kits are all programmable by the user. You can dial in the assist levels, power limits and speed limits. Can’t do that with a Bosch unit.
One other thing I find the boost makes the bike safer in traffic. The thumb throttle is particularly useful when starting out at a light or merging in traffic. Being able to quickly match the flow of traffic is a good thing.
07-16-20, 05:51 PM
#102
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It is interesting what people will say in the safety of their bubble sitting in front of a glass screen typing into a keyboard. I wonder how we would react to Mike saying this if we were in a face-to-face social gathering together, perhaps chatting about how ebikes are a rising trend, and he let loose with the above quote.
If he said it with a smile, clearly taking the piss out others, [translate into American English as poking fun], then it might pass without much comment - one of those fluff comments that add little, but no one minds.
I do this frequently
But if the exclamation point (!) means he is serious or being aggressive, the others would mumble something to extract themselves and move away, thinking or commenting to their mate, what a tw*t [AE=jerk].
Ebikes are a new form of transportation. They look like bicycles, indeed can be made by adding a motor kit to a bicycle, but they are a different vehicle. To understand this, rent one for a day, and after becoming used to it, shut the power off and see what happens. That hill suddenly became huge. The wind became strong. The distance further and the experience transformed from delight to leg and lung pain; a bit like riding through molasses. With a reasonable power assist (750W or less), the power becomes invisible. You are pedalling, moving forward, and it feels normal. Only when the power cuts do you realise how the assist has changed the experience.
In urban areas, ebikes can be the fastest form of transport. Indeed in Auckland Central, where they just lowered the speed limit to 30 kph (18 mph), ebikes will be candidates for speeding tickets. Getting from the CBD to Ponsonby can take 30 minutes by car and 40 by bus, or 5 minutes by ebike. The trains and ferries take them for free. The Auckland hills and wind are such that traditional cycling is reserved for very fit riders. The ebike riders are not lazy, they are transporting themselves. Do we call car drivers lazy? No they are just drivers.
If you go to Europe, you will find cities that have extensive cycling infrastructures. Most of those cities are flat. Until ebikes, steep places like parts of Switzerland were less likely to be cycling paradises. Now that is changing.
America has regarded bicycles as a toy for children, with a very small minority of adult road riders and more recently MTB riders except in trendy cities like Boston or Portland. But now, ebikes are making inroads. Curiously, America is better set up for them because when they built the Interstate Highway System, that reduced traffic on the secondary roads - fewer trucks to blow you into the bushes. And America has always built big, so the roads are much wider. The main challenge has to do with drivers who see so few cyclists they don't share the road or know what to do. As ebikes put more people on two wheels, this will change.
Riding an ebike is a good way to get around as long as you are dressed for the weather. They are good to ride to work, to shop, visit friends or just get outdoors. They open up new destinations, and if the seating is upright so you can see others, they are social. People smile and acknowledge each other. Ebikes are a shift in technology that changes how people live, especially in urban environments.
If he said it with a smile, clearly taking the piss out others, [translate into American English as poking fun], then it might pass without much comment - one of those fluff comments that add little, but no one minds.
I do this frequently
But if the exclamation point (!) means he is serious or being aggressive, the others would mumble something to extract themselves and move away, thinking or commenting to their mate, what a tw*t [AE=jerk].
Ebikes are a new form of transportation. They look like bicycles, indeed can be made by adding a motor kit to a bicycle, but they are a different vehicle. To understand this, rent one for a day, and after becoming used to it, shut the power off and see what happens. That hill suddenly became huge. The wind became strong. The distance further and the experience transformed from delight to leg and lung pain; a bit like riding through molasses. With a reasonable power assist (750W or less), the power becomes invisible. You are pedalling, moving forward, and it feels normal. Only when the power cuts do you realise how the assist has changed the experience.
In urban areas, ebikes can be the fastest form of transport. Indeed in Auckland Central, where they just lowered the speed limit to 30 kph (18 mph), ebikes will be candidates for speeding tickets. Getting from the CBD to Ponsonby can take 30 minutes by car and 40 by bus, or 5 minutes by ebike. The trains and ferries take them for free. The Auckland hills and wind are such that traditional cycling is reserved for very fit riders. The ebike riders are not lazy, they are transporting themselves. Do we call car drivers lazy? No they are just drivers.
If you go to Europe, you will find cities that have extensive cycling infrastructures. Most of those cities are flat. Until ebikes, steep places like parts of Switzerland were less likely to be cycling paradises. Now that is changing.
America has regarded bicycles as a toy for children, with a very small minority of adult road riders and more recently MTB riders except in trendy cities like Boston or Portland. But now, ebikes are making inroads. Curiously, America is better set up for them because when they built the Interstate Highway System, that reduced traffic on the secondary roads - fewer trucks to blow you into the bushes. And America has always built big, so the roads are much wider. The main challenge has to do with drivers who see so few cyclists they don't share the road or know what to do. As ebikes put more people on two wheels, this will change.
Riding an ebike is a good way to get around as long as you are dressed for the weather. They are good to ride to work, to shop, visit friends or just get outdoors. They open up new destinations, and if the seating is upright so you can see others, they are social. People smile and acknowledge each other. Ebikes are a shift in technology that changes how people live, especially in urban environments.
However on Sunday rides at the coffee shop (which I have not been able to enjoy for the last four months in Melbourne) I frequently encounter apparently able bodied recreational cyclists who tell me how much easier it is to ride an ebike much faster, able to ride further etc.
These fall into the lazy category IMNSOHO.
https://abclisten.page.link/yJZ5DQ2Aev4nFSW47.
The above link is to an ABC podcast which aired recently on the history of cycling as transport.
You may be able to access it through a VPN.
Cheers
Mike
07-16-20, 06:51 PM
#103
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07-16-20, 07:33 PM
#104
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It is interesting what people will say in the safety of their bubble sitting in front of a glass screen typing into a keyboard. I wonder how we would react to Mike saying this if we were in a face-to-face social gathering together, perhaps chatting about how ebikes are a rising trend, and he let loose with the above quote.
Her instant response: "Of course not. I'm not old."
The whole table instantly fell silent. Another colleague, when asked the same question, says: "I could never live with the shame of riding an e-bike." But he says it with a smirk and everybody laughs. My stock answer is: "Maybe I'll try a bike with multiple gears first." By the way this friend can drop me on his e-bike with the motor turned off.
07-16-20, 07:36 PM
#105
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You have enumerated all the advantages of ebikes as transport and I agree with all you have written.
However on Sunday rides at the coffee shop (which I have not been able to enjoy for the last four months in Melbourne) I frequently encounter apparently able bodied recreational cyclists who tell me how much easier it is to ride an ebike much faster, able to ride further etc.
These fall into the lazy category IMNSOHO.
https://abclisten.page.link/yJZ5DQ2Aev4nFSW47.
The above link is to an ABC podcast which aired recently on the history of cycling as transport.
You may be able to access it through a VPN.
Cheers
Mike
However on Sunday rides at the coffee shop (which I have not been able to enjoy for the last four months in Melbourne) I frequently encounter apparently able bodied recreational cyclists who tell me how much easier it is to ride an ebike much faster, able to ride further etc.
These fall into the lazy category IMNSOHO.
https://abclisten.page.link/yJZ5DQ2Aev4nFSW47.
The above link is to an ABC podcast which aired recently on the history of cycling as transport.
You may be able to access it through a VPN.
Cheers
Mike
Ebikes are a game changer. They are still in the early stages, but global competition will see better batteries, smarter motors and fit-for-purpose safety and comfort features. Able-bodied cyclists will divide into those into fitness and those into motion (further, faster, fun-er [is that a word?]). No different than horse riders in the 19th century were the norm, until cars came in and transport divided into riding as a hobby and driving as a way to get around.
Ebikes do have some benefits for the HP-bike (human-powered bicycle) tribe. In flat Europe, bicycles were embraced after the OPEC oil crisis of 1972. Thus cities and states began to build purpose-built bike roads and paths. Cycling is safe (and delightful) in Europe and long-distance cycling is on cycle roads not only separate from car roads, but in many cases far enough away (often along rivers) that riders do not hear road noise. And to be clear, it was only flat Europe where HP cycling thrived. In the places with hills and mountains, the car remains king, except for the highly competitive few who ride for pain - like my cousin who does the Paris to Rome ride, 200 km a day with his nose pointed to the pavement the whole time... while I would do Dresden to Prague on a city bike at 30 km a day on the flat EU Bike Route 2... with lot's of hobbit stops for early breakfast, mid morning coffee and pastry, midday lunch with beer & wine, afternoon Prosecco and cake, arrival dinner and evening nightcap. But would I do that in my home country of NZ, with its hills and wind? Not a chance. Until I bolted a motor kit on my city bike, I drove to the coffee shop, as did everyone else.
As the rest of the world moves to ebikes, ridership will increase, with far more bikes on the road than in the HP-cycle era. Worldwide, cities will employ road planners to put in European-style cycle lanes. Drivers will become more used to the presence of cycles on their road, thus kill fewer of them out of inattention ("I never saw her before I crushed her, I'm so sorry"). Highway departments will start doing a better job of designing drain grates, repairing potholes and sweeping up broken glass. More children will ride bikes, and more businesses will become bike friendly.
Able-bodied ebike riders are not lazy, they are just people enjoying a different way to get to the coffee shop. Unless they pose a hazard to the HP cyclist, I don't understand why there is an issue. The more riders, the merrier (until we get bicycle traffic jams like in Amsterdam). And when they brag to you at the coffee shop, do like the Americans do with military - thank them for their service
. That should baffle them enough to stop proselytising.
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07-16-20, 07:39 PM
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I use my e bike so I can go faster. I work hard and as I get better I use lower and lower assist levels. being able to keep my speed up is a key feature I commute 25 miles a day and it saves me 30 minutes a day or more. but Now I love to pass people on fat tire e bikes peddling slow. I love it even more going uphill or if they are using throttle only. but I have to work at it to do it. I try to do it in the lowest assist level I can manage.
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07-19-20, 11:15 PM
#107
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Well, this reply is a bit more civil than the first (Riding an e bike to work to avoid getting sweaty is a good use, For the rest they are great if you are sick, lame or lazy!) but I still make a plea to the forum to not fall into the Luddite trap.
Ebikes are a game changer. They are still in the early stages, but global competition will see better batteries, smarter motors and fit-for-purpose safety and comfort features. Able-bodied cyclists will divide into those into fitness and those into motion (further, faster, fun-er [is that a word?]). No different than horse riders in the 19th century were the norm, until cars came in and transport divided into riding as a hobby and driving as a way to get around.
Ebikes do have some benefits for the HP-bike (human-powered bicycle) tribe. In flat Europe, bicycles were embraced after the OPEC oil crisis of 1972. Thus cities and states began to build purpose-built bike roads and paths. Cycling is safe (and delightful) in Europe and long-distance cycling is on cycle roads not only separate from car roads, but in many cases far enough away (often along rivers) that riders do not hear road noise. And to be clear, it was only flat Europe where HP cycling thrived. In the places with hills and mountains, the car remains king, except for the highly competitive few who ride for pain - like my cousin who does the Paris to Rome ride, 200 km a day with his nose pointed to the pavement the whole time... while I would do Dresden to Prague on a city bike at 30 km a day on the flat EU Bike Route 2... with lot's of hobbit stops for early breakfast, mid morning coffee and pastry, midday lunch with beer & wine, afternoon Prosecco and cake, arrival dinner and evening nightcap. But would I do that in my home country of NZ, with its hills and wind? Not a chance. Until I bolted a motor kit on my city bike, I drove to the coffee shop, as did everyone else.
As the rest of the world moves to ebikes, ridership will increase, with far more bikes on the road than in the HP-cycle era. Worldwide, cities will employ road planners to put in European-style cycle lanes. Drivers will become more used to the presence of cycles on their road, thus kill fewer of them out of inattention ("I never saw her before I crushed her, I'm so sorry"). Highway departments will start doing a better job of designing drain grates, repairing potholes and sweeping up broken glass. More children will ride bikes, and more businesses will become bike friendly.
Able-bodied ebike riders are not lazy, they are just people enjoying a different way to get to the coffee shop. Unless they pose a hazard to the HP cyclist, I don't understand why there is an issue. The more riders, the merrier (until we get bicycle traffic jams like in Amsterdam). And when they brag to you at the coffee shop, do like the Americans do with military - thank them for their service. That should baffle them enough to stop proselytising.
Ebikes are a game changer. They are still in the early stages, but global competition will see better batteries, smarter motors and fit-for-purpose safety and comfort features. Able-bodied cyclists will divide into those into fitness and those into motion (further, faster, fun-er [is that a word?]). No different than horse riders in the 19th century were the norm, until cars came in and transport divided into riding as a hobby and driving as a way to get around.
Ebikes do have some benefits for the HP-bike (human-powered bicycle) tribe. In flat Europe, bicycles were embraced after the OPEC oil crisis of 1972. Thus cities and states began to build purpose-built bike roads and paths. Cycling is safe (and delightful) in Europe and long-distance cycling is on cycle roads not only separate from car roads, but in many cases far enough away (often along rivers) that riders do not hear road noise. And to be clear, it was only flat Europe where HP cycling thrived. In the places with hills and mountains, the car remains king, except for the highly competitive few who ride for pain - like my cousin who does the Paris to Rome ride, 200 km a day with his nose pointed to the pavement the whole time... while I would do Dresden to Prague on a city bike at 30 km a day on the flat EU Bike Route 2... with lot's of hobbit stops for early breakfast, mid morning coffee and pastry, midday lunch with beer & wine, afternoon Prosecco and cake, arrival dinner and evening nightcap. But would I do that in my home country of NZ, with its hills and wind? Not a chance. Until I bolted a motor kit on my city bike, I drove to the coffee shop, as did everyone else.
As the rest of the world moves to ebikes, ridership will increase, with far more bikes on the road than in the HP-cycle era. Worldwide, cities will employ road planners to put in European-style cycle lanes. Drivers will become more used to the presence of cycles on their road, thus kill fewer of them out of inattention ("I never saw her before I crushed her, I'm so sorry"). Highway departments will start doing a better job of designing drain grates, repairing potholes and sweeping up broken glass. More children will ride bikes, and more businesses will become bike friendly.
Able-bodied ebike riders are not lazy, they are just people enjoying a different way to get to the coffee shop. Unless they pose a hazard to the HP cyclist, I don't understand why there is an issue. The more riders, the merrier (until we get bicycle traffic jams like in Amsterdam). And when they brag to you at the coffee shop, do like the Americans do with military - thank them for their service
. That should baffle them enough to stop proselytising.Mike
07-20-20, 09:10 AM
#110
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Well, this reply is a bit more civil than the first (Riding an e bike to work to avoid getting sweaty is a good use, For the rest they are great if you are sick, lame or lazy!) but I still make a plea to the forum to not fall into the Luddite trap.
Ebikes are a game changer. They are still in the early stages, but global competition will see better batteries, smarter motors and fit-for-purpose safety and comfort features. Able-bodied cyclists will divide into those into fitness and those into motion (further, faster, fun-er [is that a word?]). No different than horse riders in the 19th century were the norm, until cars came in and transport divided into riding as a hobby and driving as a way to get around.
Ebikes do have some benefits for the HP-bike (human-powered bicycle) tribe. In flat Europe, bicycles were embraced after the OPEC oil crisis of 1972. Thus cities and states began to build purpose-built bike roads and paths. Cycling is safe (and delightful) in Europe and long-distance cycling is on cycle roads not only separate from car roads, but in many cases far enough away (often along rivers) that riders do not hear road noise. And to be clear, it was only flat Europe where HP cycling thrived. In the places with hills and mountains, the car remains king, except for the highly competitive few who ride for pain - like my cousin who does the Paris to Rome ride, 200 km a day with his nose pointed to the pavement the whole time... while I would do Dresden to Prague on a city bike at 30 km a day on the flat EU Bike Route 2... with lot's of hobbit stops for early breakfast, mid morning coffee and pastry, midday lunch with beer & wine, afternoon Prosecco and cake, arrival dinner and evening nightcap. But would I do that in my home country of NZ, with its hills and wind? Not a chance. Until I bolted a motor kit on my city bike, I drove to the coffee shop, as did everyone else.
As the rest of the world moves to ebikes, ridership will increase, with far more bikes on the road than in the HP-cycle era. Worldwide, cities will employ road planners to put in European-style cycle lanes. Drivers will become more used to the presence of cycles on their road, thus kill fewer of them out of inattention ("I never saw her before I crushed her, I'm so sorry"). Highway departments will start doing a better job of designing drain grates, repairing potholes and sweeping up broken glass. More children will ride bikes, and more businesses will become bike friendly.
Able-bodied ebike riders are not lazy, they are just people enjoying a different way to get to the coffee shop. Unless they pose a hazard to the HP cyclist, I don't understand why there is an issue. The more riders, the merrier (until we get bicycle traffic jams like in Amsterdam). And when they brag to you at the coffee shop, do like the Americans do with military - thank them for their service. That should baffle them enough to stop proselytising.
Ebikes are a game changer. They are still in the early stages, but global competition will see better batteries, smarter motors and fit-for-purpose safety and comfort features. Able-bodied cyclists will divide into those into fitness and those into motion (further, faster, fun-er [is that a word?]). No different than horse riders in the 19th century were the norm, until cars came in and transport divided into riding as a hobby and driving as a way to get around.
Ebikes do have some benefits for the HP-bike (human-powered bicycle) tribe. In flat Europe, bicycles were embraced after the OPEC oil crisis of 1972. Thus cities and states began to build purpose-built bike roads and paths. Cycling is safe (and delightful) in Europe and long-distance cycling is on cycle roads not only separate from car roads, but in many cases far enough away (often along rivers) that riders do not hear road noise. And to be clear, it was only flat Europe where HP cycling thrived. In the places with hills and mountains, the car remains king, except for the highly competitive few who ride for pain - like my cousin who does the Paris to Rome ride, 200 km a day with his nose pointed to the pavement the whole time... while I would do Dresden to Prague on a city bike at 30 km a day on the flat EU Bike Route 2... with lot's of hobbit stops for early breakfast, mid morning coffee and pastry, midday lunch with beer & wine, afternoon Prosecco and cake, arrival dinner and evening nightcap. But would I do that in my home country of NZ, with its hills and wind? Not a chance. Until I bolted a motor kit on my city bike, I drove to the coffee shop, as did everyone else.
As the rest of the world moves to ebikes, ridership will increase, with far more bikes on the road than in the HP-cycle era. Worldwide, cities will employ road planners to put in European-style cycle lanes. Drivers will become more used to the presence of cycles on their road, thus kill fewer of them out of inattention ("I never saw her before I crushed her, I'm so sorry"). Highway departments will start doing a better job of designing drain grates, repairing potholes and sweeping up broken glass. More children will ride bikes, and more businesses will become bike friendly.
Able-bodied ebike riders are not lazy, they are just people enjoying a different way to get to the coffee shop. Unless they pose a hazard to the HP cyclist, I don't understand why there is an issue. The more riders, the merrier (until we get bicycle traffic jams like in Amsterdam). And when they brag to you at the coffee shop, do like the Americans do with military - thank them for their service
. That should baffle them enough to stop proselytising.Local to me there are quite a few commuters who ride near the house. It's about 70 to 100 feet elevation per mile travel in my neighborhood. I couldn't wish that on a regular commuter. I welcome that.
I'd say lately, the menace is people that move to the city from being "country boyzzz, yeeehaw" and bring their 4-wheeler or dirtbike in town. Then illegally ride it everywhere like a menace. I've encountered that about 10x more often than an e-bike being a menace on the MUP.
The one time an e-bike would have been a menace was watching one go about double the speed limit of the MUP up a hill weaving in and out of children and runners. I was riding my manual TT bike on the motor road that runs parallel to said MUP. ****** should have been on the motor road with me, not the MUP. But for every one e-bike rider doing that, we've got 20 manual bike "racers" doing that on the MUP. Again, no problem here.
We've never ever had an e-bike show up to an A-ride. Be it cafe' weekend ride or competitive weeknight worlds.
That's almost no negative at all for me.
I used to gripe about e-bikes a lot. I'm coming around. Still not my thing, but happy it is somebody else's thing now.
07-20-20, 09:53 AM
#111
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07-20-20, 09:56 AM
#112
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Here's my official opinion on whether or not other people should use e-bikes and how:
No one should care what my opinion is on whether they should use e-bikes and how as long as they're not doing something stupid like hauling big loads fast on a MUP.
No one should care what my opinion is on whether they should use e-bikes and how as long as they're not doing something stupid like hauling big loads fast on a MUP.
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