Should I be worried? Crack(s)
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Should I be worried? Crack(s)
Today I had my new old bike upside down. And noticed these two cracks. The one under my saddle I'm not sure about if it's the paint or the connection.
The other one near my back brake is length wise. that probably means they didn't use seamless tubing.
What do guys think?
The other one near my back brake is length wise. that probably means they didn't use seamless tubing.
What do guys think?
#2
Some Weirdo
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 502
Bikes: '86 Schwinn Prelude, '91 Scott Sawtooth, '73 Raleigh "Grand 3"
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times
in
92 Posts
That is... problematic. Do NOT continue riding that bike. Do not pass GO and collect $200.
#5
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 10,997
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2192 Post(s)
Liked 4,580 Times
in
1,762 Posts
Bummer! While I wouldn't write it off just yet, not without some further investigation, I'll agree that it doesn't look particularly good.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,674
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,747 Times
in
937 Posts
Clean it and re-silver solder (make sure that a professional does this). My guess is that the frame is pretty special. Were the frame mine, I would do what I just suggested, repaint and keep an eye on it forever. If the crack does show up again, or the stay separates, you will, most likely, not crash but you just might have to walk home.
Question - is the frame something pretty special?
Question - is the frame something pretty special?
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,149
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2361 Post(s)
Liked 1,745 Times
in
1,189 Posts
Hmm, I must be the only one without X-ray vision, unable to see if the frame is damaged without removing the paint.
#8
Senior Member
I would definitely make that a "no downhill" rider. Just for flat road riding less than 20mph now.
#9
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,630
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4677 Post(s)
Liked 5,790 Times
in
2,279 Posts
Yeah, remove the paint in the areas of concern, otherwise you're guessing.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
I didn't notice anything wrong with this bike until I was riding it to the store late one night. I thought I had a rear tire flat when the bike started to squirm a bit. I stopped and felt the tire and it was hard. I then thought perhaps my rear rack was looses and I pulled it side to side. that's when I saw this.
I was still able to ride that bike to the store and then back home. After that it was broken up and the frame tossed into the recycling pile.
Cheers
I was still able to ride that bike to the store and then back home. After that it was broken up and the frame tossed into the recycling pile.
Cheers
#11
Some Weirdo
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 502
Bikes: '86 Schwinn Prelude, '91 Scott Sawtooth, '73 Raleigh "Grand 3"
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times
in
92 Posts
I didn't notice anything wrong with this bike until I was riding it to the store late one night. I thought I had a rear tire flat when the bike started to squirm a bit. I stopped and felt the tire and it was hard. I then thought perhaps my rear rack was looses and I pulled it side to side. that's when I saw this.
I was still able to ride that bike to the store and then back home. After that it was broken up and the frame tossed into the recycling pile.
Cheers
I was still able to ride that bike to the store and then back home. After that it was broken up and the frame tossed into the recycling pile.
Cheers
__________________
Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot.
Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,149
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2361 Post(s)
Liked 1,745 Times
in
1,189 Posts
^^^^^ Bend 'em forward a bit, weld 'em onto the seat tube / top-tube, and you've got your own custom Hellenic / triple-triangle design.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,888
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4788 Post(s)
Liked 3,912 Times
in
2,544 Posts
If that's a frame you like, take to to someone like TiCycles and have a good, solid repair done. Call them. My bet, Dave will tell you it will take one afternoon, he'll do both sides, yo will have to look at more braze (which should have been there from the beginning) and the frame will need a paint job after. Dave told me that when I called with my early '80s TREK which had a crack running through the seatstay cap. He also told me if I looked closely I wold see cracks on the other side too. He was right. TiCycles is far from the only ones who do these repairs but they have done many and for them it is just another repair they know well.
So ask yourself - is this frame worth $600 to you? $400 for the repair, $200 for paint. Better than new. (Stronger. A touch less sexy.)
So ask yourself - is this frame worth $600 to you? $400 for the repair, $200 for paint. Better than new. (Stronger. A touch less sexy.)
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,888
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4788 Post(s)
Liked 3,912 Times
in
2,544 Posts
I didn't notice anything wrong with this bike until I was riding it to the store late one night. I thought I had a rear tire flat when the bike started to squirm a bit. I stopped and felt the tire and it was hard. I then thought perhaps my rear rack was looses and I pulled it side to side. that's when I saw this.
I was still able to ride that bike to the store and then back home. After that it was broken up and the frame tossed into the recycling pile.
Cheers
I was still able to ride that bike to the store and then back home. After that it was broken up and the frame tossed into the recycling pile.
Cheers
#15
Senior Member
Looks like it's probably cracked, but as already pointed out, you'll need to remove the paint to find out for sure.
Seatstays cracking or breaking at the seatcluster junction is one of a handful or relatively common failures seen on traditional steel frames. For reasons I never understood, it was widely believed that this joint has very little stress. As a consequence the area was often underbuilt. IMHO. The uncapped ends of those stays is a perfect example of this.
At any rate it's a relatively easy frame repair if you want to go that route. Obviously the paint will get torched.
Seatstays cracking or breaking at the seatcluster junction is one of a handful or relatively common failures seen on traditional steel frames. For reasons I never understood, it was widely believed that this joint has very little stress. As a consequence the area was often underbuilt. IMHO. The uncapped ends of those stays is a perfect example of this.
At any rate it's a relatively easy frame repair if you want to go that route. Obviously the paint will get torched.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I will try to explain what I found in my best English... the top of the seat stay tube is crimmed. It's not a separate piece. The part of the tube that's fastened to the frame is slowly getting ripped of.
I hope I'm making sense. This is not easily repaired. I would have to replace the whole seat stay. Even without the other crack that it has length wise.
here you can see the two parts of the crimmed seat stay. And how they are starting to separate.
I hope I'm making sense. This is not easily repaired. I would have to replace the whole seat stay. Even without the other crack that it has length wise.
here you can see the two parts of the crimmed seat stay. And how they are starting to separate.
#17
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,325
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3896 Post(s)
Liked 4,822 Times
in
2,226 Posts
I will try to explain what I found in my best English... the top of the seat stay tube is crimmed. It's not a separate piece. The part of the tube that's fastened to the frame is slowly getting ripped of.
I hope I'm making sense. This is not easily repaired. I would have to replace the whole seat stay. Even without the other crack that it has length wise.
here you can see the two parts of the crimmed seat stay. And how they are starting to separate.
I hope I'm making sense. This is not easily repaired. I would have to replace the whole seat stay. Even without the other crack that it has length wise.
here you can see the two parts of the crimmed seat stay. And how they are starting to separate.
edit: might cover the serial number, if that matters....
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Clean it and re-silver solder (make sure that a professional does this). My guess is that the frame is pretty special. Were the frame mine, I would do what I just suggested, repaint and keep an eye on it forever. If the crack does show up again, or the stay separates, you will, most likely, not crash but you just might have to walk home.
Question - is the frame something pretty special?
Question - is the frame something pretty special?
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
212 Posts
I don't think any steel has cracked here but either the braze joint has failed and the tube is separating from that shell, or it's just paint. If the joint has failed it can probably be brazed back in fairly easily. You could even attempt it yourself with a MAPP torch and silver "solder" if the alternative is to scrap the frame.
The other possibility is that after brazing the top of the seatstay wasn't quite flush with the shell and they basically smoothed it over with the paint and maybe that's all that's cracked. You will know more if you take some paint off. You could also put a screwdriver into the crack and pry on it a bit. If the SS moves relative to the lug then you have a failure. If it doesn't then you might not have a failure at all!
As for the other crack it may just be in the paint, but you'll find out if you take a bit of the paint off.
Last edited by guy153; 03-17-20 at 01:58 PM.
#20
Senior Member
I will try to explain what I found in my best English... the top of the seat stay tube is crimmed. It's not a separate piece. The part of the tube that's fastened to the frame is slowly getting ripped of.
I hope I'm making sense. This is not easily repaired. I would have to replace the whole seat stay. Even without the other crack that it has length wise.
here you can see the two parts of the crimmed seat stay. And how they are starting to separate.
I hope I'm making sense. This is not easily repaired. I would have to replace the whole seat stay. Even without the other crack that it has length wise.
here you can see the two parts of the crimmed seat stay. And how they are starting to separate.
IF that crack in the middle of the seatstay is in fact a crack, and not just in the paint, then the whole frame is probably toast. Replacing a whole seatstay is a big job, and there's still be the one on the other side to worry about. If it's just a paint crack I think the seatsay ends are worth fixing.
#21
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 10,997
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2192 Post(s)
Liked 4,580 Times
in
1,762 Posts
Before speculating any further, I suggest removing a bit of paint in both areas and see what's what. If it is only a paint problem, it's a trip to the "Gamma" and €10 for a small can of matching paint and Bob's your uncle. I think this frame at least deserves that.
#23
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 10,997
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2192 Post(s)
Liked 4,580 Times
in
1,762 Posts
That was quick!
Thank you for these pictures. I am no constructeur, and I'm having a hard time trying to understand what is going on here. It does look like a crack, but why? And why there?
Thank you for these pictures. I am no constructeur, and I'm having a hard time trying to understand what is going on here. It does look like a crack, but why? And why there?
#24
Senior Member
I was going to say it was just the "crimp" seams, until you showed the under the seat stay pictures.. that is definitely coming away from the seat cluster.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,826 Times
in
1,994 Posts
the seat stay top is of the "maximum deformation" type. the longitudinal crack under and along and not yet joined indicates a tube that was probably too brittle to begin with. The heat of brazing often anneals this - not this time. This type of construction is fast. Production oriented. The bike let's assume rides well. The options:
Find a substitute frame with as much of the same attributes, size, threading, seatpost diameter and swap things over.
Locate a framebuilder who will replace Both seat stays and bridge. You will end up with a different style of top eye. The design here really needs tooling and a stamping press to create. Not worth it.
The second route implies new paint, the frame repaint and time.
The decider is to what $ extent is the frame really wanted.
Find a substitute frame with as much of the same attributes, size, threading, seatpost diameter and swap things over.
Locate a framebuilder who will replace Both seat stays and bridge. You will end up with a different style of top eye. The design here really needs tooling and a stamping press to create. Not worth it.
The second route implies new paint, the frame repaint and time.
The decider is to what $ extent is the frame really wanted.