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Please help me understand gravel riding?

Old 09-14-20, 10:55 AM
  #101  
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Here in southern Denver we have the High Line Canal Trail which is 71 miles long (the first 35 of which is contiguous gravel, the 2nd half is paved) and is a completely segregated (except for a few road crossings) and tucked away MUP trail that winds its way from the rural openspace near Waterton Canyon, up thru the bedroom communities, and into the Denver Tech Center (DTC) where it changes from gravel to paved. The gravel section is easily manageable on a road bike with 28's, but would be better in the sandy sections with a gravel bike that has 32's+, and my mtb with 55's is overkill. Because its tucked away and mostly treelined, it's a great little getaway, especially in the heat of the summer, and without having to drive 30 miles south to get to dirt roads which are completely exposed, and have cars/trucks/farm vehicles to contend with.

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Old 09-14-20, 11:02 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Coherent, complete sentences are your friend.
Anyone reading w even a drop of intellect understands the post. Likely your of the type that gets all of your 'food' otta
the drive thru. Can you grip that one?
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Old 09-14-20, 11:07 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Aladin
Anyone reading w even a drop of intellect understands the post. Likely your of the type that gets all of your 'food' otta
the drive thru. Can you grip that one?
That's actually a huge improvement.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:18 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Coherent, complete sentences are your friend.
I think a coherent sentence killed his father...
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Old 09-14-20, 11:18 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
Yes, let's look at them. They aren't 23s.

They're 28s.
Ri-i-ight.

The modern road racing bike doesn't have wider tires, nor as much clearance.
That's a little hard to reconcile with many modern road racing bikes coming standard with 28s and clearance for 30-32s, not to mention disc brakes as opposed to the single pivot calipers we can easily see on most of the bikes in the pictures.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:22 AM
  #106  
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It's doing stuff like this :


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Old 09-14-20, 11:26 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
There are many great gravel routes in the Bay Area. Many include fire roads and singletrack which are best doe on a gravel bike. There are mixed-surface rides all over.
I believe you underestimate the importance of my believing this, lest I find myself needing to buy yet another bike. I'm already far too intrigued with the idea.

From where i live in San Mateo, a lot of where I'd want to ride on gravel is already a good road ride away. I think it would be a blast to spend some time exploring the dirt roads and trails on the west side of the Peninsula, and maybe I'll get to that eventually, but for now, I still really love pavement. That, and I don't have anywhere to park another bike in the garage!
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Old 09-14-20, 11:40 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
...I don't have anywhere to park another bike in the garage!
Inconceivable.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:41 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
Inconceivable.
You keep using that word.......

Seriously, the Canyon I bought in July has to be wedged in under the 3 hanging on the wall.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:43 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Seriously, the Canyon I bought in July has to be wedged in under the 3 hanging on the wall.
How the heck is a "canyon" not a gravel bike?
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Old 09-14-20, 11:49 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
You make multiple references to how unfortunate it is that higher level cycling is dipping its toe into gravel events. What is so bad about it?
Higher level cycling participating doesnt mean it gravel will be off limits to you and others.
If you're meaning signing up to actually participate in those events---you're wrong. It is a zero-sum. There's a set number of bibs available and when they're gone that is it. If 50 or 500 UCI racers want to ride--that is 50 or 500 fewer bibs for anyone else. Between that and inflated registration costs it drives the grassroots people out from participating who made it popular in the first place.

The big rides already require a lottery to sign up for because they crash BikeReg or any other service with people wanting to ride it.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:50 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
How the heck is a "canyon" not a gravel bike?
HA! Interestingly, Canyon actually do suggest the Endurace (like mine) for "light" gravel riding. I presume this means well-maintained dirt roads, and not rutted, rocky singletrack.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:19 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
Yes, gravel bikes are great tools for the mixed-surface rides that you describe.
You miss the point in your zeal to be right. My point is, the great gravel rides are already a good bike ride away, meaning I'd have to do what for me is a complete ride (including the return) to get to the start of the gravel bit. If I have to ride 25 miles to get there, I also have to ride 25 miles back, plus the gravel bit.

If I lived in Portola Valley or Woodside, then absolutely a gravel bike to ride the asphalt to the gravel and back would make perfect sense, since modern gravel bikes are simply modern road bikes with slightly larger clearance and slightly more relaxed geometries. And if I lived in Portola Valley or Woodside, I'd probably be wealthy enough not to flinch at buying another bike.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:25 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
Just because you're clueless, that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Jobst Brandt's favorite tire was the Avocet Road 20. They were 28mm tires.

Try again?
I note that you ignored it when I pointed out that most modern road racing bikes come with more than sufficient clearance for 28s. Indeed, some already come with 28s. So, saying you couldn't ride those roads with a modern racing bike because they won't take tires as big as Jobst Brandt used to use is clearly nonsense.

Try again?
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Old 09-14-20, 12:26 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Last year Gravel World's was asking for $100USD to ride. For 1 day. With NO support, no SAG, no wrenching. On open public roads. $100 got you a bib and a bit of swag, and that is it. Which is nuts. Dirty Kanza is worse.
That's crazy. I can do that for free.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:34 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by RGMN
I don't understand gravel riding. I don't understood why I should pack up my bike, drive 20-30 miles to gravel roads
Drive 20-30 miles to find gravel? That's cute. I just have to ride half a block from my house, then I could stay on gravel for miles.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:44 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
Drive 20-30 miles to find gravel? That's cute. I just have to ride half a block from my house, then I could stay on gravel for miles.
We don't all live where you live. If we did, there wouldn't be a gravel road half a block from your house.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:47 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
If you're meaning signing up to actually participate in those events---you're wrong. It is a zero-sum. There's a set number of bibs available and when they're gone that is it. If 50 or 500 UCI racers want to ride--that is 50 or 500 fewer bibs for anyone else. Between that and inflated registration costs it drives the grassroots people out from participating who made it popular in the first place.

The big rides already require a lottery to sign up for because they crash BikeReg or any other service with people wanting to ride it.
You're assuming UCI riders will be given preference for registration, so far race organizers have no such intentions and have told USAC/UCI to keep their noses out of gravel.

Several EF riders tackled DK200 last year and didn't win, nothing is guaranteed. If UCI can't get involved officially (i.e. - make money off of it), I don't see there being a huge influx of pros to the gravel scene.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:55 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
We don't all live where you live. If we did, there wouldn't be a gravel road half a block from your house.
And that's why I have a gravel bike.
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Old 09-14-20, 01:04 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
And that's why I have a gravel bike.
Exactly.
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Old 09-14-20, 01:16 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20
People will often spend the most on something they don’t need when they are confused. Sure, some riders need it but not the vast majority.
Your posts so far have made it abundantly clear that it is you who is confused. Whatever they may be, your personal, idiosyncratic, geography-based needs don't speak for the "vast majority." If you don't want or need a gravel bike, don't have one. But don't pretend to know the motivations and needs of others.

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Old 09-14-20, 02:00 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
Yeah, I ignored that because it depends on which "modern road racing bike" you use as your benchmark. The clearance varies by brand and model.

Again, even though you doubt/can't comprehend that the tires in those pictures aren't 23s, they are indeed 28s.

I won't ask you to try again. It would be pointless.
You know, I didn't pay much attention to new road bike tech from about 2008 until this year. The ONE THING that stands out as different? Wider tires and rims to accomodate them. Seems that during that 12 years, more and more riders were going to wider tires, so race bikes largely come with 25s with the clearance for 28s, and lots and lots of GP5000s are sold in 28mm. So saying that modern road racing bikes can't accomodate tires they plainly CAN accomodate is, as I said, nonsensical.

Just look at rims these days. Most of them are at least 17mm internal width and 21 is not uncommon. Canyon's ultimate is spec'd with 17mm rims and 25mm tires, and accomodates up to 32mm, per Canyon. So, again, modern road racing bikes can, and do accomodate tires of the same width you claim is necessary. Geometries, in terms of headtube angle, seattube angle, and fork rake are also probably similar.
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Old 09-14-20, 02:39 PM
  #123  
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28s are puny. Not even worth arguing over.

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Old 09-14-20, 02:55 PM
  #124  
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I hear the sound of goalposts moving.
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Old 09-14-20, 02:58 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
You know, I didn't pay much attention to new road bike tech from about 2008 until this year. The ONE THING that stands out as different? Wider tires and rims to accomodate them. Seems that during that 12 years, more and more riders were going to wider tires, so race bikes largely come with 25s with the clearance for 28s, and lots and lots of GP5000s are sold in 28mm. So saying that modern road racing bikes can't accomodate tires they plainly CAN accomodate is, as I said, nonsensical.

Just look at rims these days. Most of them are at least 17mm internal width and 21 is not uncommon. Canyon's ultimate is spec'd with 17mm rims and 25mm tires, and accomodates up to 32mm, per Canyon. So, again, modern road racing bikes can, and do accomodate tires of the same width you claim is necessary. Geometries, in terms of headtube angle, seattube angle, and fork rake are also probably similar.
IMO, what you are seeing over the past 10 years is the influence of Gravel bikes on road bikes. I do not think it is coincidence that we saw the emergence of “endurance road” with larger tire clearances and relaxed geo shortly after gravel bikes started taking off.
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