force10

My typical rides are 35-45 miles and frequently my feet (metatarsal area) start hurting at about mile 30. I try to route my rides to get most of the climbing done before the halfway point so it doesnt seem to correspond to the amount of effort I am applying to the pedals.

It seems to be less of an issue if I am more conscientious about my pedal stroke so I wonder if I am just getting a bit mentally and physically tired and losing focus on good form??

The issue arises both with my Fizik R4's (Look delta pedals) and Bontrager Evoke (spd) shoes. Irecently put new Profoot insoles in the spd shoes based on advice I've seen elsewhere on the forum and that seems to help some but I dont think they will fit in my road shoes.

AndrewJB

If you haven't already, try moving the cleats back as far as they will go.
I don't have experience with the shoes you have, but the Fizik R4 specs would seem to indicate a pretty stiff shoe already.
Seat height (too high) could be an contributing issue too.

Iride01 

Try a thinner sock or try a sock that give your foot a little bit of compression. Or maybe your shoe is just not correct for you. And I'd also go for moving your cleats further back.

woodcraft

More/ higher arch support is always worth trying.
The shoes flex less than your feet.
Taping pieces of bar tape or sheet cork to the underside of the insoles works well.

topflightpro

Cleats may be in the wrong place. You may need a shim to change the angle of your shoes. The shoes may be too tight. Your fit may be off. There are a lot of things that can be causing that pain.

force10

Thanks for all the input. I realize there are a lot of variables but the fact that I am experiencing the same issue across two different bikes using two different pairs of shoes made me wonder if there is a single common problem.

I have the cleats moved pretty far back in each case (a little behind the ball of the foot) but there is room to go back a little further.

force10

Can you elaborate on how high seat height might be a factor?

force10

Good point. I can probably add arch support without an entire insole.

CAT7RDR

+1 Find a medium arch insole with a metatarsal pad built into it. Worked wonders for me.

https://www.amazon.com/Sole-Performa...ef_=ast_sto_dp

AndrewJB

It could cause your foot to extend excessively on the down side of the pedal stroke, causing more stress in the metatarsal section of the foot.
That's a stretch (pun possibly intended), but I was just trying to cover some alternate possibilities

canklecat

I'm a big fan of the Profoot Miracle insoles, but they do take up space inside the shoe. I switched to thinner socks. No problems. On my snuggest fitting Scott Road Pro shoes with the Miracle insoles I needed to switch to socks that are as thin as t-shirt fabric. Feels great. Thicker socks actually caused more pressure points and discomfort, mostly along the tops of my smaller toes.

My Fizik shoes don't fit my narrow feet quite as well and I've combined the Profoot Miracle insole with a Dr Scholl's arch support (I don't recall whether it's progressive density foam like the Profoot, or gel), which helps.

stanion

When I hit a similar problem, I opened my anatomy book and saw that, when standing, the body supports its weight on the heal and metatarsals 1 and 5. My pedals were bearing my weight under metatarsals 2, 3, and 4, but not 1 and 5. On top of that, biking shoes are narrow (to improve aerodynamics?) and poorly ventilated. I fixed everything by installing my mountain-bike flat pedals, and putting on my well-ventilated zero-drop running shoes with big toe boxes. I could finally stand a ton while pedaling, and exceed 100 miles with no pain. I also felt better in general because I could now reposition my legs while cycling (like a few millimeters left or right, forward or back, on the pedals). This new setup didn't slow me down either (the opposite actually, since it eliminated foot pain!).

eduskator

Not sure this is a good idea. This will change your bike fitting & potentially result in knee injury / pain...

force10

I'm pretty sure this would solve the problem but it is what I am hoping to avoid having to do. Thx, though - it is definitely the center of the foot where I am having trouble.

fietsbob

Consider stiff arch supportive insoles?

regular pedals .. in your favorite shoes..

force10

In case case it assists someone else, I added some insoles for arch support to my SPD shoes (none would fit in my road shoes) and stopped wearing crocs around the house so much.

But what seems to have made the biggest difference is that I added a cadence sensor and concentrated on the pedal stroke. I think I must have been too high of a gear a lot of the time and was mashing unnecesarliy.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Carbonfiberboy 

I also find that my pedaling needs more of my attention when I get tired. I think that's universal. My fix is to concentrate on my heel cup. However I've never had hot foot with any shoe/pedal combination. Sounds like you got it fixed. It helps if saddle height gives you an almost level foot at the bottom of the stroke.

sfrider 

Metatarsal pain can be symptom of either overpronation or supination. If you have high arches it's possibly supination, if you tend more to a flat foot that collapses under weight you might overpronate. Either will stress the outside of the foot; supination because the very high arch prevents the foot from naturally rolling (pronate) slightly onto the inside; overpronation through compensation, by resisting excess roll, which shifts weight onto the outside of the foot. Symptoms can be very similar, and the go-to solution in either case is insole or cleat wedges. Forefoot wedges when cycling, heel wedges when running. Other symptoms of either is hitting the top bar with your knees, or wearing shoes predominantly on the outside, or having difficulty balancing on one foot - because of effectively having to balance on the outside of the foot.

JohnJ80

What's your cadence?

I had similar problems years ago and wound up spending a fortune on insoles and fiddling with cleat placement. What worked the best is after I got a power meter I realized that if I wanted to put out more power, I needed to increase my cadence. That had the side benefit of reducing the pressure on feet and knees on each revolution and subsequently my foot pain disappeared. My cadence had been around 60-70rpm and over the course of that year, I moved it up to about 80 and now to around 90 where I keep it now. I have not had foot problems since despite having significantly higher power output.

It all makes sense when you think about it. If I back the pressure on each pedal stroke back 20% but I increased the RPM by around 50%, I get a lot of added power at less constant average pressure on my feet.

Psimet2001 

It's actually one of the best moves anyone in pain can make. It's a well known secret among the bike tour circuit. many of their clients aren't really prepared to do the tour and end up with pain. The guides will usually loosen their cleats and slam them back all the way to get them through the rest of the tour without pain.

Also - getting the impression from the post that he doesn't have a fitting currently done. Still not a bad idea to slightly lower the saddle to compensate for the cleat move as long as there isn't any knee pain as well.

force10

Low/mid 70’s before. Low/mid 80s now. Maybe you missed my post from yesterday? In any event it confirms my findings.

JohnJ80

I did miss your later post. Shoe threads and saddle threads tend to be "I like this <fill in the blank>" which is totally worthless since everyone's anatomy is not the same. So I just replied.

I think this does confirm that your shoe doesn't fit. No surprise there if it feels cramped. I know how hard it is to fit shoes from my ski boot racing experience. 1 mm can make a giant difference, and so do good and correct insoles. But before you do any of that, you have to make sure your foot fits within the volume of the shoe properly.

Bear in mind, that if your foot is not anchored properly in the shoe and depending on your arches, as you apply pressure the arch can collapse and make the shoe not fit through the power stroke. So it's important to get the right insole with the right arch support to fill that space and make sure your arches don't collapse and you then slide around in the shoe. Often you slide forward and this can also lead to a cramped feeling as the foot moves forwards pressing the toes into the front while there is space on the side or behind the heel. Also, it's really common depending on anatomy, for this to happen to one side or the other. For me, this tends to be the outside of my feet. Remember that on the side and behind the heel 1mm can make a big difference - not so much in the front because you need to leave a little space there anyhow in proper fit.

I know how frustrating that can be especially since with most shoes, once you attach cleats, you own them.

J.