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Old 03-10-19, 03:52 AM
  #5501  
Minion1
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I've had a couple of videos from the Hong Kong six day pop up on my feed, and it looks like he's one of 4 sprinters there, racing for Russia. Not fast enough right now?
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Old 03-10-19, 04:25 AM
  #5502  
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While we're talking about gear bags...
What are you using to get your stuff to the infield? Currently I'm using a LL Bean canvas tote bag, but I'm looking for a backpack.
I'd like to fit my shoes, helmet, kit, gear bag and some misc tools and such. Being able to hold water bottles and strap a pump to it would be a plus.
I'm trying to get everything in one trip, and going hands free with this stuff would help a lot!
Thanks,
PI
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Old 03-10-19, 09:02 AM
  #5503  
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Originally Posted by Huskey
We don't drink either here, I've never actually see a fosters.
That's a relief, as both are pretty bad
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Old 03-10-19, 11:13 AM
  #5504  
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Originally Posted by 1incpa
While we're talking about gear bags...
What are you using to get your stuff to the infield? Currently I'm using a LL Bean canvas tote bag, but I'm looking for a backpack.
I'd like to fit my shoes, helmet, kit, gear bag and some misc tools and such. Being able to hold water bottles and strap a pump to it would be a plus.
I'm trying to get everything in one trip, and going hands free with this stuff would help a lot!
Thanks,
PI
Milwaukee Jobsite Backpack is what I would recommend. You can fit a helmet in the front pouch/flap (it's adjustable, and expands A LOT), tools in the Middle section, where there are 35 individual pockets, plus some space for a couple of small tool cases, as well as a fully loaded keirin tote. The back section has a padded laptop sleeve, but the overall section is about 4-5 inches deep, so would accommodate a pair of shoes and your riding clothes quite easily. There are also two side pockets that can hold water bottles. The front of the pack also has some MOLLE like loops that you could use to strap a pump to the pack. The backpack also has to zipper compartments, one on the outside, and one on the inside of the middle section. The one in the middle section is water resistant and spans the width of the pack. Good place for keys, wallet, phone, etc. It also has a molded plastic base, so the bag stands up on it's own and can be placed on wet ground without worrying of water soaking/ingessing into the bag.

It's a little pricey at ~$100, but will last forever. I have already been using this bag in a construction/industrial environment for my tools (53lbs when I last weighed it) for the last 5 years, and it barely looks used despite the abuse it's had to deal with. This will be my set-up come summer when I start going back to the track again.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...cks/48-22-8200

Last edited by taras0000; 03-10-19 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 03-10-19, 12:57 PM
  #5505  
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Thanks Taras! There are even a couple of stores near me that have it in stock! I'll check it out.
PI
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Old 03-10-19, 02:21 PM
  #5506  
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Originally Posted by 1incpa
While we're talking about gear bags...
What are you using to get your stuff to the infield? Currently I'm using a LL Bean canvas tote bag, but I'm looking for a backpack.
I'd like to fit my shoes, helmet, kit, gear bag and some misc tools and such. Being able to hold water bottles and strap a pump to it would be a plus.
I'm trying to get everything in one trip, and going hands free with this stuff would help a lot!
Thanks,
PI
a triathlon transition backpack works well for me - space for shoes, helmet, clothes, tools, bottles etc and there are different compartments and pockets so its not all jumbled together.
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Old 03-10-19, 03:48 PM
  #5507  
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Another thing I wouldn't have thought of!
thanks Zizou! I'll check them out.
PI
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Old 03-10-19, 05:19 PM
  #5508  
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Originally Posted by Huskey
We don't drink either here, I've never actually see a fosters.
Can confirm it isn't even made here, Manchester only I believe.

In topic the skin grows back bag is very good but not necessarily a budget item, you'll likely not have to buy another bag ever again so factor that in
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Old 03-10-19, 08:05 PM
  #5509  
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I'm thinking of having one custom made. There's a company here on Aus that makes a lot of different version of tool bags out of heavy duty vinyl. They actually advertise that they can make custom bags too. I'd be able to have the bag laid out exactly as I need. The question is if it ends up cost effective compared to what's on the market.
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Old 03-10-19, 10:09 PM
  #5510  
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Originally Posted by Huskey
The question is if it ends up cost effective compared to what's on the market.
In my experience in searching out custom gear makers, if you're going to have a one-off item made, it will cost you. I also found out that when it comes to custom made items, you will invariably find out that you would change one thing or another, or realize you forgot about something you wanted to incorporate. It's best to find a product that is quite similar to what you would design, use that, then figure out what changes you would make after you've used it for a while. The first go around tends to be sacrificial if you are looking to perfect something to your liking, so I wouldn't spend too much until you're ready to finalize your design.

I ended up doing exactly this with a tent I used this summer for a hike. I couldn't find something I liked, so I approached a manufacturer about making a test sample for me. I wanted a pyramid style tent, but wanted it to be 8 sided instead of the usual 4. This allowed me to move the inner mesh tent around the perimeter, to change how it was situated vs. the door. I purposely left it basic, omitting things like inner pockets for organizing small items out of the design because I couldn't figure out exactly how I wanted to incorporate those as well as other things. Now that I've used it on a solo trip, and had 7 days to think about these things, I know exactly what I want to do with my next design when it comes to making another pyramid tent, but I could only find those things out by using something that was close to what I thought I had wanted.
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Old 03-11-19, 01:25 AM
  #5511  
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Originally Posted by Huskey
I'm thinking of having one custom made. There's a company here on Aus that makes a lot of different version of tool bags out of heavy duty vinyl. They actually advertise that they can make custom bags too. I'd be able to have the bag laid out exactly as I need. The question is if it ends up cost effective compared to what's on the market.
Give these a look before you go that route, these are handmade in Aus and you can make changes to them if you know what you're after.
Track Bags
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Old 03-11-19, 03:46 AM
  #5512  
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Originally Posted by 1incpa
While we're talking about gear bags...
What are you using to get your stuff to the infield?
Though not hands free, when I was was racing biweekly I would make a single trip with the following - bike on one shoulder and sports bag with all my gear, track pump, rollers and double wheel bag all strapped on a lightweight folding trolley with 2 octopus straps identical the following. Worked a treat!

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tz8AAOSwuThbmLu5/s-l400.jpg
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Old 03-11-19, 05:50 AM
  #5513  
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Can anybody give me a brief rundown on time trial position rules with particular attention as to how they pertain to the "praying mantis position"
I know the end of the extensions must be within 10cm of the height of the center of the arm pads.
I know saddle 5cm behind bottom bracket or use an exception.
I know extensions must be within 5cm of the front axle.
I know bike can be 75cm from the bottom bracket or up to 80cm with an exception. Or has that changed?

Is there anything out there related to forearm angle that's actually in the rules?

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Old 03-11-19, 06:27 AM
  #5514  
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There was a rule that said forearms had to be horizontal. Seems that's out the window.
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Old 03-11-19, 06:54 AM
  #5515  
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I think the pad angle is now 15deg, could be wrong though. We've got a workshop in a few weeks time with Dan from the Huub team, I'm hoping to check out the regs as he'll know them inside out. BTW, someone recently has said to me that if your saddle is more than 5cm behind the BB you then gain that amount on the 75cm from BB to bar ends, not sure about that though.
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Old 03-11-19, 07:47 AM
  #5516  
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@Poppit You get one exemption for free, no questions asked. How this works out practically is either your saddle is at 0cm behind the BB and you get 75cm reach, or your saddle is -5cm behind the bottom bracket and you get 80cm reach. (IF you are very tall you can get an extra reach exemption that is separate from those) If you are at -3cm setback, they consider that taking the 0cm exemption, so bars must be a 75cm. If you're at -8cm setback, you get the 80cm reach, but not 83cm.
@Baby Puke the rider is never measured with the bike (besides the height if you ask for that exemption) so arm angle is no longer a measurement taken.
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Old 03-11-19, 07:56 AM
  #5517  
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Originally Posted by theblackbullet
Can anybody give me a brief rundown on time trial position rules with particular attention as to how they pertain to the "praying mantis position"
I know the end of the extensions must be within 10cm of the height of the center of the arm pads.
I know saddle 5cm behind bottom bracket or use an exception.
I know extensions must be within 5cm of the front axle.
I know bike can be 75cm from the bottom bracket or up to 80cm with an exception. Or has that changed?

Is there anything out there related to forearm angle that's actually in the rules?
Ok, the 5cm from the front axle doesn't pertain to pursuit. (with aerobars)
As above, you can take the 80cm exemption if you have your saddle at -5cm setback

the only measurements that directly matter for praying mantis is the 15° pad angle and the 10cm from middle pad to extension tip.
So when they lay a level on your pads, they must measure at 15° maximum (JUST THE PADS/CUPS, not extensions)
Then they measure from the mid point of your cups (with the foam pads very often fully compressed. The best practice is to remove the pads entirely when you measure at home, then you'll have a few mm of wiggle room) to the tip of your extensions (highest point) that gap must be 10cm or less. This is to discourage the Mantis position

The way to get around that is to push the pads further and further up the arm, which closes that 10cm (You can see Archibalds pads are very far up his arms, closing in on his wrists, as opposed to a more "normal" position closer to the elbows) - he's "virtually" riding with much higher extensions than what is measured. If his pads were in a more "normal" place, he'd be at something like 20-25cm pad to bar tip.

The downside to this is that it's very uncomfortable for most people to be able to ride like that for any period of time. Obviously it can be done though.
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Old 03-11-19, 08:40 AM
  #5518  
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Awesome! Thanks that clears up a lot! Is there anything concrete on the additional length past 80cm? I am 6'4" with a long torso and would love to utilize any reach I can get.
I am comfortably at 5cm behind bb with my saddle

Last edited by theblackbullet; 03-11-19 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 03-11-19, 08:55 AM
  #5519  
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@theblackbullet Yes sorry I should have expanded on that

For riders that are 190 cm tall or taller, the horizontal distance between the vertical lines passing through the bottom bracket axle and the extremity of the handlebar extensions including all accessories may be extended to 85 cm.

I *think* (none of the athletes I have worked with have been tall enough for me to have looked too deeply) you must still be -5cm behind the bb to take this extra exemption. (Which is against what I wrote above, sorry) so if you're tall enough, (I think over 6'2 should be) -5 / 85cm
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Old 03-11-19, 09:02 AM
  #5520  
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Originally Posted by Morelock
@theblackbullet Yes sorry I should have expanded on that

For riders that are 190 cm tall or taller, the horizontal distance between the vertical lines passing through the bottom bracket axle and the extremity of the handlebar extensions including all accessories may be extended to 85 cm.

I *think* (none of the athletes I have worked with have been tall enough for me to have looked too deeply) you must still be -5cm behind the bb to take this extra exemption. (Which is against what I wrote above, sorry) so if you're tall enough, (I think over 6'2 should be) -5 / 85cm
excellent. Thanks for the clarification
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Old 03-11-19, 09:08 AM
  #5521  
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*it's also worth mentioning, if you are going to be checked at any point, it would be time well spent to study the technical clarification guide (on the UCI's website) and be ready to plead your case when they fail you on something. Comm's are human and not always totally caught up on the game. I've had to argue with the -5/80cm twice (in both cases the comm was still trying to measure the athlete, around the time the rules were changed to no longer need that and to allow one exemption no matter what)

You may still get hit with having to make a change right before your start, but you at least have a chance if you've measured things yourself and know the rules. (I was helping an athlete for Pro Nat TT last year, her bike was small enough we could only just get it back far enough to be at 0 behind the bb, we moved her bars to 75cm, and at bike check we still had to plead that they let her start, as they measured it a couple of mm past 0 setback. There was literally no way for us to go further back besides a different saddle - which she didn't have - or hacking the nose of the saddle off. Fortunately they overlooked it)
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Old 03-11-19, 12:16 PM
  #5522  
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Originally Posted by Poppit
I think the pad angle is now 15deg, could be wrong though. We've got a workshop in a few weeks time with Dan from the Huub team, I'm hoping to check out the regs as he'll know them inside out. BTW, someone recently has said to me that if your saddle is more than 5cm behind the BB you then gain that amount on the 75cm from BB to bar ends, not sure about that though.
Piggy will absolutely know them in and out as he's pretty well responsible for the new wave of clarifications and has the letters to prove it 😂

Originally Posted by Morelock
*it's also worth mentioning, if you are going to be checked at any point, it would be time well spent to study the technical clarification guide (on the UCI's website) and be ready to plead your case when they fail you on something. Comm's are human and not always totally caught up on the game. I've had to argue with the -5/80cm twice (in both cases the comm was still trying to measure the athlete, around the time the rules were changed to no longer need that and to allow one exemption no matter what)

You may still get hit with having to make a change right before your start, but you at least have a chance if you've measured things yourself and know the rules. (I was helping an athlete for Pro Nat TT last year, her bike was small enough we could only just get it back far enough to be at 0 behind the bb, we moved her bars to 75cm, and at bike check we still had to plead that they let her start, as they measured it a couple of mm past 0 setback. There was literally no way for us to go further back besides a different saddle - which she didn't have - or hacking the nose of the saddle off. Fortunately they overlooked it)
Solid advice. I remember @carleton also mentioning specifically to get the most senior com to check over the bike apart from the official checks and get them to sign off/agree your setup. It's all well and good to be the best kind of correct: technically, but if the rule implementers don't agree you're up against it.

I know I'll be up against it when I setup some aero bars at a long armed 189cm
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Old 03-11-19, 01:26 PM
  #5523  
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Going back to the bag discussion, I tried a Zoot Triathlon bag last year. It was great for carrying a lot of stuff, but in practicality, it wasn't great for the track. The way it opened was kind of a clam shell design, so it took up a lot of space at the track - I guess tri people like things all spread out.

I ended up selling it and getting an Ogio Endurance 9.0, which is a duffel with backpack straps. I like it a lot.
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Old 03-12-19, 04:49 AM
  #5524  
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Thanks Dalai! I see a bunch of guys with that setup at T-Town. It does work, but not what I'm looking for.
If you get there after the gate closes, there are lots of steps to get over the bridge. A cart is kind of cumbersome on the stairs.

Thanks topflightpro! I'll give the Ogio bag a look.

PI
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Old 03-12-19, 02:22 PM
  #5525  
carleton
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I used a Camelbak military spec backpack. I took out the water bladder. I would load it with the track sack (with chainrings and cogs and small parts), then tools, clothes, shoes, numbers, pins, pens, snacks, water bottles, etc... would go into the rest of the bag. I would clip 1 or 2 helmets to the outside of the bag using D-rings. Then I'd hike it on to my shoulders and my hands would be free to walk/carry the bike.

So, I'd have bag on back, race wheels strapped across my chest using a long strap, then bike in hand walking it (or on shoulder if in parking lot). The other hand would be free...for signing autographs


...lol j/k...I was actually signing checks to pay guys to make me look good in races

Last edited by carleton; 03-12-19 at 02:26 PM.
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