BBassett

I just pull the panner covers off and go about my business and then replace them the next day when it's grey and wet out. They get washed but not until it's necessary.

The White river flows into the Puyallup rive. When the snows melt on Mt. Rainier the rive overflows and this is what you get.



This was just pas the point that I wouldhave turned around... of course





Time to clean the drive train?

djb

stuff like that really is the worst case scenario for a drivetrain, and I could see how a belt drive would be pretty darn nice to have in gunge like that.

waddo

Before buying my Ortlieb, which as I said I do not like--weight, material, no pockets--I spent a long time searching. Wife got Axiom. Apart from the shoulder strap, they are better than Ortlieb; but the company has zero customer service and I would not buy them again. The thing I discovered is that compared to backpacks, the world of panniers is extremely limited and almost shockingly there seems to be no interest in lightweight models. I pack fro touring the same way I do for hiking, which means choosing carefully what I actually need and always buying lightweight gear. Aside from the fan club Ortlieb seems to have, I don't understand why people think the total weight of their touring bike is not important. As I live in Japan and spend hours riding up endless mountains, weight is a primary concern.

BBassett

I don't think my frame is able to keep enough belt tension but I am having someone look into it. I'd love to be able to forget about the GD chain. And yes that was about the woste possible scenario for a chain, maybe volcanic ash would be worse, fire-n-brimstone maybe.

fietsbob

Plus is lighter than the classic fabric .
and now they have a pocketed organizer to go in the bags ,

or you get a sewn bag with pockets then add a rain cover..

Robert Beckman is making the best of the organized divider featuring bags..

I bough the Beckman Bruce Gordon Rbag Rack pairing in the 80's ..

then they had a falling out, became competitors, recently Bruce retired..






..

BBassett

I use a mid-drive on my suspended touring bike and often ride with between 150 and 200 lbs. spread out on the bike and a single wheel suspended trailer. The most I have had to carry on my back was 90 lbs and that was in the military. I never carry more than 50 lbs. when hiking/backpacking, but I also don't have a pressurized shower or water-heater, let alone an electric water heater. Of course, weight matters but I carry more than triple what I will on my back. Something that I never do, other than a bota-bag, is carry something on my back when I ride. Back to panniers... lightweight isn't always the way to go and panniers is a perfect example of that. I use a Cuben Fiber tarp that is amazing but a small branch that would never have got through silnylon pierced it like wax-paper. I have banged and dragged my front panniers more times than I like to admit. Once I had my over-filled bar bag hop off the ******g bike at 20+ mph. and watch it tumble in slow motion down to the trail and off the side. Durability is more important than lightweight. But just like you, I'm waiting for someone to make Dyneema panniers. The same stuff they make sailboat sails out of. I believe weight is the primary concern too, anybody that rides a bike for real feels the same way, it's just less of a concern when using a mid-drive. I don't live in Iowa or Florida either as far as climbing.

This was a good climb:
25 Jul 20 - Mowich Lake
https://www.relive.cc/view/v8qkd2LGdKv
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hRSTYZ8UjzdpuQ7n8

P.S. You pointed out the "zero customer service" and made me think of how Arkel treated me. As I said stated I have been hard on my bar-bag. It's been pushed to its limits on load capacity and weight many, many times... well, always. I have had to reinforce the interior frame some. Because of my heavy use the mounting hardware springs that are designed to stop the bag from bunny-hopping off the front of your bike needed to be replaced. I called, sent some pics and they sent me two replacements no charge for parts of postage. That, in addition to the fact that I found exactly what I wanted in their huge selection of panniers, and their guarantee... what more can you ask for? One thing... I would like to see them make bar-bag covers in something other than Atomic Neon Bile.

Stay safe.

indyfabz

1. Is Beckman still making gear? Last time I looked, his stuff was ridiculously expensive. My set of racks and four panniers was over $900–back in 1998. Great stuff. I still have the bags, but they in 2010 someone stole the racks along with the bike they were attached to, and the bags only fit his racks.

2. Bruce Gordon passed away last year:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pet...ies-at-71/amp/

Trevtassie

One thing about the vinyl or vinyl equivalent bags like the Ortliebs is the ease of patching holes with clear repair tape. I've got holes in the bottom of my front ones from banging into curbs, especially in Japan where curbs can be high for snowploughs. A bit of repair tape on each side and they're fixed.
I have lightened my ortiliebs a bit by replacing the backing stiffener with thin coreflute. I didn't do it for that reason, I needed to move the hooks to suit the Tubus Duo racks I have. I patched the old holes with vinyl repair tape.

Tourist in MSN

Why do the bags not fit other racks? Can that be fixed?

For example, a friend of mine had some cheap Performance brand (Transit?) panniers, he needed to move one hook on each and the hooks were riveted on. Drilled them out, patched the holes, drilled new holes and used bolts. Drilling out rivets produces a lot of heat, I do not know if he just did it real slow or used ice or what, but it can be done. Care is needed to avoid melting anything.

indyfabz

The locking system and placement of the hooks are the issue. His racks from my time had swinging brackets on the top rails. Each bracket was secured by two M5 or M4 bolts. The top of each pannier had three hooks on the back and a few lower down. You put a bag on a rack, swing the bracket over the middle hook of the pannier and tighten the bolts. Made it impossible for the bag to ever come off unless the hooks broke away from the bag. Loved that feature, which also prevented snatch and grabs.

In theory, I could have someone drill through the aluminum stiffners and reposition the hooks to line up with the bars of my current Nitto Big racks. But then I would need someone fashion brackets and add bottle brazeons to the top rails in order to accommodate the bolts. Maybe I will get off my lazy but this winner and pay a visit to Bilenky or another local frame builder (former Bilenky employee) to explore the possibility. The local guy who built my road frame could likely do all this with ease, but between building bikes, running a LBS and being a family man, he is swamped. Maybe I will raise the subject with him in case business has dropped off due to the pandemic. I know he's supposed to start building my ex a frame next month.

The bags themselves are really cool. Lots of compartmentalization. There are even some dividers that you can unzip to create one large space. The fronts have large, mesh outer "pockets" that are great for drying things. However, they are not waterproof like Ortliebs, so you are wise to use the rain covers, which I also still have.

After typing all that, I found this photo of the type of rear rack I had on a BF thread asking for the ID of the maker:






You can see the what I tried to describe on the top rail. In addition to hooks for the top rail, each bag has hooks that fit down snug over the bottom two rails.

Below is a photo of the front rack, also from the same BF thread. Mine was the same except that by the time I purchased mine he had stopped making them to accommodate both mid and high level front pannier positions, so mine did not have the bolts on the top rails.

Tourist in MSN

Looks like a nice system, I can see why you would like to make it function again.

timdow

What about Arkel Dry-Lites?

fietsbob

My set used buckles & straps to pull the bag hooks down firmly on the rack tubes...

making a no shake, no bungee bounce off, solid fitting..

BBassett

That's why a fully suspended bike with a front rack that mounts to the fork crown and steerer tube rather than the fork slides is so nice.

fietsbob

Yea but Tubus racks stopped making those a few years ago.. the 'Swing'

(Unable to predict the users ability to mount it safely, on a ever-changing variety of suspension fork's crowns)

So, now you hire one custom or be lucky on eBay ..


You bought one?

L134 

His website is still up: Robert Beckman Designs - Home

It is a fun read if nothing else. I’ve used his bags on two one week GDMBR tours and am extremely happy with them. The first week was part of an ACA tour. There were 13 of us and, as I recall, 3 people had various pannier mounting problems which were solved. All were Ortliebs. The bags I have are not particularly light.

I think I once found that beckman makes this adapter for other racks:



Photo also shows how his mounting system works. It is very secure.



Other than walking maybe 25 yards once because the low riders were too low for some truck ruts, I never felt disadvantaged by this setup off road.

cyccommute 

Bikepacking cages that mount on the fork are an improvement over the Tubus Swing. The Salsa Anything bag and cages have reasonable capacity...11 L for two bags. They aren’t the same volume as a set of front panniers (typically 20 L) but I’m not sure I would the weight that 20L can hold on a Tubus Swing.

I use Topeak Versa mounts for clamping them to a suspension fork

fietsbob

Koga Of NL, modified a specific suspension fork to take a tubus low rider rack..




A machined aluminum block fits over a boss on the fork lower casting, to mount the top rail onto..


Lower mounting bolt , threaded into fork ..

Tourist in MSN

I met a gal six years ago that was on a long tour, she had had her Tubus Swing repaired several times because it could not be replaced.

She had an air suspension fork. From my motorcycle days, I recall that the best handling was to minimize your un-sprung weight and get as much of your weight as possible on the part of the bike that the suspension supported. The Tubus Swing was the only front bicycle rack I had ever seen that did that. You can see it on the front of her bike. The red Front Roller panniers (one on the ground, one on the bench) went on the Swing. Pair of Front Rollers is 25 liters.

Tourist in MSN

On my expedition bike I am using some Axiom front racks that I added support braces to, those racks mount my front panniers up about three or four inches higher than standard low rider rack does, thus my front ground clearance is similar to rear ground clearance.

djb

Tim, they are nice panniers but he wants bigger ones, Dry-lites are a bit fragile and are a bit of a pain to take on off quickly cuz of the velcro. I own a pair.

BBassett

I have a FAIV Hoogar rack: https://photos.app.goo.gl/P8XjRUzg8mzy3kx86

BBassett

Fast on/off is really more important than most think.