vintagerando

I bought a used bike with tubulars. The tires look fairly new. I removed one with plans to just throw out the tires the bike came with. Should I reuse these tires? They look brand new. (Please see photos.).
I researched installing them. I am confused. Do you install both tape and glue? Many of the videos and instructions on the web indicate to just use glue. The tires on my bike have a layer of cotton tape and also glue. Advice appreciated.

vintagerando

Follow up Post:
I inflated the tire in the above photo the other night.It seemed to have lost some air over night. So, I just submerged the tire in water in the tub. It leaks around the inflation valve. Can that be repaired? Or should I just junk these tires? It seems like that are could be sealed with glue.

FastJake

Challenge tires, nice! They look brand new, definitely reuse them. You use tape OR glue, not both. I think most people only use glue. I've never used the tape after hearing too many horror stories. There should be tons of info if you search... but here's my quick procedure:

- Layer of glue on the cotton base tape (tire) and the rim.
- Let dry for a few minutes, until it doesn't draw strings when touched.
- Second layer of glue on both.
- Let dry same as before.
- Mount tire to rim. This is the hard part... You'll probably do a lousy job your first few times. The problem is that the glue is pressure sensitive and wants to attack itself and not let go once the tire and rim touch. You have maybe a minute to get the tire where you want it before it becomes incredibly difficult to move. You want it on the rim straight and round.
- Let glue dry for 24 hours before riding.

FastJake

Better tubular tires like these will probably use latex tubes which will lose air overnight due to the material. If it's leaking by the valve, check the core. It might be loose or you might not have enough air in the tire to keep it shut. You can also replace the core.

vintagerando

Thanks,FastJake....you always have great advice. But what is the "core"?

vintagerando

The "cotton base tape"....there was white cotton layer that I removed from the tire. You can see its missing in the photos. Do I need to replace that white cotton tape ?It did not appear to be part of the tire.

79pmooney

Pump the tires up hard (110 psi) and see how long they hold pressure. 6 hours later you certainly should have 100 psi. (The fact that you are seeing bubbling doesn't sound good to me, but give it a try anyway.) If there is a leak, bubbling will always occur at the valve and any cuts through the casing. If there is no bubbling elsewhere, see if you can hear the air hissing out somewhere besides at the valve. That would be the problem. Mark the casing there for future reference. Those tires look to be in excellent shape and are good quality. Someone will want to fix them if you don't.

Ben

vintagerando

The bike I am discussing is my new Peter Mooney!! Very excited. The air is coming out of just around the valve. Can this be repaired?

79pmooney

I missed that. (Edit: We are out of phase. I was responding to your issue with the base tape a post back.) Yes, you need that tape on the tire! If you haven't pulled the other tire off, make sure the tape stays on the tire, not the rim. Research tubular repair forums to see how to re-glue the base tape. I've never done it.

If you do re-glue it, I suggest not using that tire(s) for your first rides. Get some other new tires and start learning to glue and getting a feeling for how hard it is to remove the glued tires. Then you will have a better feeling as to whether you trust your re-glue. (Every professional racing tire has hand glues base tape or at least did for the first half century. Its very doable. But you don't want to be riding the tire that peels off.)

Not trying to scare you. Just want to make sure you learn what you need before you make a beginner's mistake that ruins it for you. Sew-ups, done right, are the ride to die for. And, again, done right, are by far the safest rubber to be on when you flat on a mountain descent going h*** for leather.

And edit again: try my advice above and see how long they stay at pressure.

Ben

Ronsonic 

Most decent sewups now have replaceable / removable valve cores. Those will leak if not screwed on tightly. They can also just be leaky. Remove it, put a couple wraps of teflon plumbing tape around it (carefully and snip off the excess) and reinstall more tightly.

FastJake

Thanks! Google "presta valve core." It's the little (sometimes) removable part of the valve that lets the air in and out. It's screwed into the valve stem. If it's not tight, it will leak. This is pretty common.

Are you sure? I'm not sure what you removed, but the tires look fine to me in the pictures. That's how they should look when you mount them. Do not remove the base tape, which is seen in the photos as a white layer with a dotted line down the center.

Just a quick note on this - NEVER do this unless the tire is mounted on a rim. You can do it "dry" with no glue, but make sure the tire is fully seated on a rim before inflating it. You can inflate tubulars firm when not mounted, but don't go above ~10psi or they will start to form weird shapes. I'm fairly sure you can destroy a tire this way.

Homebrew01

The leak may be elsewhere, but the bubbles migrate and come out at the opening of the base tape.

You could try sealant.

In addition to Fastjake's gluing method: mount the tire on the rim at 110 for a day to stretch it for easier mounting.
After mounting, pump up half way, and center the tire as needed. Spin slowly to check. It won't be as even looking as a clincher, but good enough.

Slash5

I'm no tubular tire expert but this could be an indication of a tube hole/leak - the air leaking from the tube can travel in the tire casing and come out at the valve opening in the casing. It may have nothing to do with the valve.

JohnDThompson 

No, it won't destroy the tire, but it can make the base tape come loose, which is a PITA.

Re: the apparent leak: if the bubbles are coming out of the stem itself, it could be the core. If they're coming out at the base of the stem, where it come through the base tape it could be a leak where the stem is vulcanized into the tube, or elsewhere with the air just finding the hole in the bast tape at the stem the easiest exit point. If the leak is at the base of the stem, it need a new tube, which can be installed by e.g. "Tire Alert."

HillRider

Two recommendations:

1.Put the tubular tires and their wheels on Craigslist.
2.Use the money you get to help pay for good clincher wheels and tires.

Live happily ever after.

Homebrew01

Not a bad option. I only bother with tubulars for racing.

DiabloScott

Welcome to the wonderful world of tubulars. Your mere existence will annoy a certain segment of the cycling world

Bubbles from inside the tire probably indicate tube cracks near the valve stem... pretty hard to fix that, this tire might be trash, but you could try some sealant.

A tubular will fit JUST FINE on a clincher rim (not for riding, just for stretching and inspection) so if you've got a spare wheel see for yourself - install it on the clincher rim, get it all straightened out, and then inflate it to max pressure to stretch it before you attempt gluing it on your tubular rim.

woodcraft

I don't see any glue on your tire,

and the base tape is intact (it is covering the stitching as in 'sew-up'),

so the white tape that you removed was presumably adhesive installation tape.



If the tire doesn't hold air,

it could be a puncture- which can show up as leaking at the base of the valve as already noted,

or loose valve core as noted.

If the tire is older, has been sitting around, & especially with sealant added,

the latex tube can rot out at the base of the valve. This cannot be repaired except by replacing the tube entirely (post #17 ).

Did the tire hold air before you took it off?

These are inexpensive tires, so not worth putting a lot saving them.



If you want to give tubulars a shot, I suggest:

- Buy two new Tufo tires online (since you need a spare to carry along).

- Watch u-tube videos about how to mount with glue, & follow the simplest, least obsessive method.

- Remove the other tire, & glue everything (tires and rims),

- Mount the two new tires, & keep the pre-glued Volcano as the spare.

- Get a vintage wool jersey to complete the classic look.

vintagerando

The air is coming out the base of the presta valve stem. Would that mean its the tube leaking not the valve? Right?

woodcraft

Yes.

79pmooney

If you are riding tubulars and carrying a spare, you can give it to someone on clinchers who is struck and they CAN ride their bike home.

I had known that for years when I rode around Mt Diablo with a friend from the Athena School. It was spur of the moment and not well planned. He was riding his old racing bike, tubulars. I was riding clinchers. Early on, my mis-planning lead to my tube and patch kit falling from my seat, wedging themselves Between the wheel and seatstay, destroying the tube and the skid ground through much of my tire. We pushed on. He died on Morgan Territory. I pushed him. On the descent, he laid the bike down on the fast turn. We continued. My rear wheel gave up. By this time it was getting late and the light low. As we did not know if he could physically get back to the school and his car, he gave me his rear wheel and car keys and I gave him my rear wheel and patch kit. I pushed on, got to the car in good shape, drove back and caught up to him about mid way. He was riding the tubular on my clincher wheel and it rode fine.

We laugh to this day of that ride. Comedy of errors!

The cool thing about tubulars - they WILL WORK on any rim, any time. No amount of damage to the rim will prevent them from working (as long as they are still remotely a wheel). Rim type doesn't matter (as long as it is 700c). Stick is nice, but not essential, just be really careful cornering.

Ben

dabac

I think you got lucky.
I've used tubulars a fair amount on hookless 630 mm rims, and IME they'll slide and tear the valve out if mounted w/o any preparation.

Sluggo

This is an excellent description of the process, but you left out the last step:
-Use a rag and some nasty toxic solvent (acetone or xylene) to clean the excess glue off the braking surface of the rim--this is not just for looks, it's for safety. Throw away the shirt and pants you were wearing because the glue will never come out.

And BTW, I think the leg-shaving tradition began when racers discovered that shaving was the only solution to sew-up glue on hairy legs.

fietsbob

& Get more rims, to inflate & stretch tires for a while, before you mount them ..

FastJake

Good advice, but some of us are too far down the rabbit hole! Lured by the price and availability of (vintage) lightweight tubular rims I have way too many wheelsets to give up on them. I do like clinchers though too.

I've never done this but it's a good idea. Glue left on the rim turns into a nasty black mess after getting pummeled by the brake pads. But eventually it goes away.