Umettt

Hello fellow steel enthusiasts,

I got a new frame from a befriended vintage bike store who is also taking care of repainting and rebuilding it.
Unfortunately he didn't know who build the frame, all he knew was that it's a French frame made out of Reynolds steel (assuming 631, which I kind of doubt..?).
I was hoping to find somebody on this wonderful forum who knows more about french steel frames/bikes than me and could maybe help me identify the model.

what I currently know:

- Simplex dropouts
- Reynolds steel (531? 631?)
- should be a French frame
- I have seen the lugs on Japanese Everest frame (mady by Agratti) and French Lejeune bikes
- the fork from the photos is not original

Thanks in advance! Any help is appreciated.

Umettt

Here are the (unfortunately) only photos I have:

bikemig 

How do you know it's French? Have you measured the BB width? Are there any markings on the BB (those sometimes identify the threading)? Do you know the seatpost diameter?

Those are later generation simplex drop outs. I can't see the drive side drop out but it should be threaded with a stop so you can run pretty much any rear derailleur on it.

Looks like a nice bike but likely 531 not 631 if it's Reynolds.

juvela

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Lug pattern is BOCAMA Competition 76 with cutout number R4.

Too bad brake bridge has been crushed.

Doubt fork original. Fork ends have eyelets whilst dropouts do not. Frankish makers "usually" key steerers with a flat rather than a rectangular keyway. Are frame ends from same maker front & rear?

Date appears close to '79.

MauriceMoss shall no doubt be able to enlighten...

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himespau 

Is there reason to believe that the Basso logos are fakes?

Umettt

That's the problem. I don't have any info on the tubing measurements... he assumed it is French because of the Simplex dropouts.
And yeah, I was thinking the same, I doubted that it's 631.

Wow yeah, they fit perfectly. I stumbled upon Bocama lugs while doing my research but all the ones I found with the R4 cutouts were shorter than the ones on this frame.
Yes, as mentioned, the fork is not original, since they have eyelets unlike the dropouts. The fork ends don't have any stamp, so not sure about the maker.
But thanks! that's a huge improvement to the information I had already.

Umettt

Haha funny you ask. The Basso font logo is printed on paper and is taped on the frame with sellotape.

unworthy1

"...assumed it is French because of the Simplex dropouts.", and that's another clue that the Basso fake decals would be fakes, even if they were real decals and not fake-fakes! The treatmant of the stay-caps plus he lugs used should be the best clues, UNLESS you have a serial number to add into the mix? Tubing-wise most likely would NOT be 631 but could be (metric) 531 or even metric Columbus but will be hard to determine that unless you can find a fait stamp on one of the tubes. Have your shop determine the seatpost size, let us know..

steve sumner

the swaged seatstay "cap" with deep crease is very French. the shift cable routing above the BB
says 1978 or earlier.

Umettt

little update:

I found this promising brochure of Kalkhoff bikes from 1981. There is a model with Bocama lugs, Simplex dropouts and 531C steel, the cable routing for the brakes fits my frame and no sign of eyelets.

juvela

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congratulations on digging so deeply; that is some serious excavation!

does not appear that seat stay treatment on bicycles in brohcure is the same as yours but then the res is not high enough to be definitive...

btw -

Kalkhoff has always built to BSC standard.

you have not as yet let us know the threading and tubing diameters of your frame.

the seat stay treatment is its most gaulique feature.

while Kalkhoff is an actual manufacturer of bicycles have not before seen any from them anywhere as nice as the machines illustrated in the brochure. this makes me wonder if perhaps they may represent contract work done by another maker. no hard information; just a possibility to keep in mind.

the brake cable guides on your frame look like they may be GIPIEMME.


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non-fixie 

Interesting. The combination of French and Italian frame parts suggests a non-Italian as well as a non-French builder.

Chombi1 

Yup, the Simplex dropouts and domed stay ends points to it being most likely a French bike. But who knows, it could also be Swiss, where bikes can have "crossover" nationalities when it comes to components and frame parts....

Umettt

yes, I know! I am also keen to know but the frame is still in the hands of the shop for the repaint.. it should be done end of the week! Ass soon as the paintjob is done I will find out the diameters and upload new photos if anyone is interested in seeing the refurbished frame

in other news i found a thread in a Gitane forum from 2010 with someone having the exact same frame just with different Bocama cutouts but with Campa dropouts instead of Simplex and his father had it custom made in a small french shop in '79
​​​Not really assuming that this is a real option on this frame but one might never know

Umettt

Update on the frame - new colour!
hope to find some more answers in a few days when I see the frame in real life

Hudson308 

Very nice!!! I'm assuming by the type of masking tape that you had it powder coated?

Wileyone 

I had a 50's Flying Scot that used Simplex drops and fork ends. But this bike is not a Scot.

juvela

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...looks very fine!

slightly surprised you did not address deforamtion of brake bridge and bottom bracket cable guide prior to sending it to painter

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one benefit of locating actual maker, should you be able to do so, will be an opportunity to see what OEM fork looked like...

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Umettt

The brake bridge i dont see as a big problem.
The bottom cable guide I didn't even realise until you mentioned it... :/
The problem is when the owner showed me the frame he was in a hurry and told me its perfect for the chrome lugs paintjob i had in my mind. Afterwards he sent me the photos from the first post where I noticed the crushed bridge...

The cable guide gives me some thoughts now.. do you think its gonna be a big problem?

juvela

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at first glance the gear cable guide simply appears to be splayed a bit outward at the front

upon closer inspection it appears there may be a possibility it is torsioned in a clockwise direction as seen from the rear

you have not as yet mentioned if painting is conventional spray paint or powder coating

if powder coating, you might get a crack in the finish (not the metal) if you cold set the guide back into position powder achieves its scratch resistance partially be being more brittle than spray paint

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with reference to the BOCAMA Competition 76 lug pattern discussed earlier here is the illustration from the manufacturer -




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Wileyone 

This frame is too nice to powder coat.

Umettt

Thanks for the brochure! love it! I checked the lugs, they have a BCM stamp on them, so Bocama for sure.
Also checked the bottom bracket in the shop, it's BSA. Didn't have time to check the seatpost... gotta have to do it when the shop is done.
The rear spacing is 126mm.

The paintjob looks amazing in real life! the lugs are still not done though. They transitions will be get a little fix by hand because they aren't perfect yet and the teardrops in the lugs are getting black paint matching to the frame.
Excuse the bad photos, my phone is not the best. The frame looks better in real life.

Umettt

The bike is done. Thanks for all the helps, I gave up looking for answers. The Rino seatpost diameter is 26,4mm, to answer the remaining question.

Looks like a dream and rides like a dream (IMO).