Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

What makes a bike a "climbing" bike?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

What makes a bike a "climbing" bike?

Old 07-15-20, 01:48 PM
  #1  
rbrides
Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
rbrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Triangle NC
Posts: 336

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked 32 Times in 28 Posts
What makes a bike a "climbing" bike?

The new TREK SL6 PRO has a drive train of 52/36 chain rings and rear cassette with max 30T gear. That is a 1.2 ratio. They market it as "This upgrade makes it a worthy choice for any ride, from sprints on your local roads to pro stage races to hill climbing competitions." That just seems like not as low a ratio by today's standards for climbing. Maybe 1.2 is well suited for younger, lighter weight riders but is seems underwhelming to me. I'm currently on a bike with a 48/32 chain rings and cassette with 34T for a .94 ratio.

What are typical gear ratios for climbing these days?
rbrides is offline  
Old 07-15-20, 02:57 PM
  #2  
GlennR
On Your Left
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times in 1,187 Posts
I have a Emonda SLR with a compact crank (50/34) and a 11-28 cassette. While i've not ridden the Aps but what I have ridden i've not had to walk up yet.
GlennR is offline  
Likes For GlennR:
Old 07-15-20, 03:01 PM
  #3  
wolfchild
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times in 1,286 Posts
The rider is what makes the bike a climbing bike, it's all about the rider.
wolfchild is offline  
Likes For wolfchild:
Old 07-15-20, 03:22 PM
  #4  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,063
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18322 Post(s)
Liked 15,303 Times in 7,232 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild
The rider is what makes the bike a climbing bike, it's all about the rider.
That and the hidden motor. 😀
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 07-15-20, 03:25 PM
  #5  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,261
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1971 Post(s)
Liked 1,297 Times in 629 Posts
Originally Posted by rbrides
The new TREK SL6 PRO has a drive train of 52/36 chain rings and rear cassette with max 30T gear. That is a 1.2 ratio. They market it as "This upgrade makes it a worthy choice for any ride, from sprints on your local roads to pro stage races to hill climbing competitions." That just seems like not as low a ratio by today's standards for climbing. Maybe 1.2 is well suited for younger, lighter weight riders but is seems underwhelming to me. I'm currently on a bike with a 48/32 chain rings and cassette with 34T for a .94 ratio.

What are typical gear ratios for climbing these days?
In a road context, "climbing bike" doesn't refer to the gear ratios, it's a marketing term to distinguish framesets that are less optimized toward aerodynamics than "aero bikes." This tends to result in them being lighter, and especially when aero road frames were a very immature technology, could perhaps lend them advantages in how they felt to ride.

As far as what's typical, who cares? Use whatever gears you have use for. Different riders in different terrain have vastly different needs.
HTupolev is offline  
Likes For HTupolev:
Old 07-15-20, 04:15 PM
  #6  
thehammerdog
Senior Member
 
thehammerdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NWNJ
Posts: 3,704

Bikes: Road bike is a Carbon Bianchi C2C & Grandis (1980's), Gary Fisher Mt Bike, Trek Tandem & Mongoose SS MTB circa 1992.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times in 226 Posts
the rider
thehammerdog is offline  
Likes For thehammerdog:
Old 07-15-20, 04:20 PM
  #7  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,768
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,875 Times in 4,639 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild
The rider is what makes the bike a climbing bike, it's all about the rider.
This. I have friends who use SS bikes for gravel races that have over 100' of climbing per mile average, with grades over 20%. And they clear the climbs, even though I sometimes get off and push my 11sp bike with its 31-34 low gear.
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 07-15-20, 04:37 PM
  #8  
AlgarveCycling
Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times in 163 Posts
My hill climb PR's, and by that I mean long, steep gradient climbs, are all from riding my 5.8kg Wilier, a bike with aero wheels and forks but otherwise optimised only for weight reduction. It accelerates very quickly albeit not a great bike for powerful sprints but great for climbing; super stiff, ultra responsive.

It is a very different ride with a night and day feel compared to my heavier aero bike with which I definitely sprint and TT better on; Strava times prove this. While obviously the engine is the single most important aspect of cycling, it is false to claim that the bike itself makes no difference. Like most, I am demonstrably faster on a lighter bike than a heavier, aero bike on steep, long climbs local to me - circa 6 - 20+%, 8 - 24km. Same engine, different bikes, each optimised for different goals. The time differences aren't big, they are small, sometimes down to a second or two, sometimes nearly a minute. Enough to make a difference if you chase such fine margins.

​I have a compact 50/34 on both, as is my preference nowadays.
AlgarveCycling is offline  
Likes For AlgarveCycling:
Old 07-15-20, 04:42 PM
  #9  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
I like this story. He looked at that year's upcoming hill climb circuit, looked at Strava data of those routes, and determined he could be competative with a fixie. Built a custom fixie for that specific set of hill climb races.


The moral is, optimal gearing depends on the course.
tyrion is offline  
Likes For tyrion:
Old 07-15-20, 05:07 PM
  #10  
DeadGrandpa
Senior Member
 
DeadGrandpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Carolina
Posts: 1,210

Bikes: Too many, yet not enough.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 491 Post(s)
Liked 307 Times in 198 Posts
I don't like the 50/34 compact crank for climbing. The 46/30 sub compact crank isn't much better, and I run a 10-42 cassette. The 30T front chain ring paired with the 42T cassette low gear will enable most hill climbs even with luggage, but transitioning from the small chain ring to the large chain ring, downshifting the cassette, is a bit problematic when going uphill. I have bikes with 1x11, 30T or 32T chain ring and 11-46 cassette or more recently, 9-46 cassette. 1x11 or 1x12 and a big cassette is what you need, IMHO.

If you visit flatland, bring a 42T chain ring and a longer chain.
DeadGrandpa is offline  
Likes For DeadGrandpa:
Old 07-15-20, 05:10 PM
  #11  
CAT7RDR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 2,084

Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 811 Post(s)
Liked 1,947 Times in 937 Posts
Fresh legs always make my bikes better climbers.
CAT7RDR is offline  
Likes For CAT7RDR:
Old 07-15-20, 08:38 PM
  #12  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,768
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,875 Times in 4,639 Posts
All you people who are writing about gearing are ignoring a crucial element: gradient.

I used to do some big climbing events in Colorado, where I rode them quite well with 53-39 in front and 12-25 in back. Out there, the grades tend to be lower and the climbs longer, so taller gears work fine.

Now I live in western Pennsylvania, where the climbs are shorter but very very steep - I’ve climbed a hill that has a max grade of 37%. Lower gears are essential.
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 07-15-20, 08:49 PM
  #13  
ofajen
Cheerfully low end
 
ofajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,965
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 642 Post(s)
Liked 1,040 Times in 663 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
All you people who are writing about gearing are ignoring a crucial element: gradient.

I used to do some big climbing events in Colorado, where I rode them quite well with 53-39 in front and 12-25 in back. Out there, the grades tend to be lower and the climbs longer, so taller gears work fine.

Now I live in western Pennsylvania, where the climbs are shorter but very very steep - I’ve climbed a hill that has a max grade of 37%. Lower gears are essential.
Yeah, I’ve been in Pennsylvania. Serious hills! We have some steep ones here, especially the close ones tumbling to the Missouri River, but maximum surface relief of maybe 200 feet. My low ratios on both bikes are 1.5 and there are some hills that beat me up, but at least they are over after at worst five minutes.

My favorites are the nice steady grades at 5-6%. Those I can just attack and finish off at decent speed and not need much recovery. But yeah the grade matters!

Otto
ofajen is offline  
Likes For ofajen:
Old 07-15-20, 08:57 PM
  #14  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,555
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 841 Times in 475 Posts
In my mid 20s I climbed fast. Won a couple hill climbs, did well at a lot of steep races. My bike was 53/39 and 11-23 most of the time. I had a "climbing" cog at 12-25 I'd occasionally run, like if it was crazy steep. I borrowed a 12-27 that everyone was talking about and hated it. Too low.

Fast forward 15 years. I have gained one pound I think. But boy have I lost some muscle and lungs. My road bike is 50/34 and 12-30. It's very low and excellent climbing. I don't think I'd want to go lower for a road bike.

My gravel is 40x42 at the lowest but when you factor in much bigger tires, it's only a few gear inches less than the road bike. I'd love to try 36x42 with a 10 tooth high cog. It's very cost prohibitive on my build to do that though.

My vintage Spectrum has 53/42 and 13-24 6 speed. I'm not sure it was ever considered a climber, but I use every gear on every ride. That's pretty cool.

I have a local monster, 3500' in 8 miles. 3000 in the first 5. I've been up it with a mountain bike at 20 GI, a gravel at 26GI, and road at 30GI. The speed is approximately 8 minutes faster with each bike. Probably due to the weight, 18, 22, and 26 lbs, not the gearing.
rosefarts is offline  
Likes For rosefarts:
Old 07-16-20, 04:44 AM
  #15  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by thehammerdog
the rider
In the context of the bike I'm gonna disagree. Given the same rider and gear train, a bike that is a lb lighter than another bike is the climbing bike. This is why GCN and others compare aero bikes and "climbing bikes."
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:
Old 07-16-20, 07:31 AM
  #16  
ofajen
Cheerfully low end
 
ofajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,965
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 642 Post(s)
Liked 1,040 Times in 663 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19
In the context of the bike I'm gonna disagree. Given the same rider and gear train, a bike that is a lb lighter than another bike is the climbing bike. This is why GCN and others compare aero bikes and "climbing bikes."
Yeah, the gravity term is giMs (the product of gravity, incline, total mass and riding speed).

Uphill this term dominates, so extra weight on the bike makes a difference proportional to the increase in total mass of cycle and rider.

So in my case with roughly 200 pounds of cycle and rider, every pound is about a 0.5% difference.

I guess I would add, though that if you are climbing at 15 mph, aero resistance might still matter at some comparable level of variation so it may not be fully negligible. I’ve never done any calculation on that sort of thing.

Otto
ofajen is offline  
Old 07-16-20, 08:40 AM
  #17  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
When I was younger I had a bike with a 52-36 crank I used on hilly countryside rides...

Then when taking self supported tours I put a triple crank on ..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 07-16-20, 09:04 AM
  #18  
Phil_gretz
Zip tie Karen
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,006

Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times in 806 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild
The rider is what makes the bike a climbing bike, it's all about the rider.
^this is really it. No bike will make you a better climber. Only you can make yourself a better climber. It's hard work. Lose every ounce that you don't need on your body.

Now, for any particular rider, there will be certain bikes that climb faster. What are the factors? Weight and fit. Tires. Wheels. Gearing would be low on the list.
Phil_gretz is offline  
Old 07-16-20, 09:41 AM
  #19  
REDMASTA
Senior Member
 
REDMASTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Traveling through time, will return last week.
Posts: 730

Bikes: Bare Rum Sword Knuckle Runner

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 64 Posts
the hill
REDMASTA is offline  
Likes For REDMASTA:
Old 07-16-20, 09:45 AM
  #20  
AlgarveCycling
Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times in 163 Posts
Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
^this is really it. No bike will make you a better climber. Only you can make yourself a better climber. It's hard work. Lose every ounce that you don't need on your body.

Now, for any particular rider, there will be certain bikes that climb faster. What are the factors? Weight and fit. Tires. Wheels. Gearing would be low on the list.

It stands to reason that the stronger and fitter you are, the better/faster you will be - this applies to pretty much anything. The discussion is about the bikes themselves, not human engine fitness/strength/diet programmes. The human engine is not the subject here - we have to take it as read that the engine is the same engine but that the bikes are different and if one is a better climber or not than another.

The answer is that specific bikes can make you a better climber in terms of time against the clock. A lighter, more aero bike ridden by the same person will result in a faster time than if that same person rode a heavier, less aero machine - assuming same gearing too, to suit the ability of the human engine. Ergo, the former is a better climbing bike. Naturally, the time gains will vary too according to engine ability and this also equates to how much of a benefit the climbing bike can offer.
AlgarveCycling is offline  
Likes For AlgarveCycling:
Old 07-16-20, 10:57 AM
  #21  
friday1970
Senior Member
 
friday1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Brighton, Michigan
Posts: 658

Bikes: Optima Baron LR, '14 Nishiki Maricopa,'87 Trek 330 Elance, '89 Miyata 1400, '85 Peugeot PGN10, '04 Fuji Ace, '06 Giant Rincon, '95 Giant Allegre, '83 Trek 620, '86 Schwinn High Sierra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked 162 Times in 106 Posts
Originally Posted by ofajen
Yeah, I’ve been in Pennsylvania. Serious hills!
Earlier this year, I took a trip to Ohioplye and mapped a loop to Salisbury with a dip into Maryland using local roads.
I wont lie. It was the hardest 89 miles of my life. 10K+ft of climbing. I thought my 18bs 34tx28t bike would handle the hills. For the first couple climbs, to include Sugarloaf Rd, my legs and gearing worked fine. But then it was hill after hill, after hill, after hill, after......
After the climb south of Salisbury and the start of my climb into Grantsville, I had become completely demoralized.

I think I would have had a much easier time with my triple crankset aluminum bike running a 30t chainring and a 32t cassette.
friday1970 is offline  
Likes For friday1970:
Old 07-17-20, 02:11 PM
  #22  
rbrides
Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
rbrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Triangle NC
Posts: 336

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked 32 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by AlgarveCycling
It stands to reason that the stronger and fitter you are, the better/faster you will be - this applies to pretty much anything. The discussion is about the bikes themselves, not human engine fitness/strength/diet programmes. The human engine is not the subject here - we have to take it as read that the engine is the same engine but that the bikes are different and if one is a better climber or not than another.

The answer is that specific bikes can make you a better climber in terms of time against the clock. A lighter, more aero bike ridden by the same person will result in a faster time than if that same person rode a heavier, less aero machine - assuming same gearing too, to suit the ability of the human engine. Ergo, the former is a better climbing bike. Naturally, the time gains will vary too according to engine ability and this also equates to how much of a benefit the climbing bike can offer.
Thanks for "getting" it. And thanks for your reply.
rbrides is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 07:06 PM
  #23  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,280

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4254 Post(s)
Liked 3,867 Times in 2,580 Posts
Does it go up a hill? Climbing bike.

On a more serious note, it tends to be a bike that is lighter weight and has maybe easier gears for getting up hills. Less about aerodynamic gains and more about weight.

For the British hill climbing stuff it tends to be as light as possible and fit within the rules. Some people eschew bar tape and cut down bars and things like that to make it as light as possible as they don't need to follow UCI ruling. I have heard of people using track tubulars which are super light and not puncture resistant for that. For non-fixed bikes I believe you need two brakes and for fixed bikes you only need one with the rear wheel acting as a "brake"
Here is some info on one BHC bike:
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/p...ll-climb-bike/
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 07-17-20, 08:08 PM
  #24  
u235
Senior Member
 
u235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
All you people who are writing about gearing are ignoring a crucial element: gradient.

I used to do some big climbing events in Colorado, where I rode them quite well with 53-39 in front and 12-25 in back. Out there, the grades tend to be lower and the climbs longer, so taller gears work fine.

Now I live in western Pennsylvania, where the climbs are shorter but very very steep - I’ve climbed a hill that has a max grade of 37%. Lower gears are essential.

Grew up there. Lived on steep brick road that cars would spin on in the rain. I had a 46/14 single speed and you just got out of the saddle a lot. That was MANY years ago.

Last edited by u235; 07-17-20 at 08:15 PM.
u235 is offline  
Likes For u235:
Old 07-17-20, 09:24 PM
  #25  
Slasharoo
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 32

Bikes: Orbea Onyx, Surly Disc Trucker, Trek 850

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 11 Posts
As in everything, hill climbing is very personal. You have to fit the bike/gearing to the rider and the hill. There are physiologically gifted climbers. They will have a different set up than a roulleur. There are different hills. That will help decide your gearing. The main constant will probably always be weight.
Slasharoo is offline  
Likes For Slasharoo:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.