walking disease

Hi all,

I bought an old (2000?) titanium Mongoose Pro RX 10.9 on CL recently, with a full Chorus groupset. I rode it for a week or so and the shifting felt great most of the time, but every so often I'd hear a click. Usually if I shifted down or up, then back to the gear I wanted it went away. Over the weekend I decided I'd better just readjust the derailleur and hopefully sort it out. In that process I realized there are only 8 cogs on the cassette, but it's 9 speed derailleur (and the chain ring says 10 speed?). My knowledge of this stuff goes about as far as Youtube tutorials, so I have no idea if this is a real problem or not? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

P!N20

So are your shifters 8 or 9 speed?

walking disease

Oh yeah, sorry, 9 speed shifters.

conspiratemus1

The seller has sold you a defective bicycle. He ought to have been aware that it had mismatched components. I would seek satisfaction. This can be made to work only with a substantial outlay of cash and effort on your part. If you’re lucky, he has the correct 9-speed wheel in his basement and is just waiting for your call.

P.S. The ?10-sp chainrings don’t matter.

P!N20

So I'm assuming the cassette/rear hub is an 8 speed unit and not a 9 speed unit that's missing a cog? (Eg; spaced out to work with the 9 speed stuff.)

I'm surprised it's shifting OK - 8 and 9 speed Campy had different cog spacings; 5mm and 4.55mm respectively.

conspiratemus1

What colour are the spacers? Black = 8-sp, Amber = 9-sp.
The freehub body you can’t see without taking the cassette off, but 8-sp are black-brown steel with shallow splines. 9-sp. are aluminum alloy, the usual silvery colour, with deep (3-4 mm) splines.

walking disease

Black spacers. So seems P!N20 is correct, and it's an 8 speed cassette.

And I'll need to take the cassette off to figure out if I need a new free hub as well.

Is there a possibility it's a 9 speed free hub?

walking disease

A couple pictures, if helpful.

Thanks so much for your help on this.

P!N20

There was a Record 8 speed hub with alloy spline, but this isn't one of them.

Unlikely, everything seems to be pointing to an 8 speed hub. Firstly, you can't put 8 speed cogs on a 9 speed spline, the spline depths and spacings are different, and I can't think of a situation where you would exclude one cog from your 9 speed cassette to run 8 speed, when everything else is 9 speed compatible.

conspiratemus1

8-sp sprockets can (I think) be slipped onto a 9-sp freehub but the shallow splines will gouge into the alloy carrier and ruin it. Let’s hope the previous owner has not done that. If you look down behind the largest sprocket you should be able to see the flange or shelf of the freehub that the sprocket rests against: black steel vs. silver alloy.

If you are going to remove the cassette, use only a Campag lockring tool. Shimano pattern looks like it would fit but will strip under torque.

For practical purposes you cannot transplant a 9-sp freehub onto an 8-sp hub the way you can with Shimano. Modern 9-11 sp bodies require a larger axle and early-model 9’s that would fit still require a spacer to sit correctly on the axle.

That’s why you need to seek redress from the seller.

You could sand down the spacers so tha spacing equals the 4.45 mm for 9-sp but this is difficult to do accurately. Remember the sprockets are 0.2 mm thicker than 9-sp so the spacers have to be that much thinner than a normal 9-sp. Spacers from a 10-sp. cassette would work if you could source them. Even one would give a template for sanding yours. You would need a 9-sp chain, doesn’t have to be Campag.

walking disease

If I don't go for the sanded down spacer hack, am I looking at a whole new freehub, and cassette to get everything working as intended? Will the frame take a 9 speed hub, or is it spaced incorrectly? Or do I need to replace the shifter/derailleur with an 8 speed?

Given that it (somehow?) seems to be shifting fine, would I be putting a higher degree of wear on the other drivetrain components if I continue to ride it as is? Or at risk of a catastrophic failure?

walking disease

Here is a picture from the backside of the biggest sprocket. Flange of the freehub appears to be black, so I guess good that it's not an 8 speed cassette shoved on a 9 speed freehub.

conspiratemus1

Excellent photo, like your others. Can you post some of the rear shifter, from a few different angles? Your options depend on the age of the 9-sp. shifter.
Riding it as-is won’t break anything except maybe wear out the derailer pulleys faster from misalignment. Depending on how you’re riding it, missed shifts could be dangerous or just a nuisance. But it’s annoying and just not right. People you ride with will hear it clattering like a Crown & Anchor wheel at a midway and wonder why Campag gear would sound like that.

CyclingFool95 

If you are keeping the bike, and want to resolve things, the easiest/cheapest might be to pick up a 9/10/11 speed Campy wheel and 9 speed cassette. The 10 speed crankset might (should) not be an issue if you are running a 9 speed chain. An 8 speed chain might be pushing things a bit. As speeds went up, the outside width of chains (and spacing between rings) decreased, but the inside width is a constant.

walking disease

Thank you. And thank you again for your help. Here are some further pictures.

walking disease

I've also noticed that when I shift and hear a clicking from the rear derailleur, if I do ~half press on the shifter it makes a micro adjustment on the derailleur and the alignment is fixed. Not sure if that's a feature of the shifter, or a little hack I stumbled upon?

walking disease

Awesome. Makes sense. Ty!

walking disease

I'm looking at what's available in my area to get a sense of how much I'm going to need to spend to swap the wheel and cassette. This may be a dumb question, but want to make sure I don't end up with more mismatched parts... I found a Campy wheelset listed as having a 10/11 speed hub. I wrote the guy asking if it's 9/10/11 or only 10/11 and he said he's only ever run 10/11 on it, so isn't sure. It appears to be a Shamal Black 16-HPW laced to Record hubs (images below). Can you (or anyone else) tell by looking at the hub if it's 9 speed compatible? And if so, any tips on how to tell the difference so I can know what to look for?

CyclingFool95 

That should be 9/10/11/12 compatible. There are a few Campy wheels out there that are 9/10 only (I've heard, for example, that the Electron does not work with 11). But, I don't think I've heard of a 10/11 speed wheel not supporting 9.

conspiratemus1

For sure any freehub capable of 10-sp will take a 9-speed cassette no problem. If this wheel is within your budget it is definitely the way to go and is a better grade of Campag than what’s on the bike now. All 9- and higher wheels will fit into your frame at the same 130 mm spacing as for 8-speed.

9-sp cassettes are getting scarce and will likely be Veloce level. This is fine as the sprockets are the same as the fancier ones that were riveted to a carrier to save weight. You will need a lockring as well. Really the seller should include one that fits that freehub as there are two sizes out there. They aren’t typically supplied with the cassette, even new in box.

9-sp. chain for sure. I’ve used SRAM and Wipperman as well as Campag.

Your shifters are “pre-2001”. This is not an issue for the wheel you are considering buying as long as you keep that (really nice!) rear derailer. It can be an issue if you get trying to mix and match later on. Just keep that info in your back pocket.

walking disease

Awesome. Ty everyone! Looks like I have a path forward now at least.

conspiratemus1

Yay!

Two more picky points:

The wheel for sale does not seem to have the original Campagnolo quick-release, rather some generic external-cam jobbie. High-end skewers, often removed from wheels by sellers and sold separately, can go for >$50 so keep this in mind in talking price.

The two lock-rings are less than a millimetre different in threading diameter. Too big and it won't start, too small and it drops in without engaging. For this more recent hub that knows about 10- and 11-sp, you probably want the ring that says "UD 9/10 type". A ring for an early hub will just say 12T 13T 14T [compatible smallest sprocket] without mentioning 9-speed. Whatever, make sure the lock ring you get will start to thread in with fingers and you'll be OK.

walking disease

Just for posterity, and/or if anyone is interested, this story has a happy ending! I reached out to the seller about the discrepancy, he said he didn't realize the wheels had an eight speed cassette and told me to come back by to meet him. He swapped out the Mavic CXP21s laced to unknown Campy hubs with an 8 speed cassette for a set of Protons with a 9 speed cassette. Gonna grab a new 9 speed chain tomorrow and hopefully now all is smooth sailing. Thanks everyone again for your help!

tricky 

Awesome! Gotta love a happy ending and a seller with integrity.

Ex Pres 

I have a set of Protons and they've been trouble-free. BUT, it can be interesting removing and replacing some brands of tires. You might want to check this before you get out on the road and have a flat. Better to have a proper tool if you need it.