Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Cables for mechanical disc brakes?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Cables for mechanical disc brakes?

Old 08-14-20, 07:43 AM
  #1  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,224
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 214 Posts
Cables for mechanical disc brakes?

So I have TRP spyres and they've never been great. Low brake "power" and a somewhat mushy lever feel. I changed cables to compression less cables from Wiggle, the Life line brand. Now they are firmer, but there appear to be a lot of friction in the cables and thus a very firm lever squeeze is required to stop. I just about had it with these brakes.

Any recommendations. Im thinking other, better cables but what kind?
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 07:48 AM
  #2  
leob1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Middle of the road, NJ
Posts: 3,137
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 292 Post(s)
Liked 106 Times in 69 Posts
Did you change the cables or just the housing?
I'd switch to Jagwire compressionless housing and new die drawn cables.
leob1 is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 07:52 AM
  #3  
andrewclaus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Golden, CO and Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,822

Bikes: 2016 Fuji Tread, 1983 Trek 520

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 669 Post(s)
Liked 725 Times in 422 Posts
I've seen a couple lately with the housings way too long, with an extra bend. I removed 6" off the front and 3" off the rear of one bike recently, for a great improvement.

Do the levers match the calipers (road for road, mtn for mtn)?
andrewclaus is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 07:56 AM
  #4  
Pop N Wood
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,379

Bikes: 1982 Bianchi Sport SX, Rayleigh Tamland 1, Rans V-Rex recumbent, Fuji MTB, 80's Cannondale MTB with BBSHD ebike motor

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 667 Post(s)
Liked 529 Times in 355 Posts
Jagwires.

But I don't know that it is your cables. The whole point of compressionless cables is to get rid of the lever flex that comes from compressing the cable housings. Brakes should go from off to on with very little movement. Just like using stainless wrapped brake hoses on a car.

sounds to me like you need some better pads. I like kool stop pads with my spyres. Make sure your rotors are clean as well. Deglaze them with a sander using fine grit garnet sandpaper.
Pop N Wood is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 08:00 AM
  #5  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,224
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by leob1
Did you change the cables or just the housing?
I'd switch to Jagwire compressionless housing and new die drawn cables.
Both. The inner is extra smooth, but none the less it appear to have a more friction than the old cable with coating.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 08:04 AM
  #6  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,224
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by andrewclaus
I've seen a couple lately with the housings way too long, with an extra bend. I removed 6" off the front and 3" off the rear of one bike recently, for a great improvement.

Do the levers match the calipers (road for road, mtn for mtn)?
The cable is as short as can be. The length in the package was barely enough. The bike has Tiagra road brifters and post mount calipers. Im not aware TRP makes any distinction between road or mtb.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 08:10 AM
  #7  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,224
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by Pop N Wood
Jagwires.

But I don't know that it is your cables. The whole point of compressionless cables is to get rid of the lever flex that comes from compressing the cable housings. Brakes should go from off to on with very little movement. Just like using stainless wrapped brake hoses on a car.

sounds to me like you need some better pads. I like kool stop pads with my spyres. Make sure your rotors are clean as well. Deglaze them with a sander using fine grit garnet sandpaper.
Possibly better pads would help*, but even getting the pads to touch the disc feels unusually stiff. Thats why I get the impression the cables has more than normal friction. Im Inclined to try out the road pro kit from Jagwire, but its expensive and id like some confirmation that its actually good before spending more money and more time tinkering with those damned brakes.

*I already did try other pads. TRP stock is semi metallic. I tried Shimano organic. Stopping is about the same but the organics squeal a bit less. No revolution tho.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 08-14-20 at 08:17 AM.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 08:16 AM
  #8  
Pop N Wood
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,379

Bikes: 1982 Bianchi Sport SX, Rayleigh Tamland 1, Rans V-Rex recumbent, Fuji MTB, 80's Cannondale MTB with BBSHD ebike motor

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 667 Post(s)
Liked 529 Times in 355 Posts
Every bike I own gets jagwire cables. Lots of other people will say the same. I used to get a set of brake cables and housings for $21, notice they are now $27.

BTW I love my TRP Spyres. I do find if I don't ride them for some time they seem to lose braking grip.
Pop N Wood is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 08:19 AM
  #9  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,224
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by Pop N Wood
Every bike I own gets jagwire cables. Lots of other people will say the same. I used to get a set of brake cables and housings for $21, notice they are now $27.

BTW I love my TRP Spyres. I do find if I don't ride them for some time they seem to lose braking grip.
Jaqwire has several different brake cables. What kind?
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 09:16 AM
  #10  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
Die redrawn cables, take 1 more step. the finished cable is pulled through a die flattening the round wires on the outside.
this would be don off the bulk spool , before fixing the head, & hot cutting to length..

In a bike shop we get reels of cables. for repairs & individual (no individual packaging) sales .

Other part , housing , low compression uses same bundle of wires on end as indexed shift housing,
but adds a kevlar braided sheath embedded in the plastic around it to resist the spike forces. braking creates.

In the US Jagwire is carried by QBP.. thru B&M dealers & online retail.





...
fietsbob is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 01:55 PM
  #11  
Pop N Wood
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,379

Bikes: 1982 Bianchi Sport SX, Rayleigh Tamland 1, Rans V-Rex recumbent, Fuji MTB, 80's Cannondale MTB with BBSHD ebike motor

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 667 Post(s)
Liked 529 Times in 355 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Jaqwire has several different brake cables. What kind?
This is the last set I ordered
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Pop N Wood is offline  
Old 08-14-20, 04:05 PM
  #12  
dsaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 712 Post(s)
Liked 793 Times in 471 Posts
This is the stuff I use. https://www.amazon.com/Jagwire-Compr...s%2C158&sr=8-2

I'm sure you don't need 10 meters, but that is the correct housing. I just use Jagwire stainless cables with it.

I have the Spyres on 2 bikes and they are an impressive cable disc brake. Much better than the Shimano cable discs I have on my road bike bike and as good as the SRAM hydraulic brakes on another bike. (yeah, I have a lot of bikes)
dsaul is offline  
Old 08-15-20, 03:44 AM
  #13  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,224
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 214 Posts
Thanks. KEB-SL is the housing that is in the PRO brake kit as well.

Did you have any issues with excessive stiffness. The housing I got from wiggle is VERY stiff and and a real faff to bend in shape for under the tape mount on a drop bar.

The PRO kit comes with two pieces of ordinary brake housing for those first few inches that has a tight radius, but im not sure how to replicate the splice between the the ordinary and compressionless housing, except for buying the kit. ??
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-15-20, 07:22 AM
  #14  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,092 Times in 2,325 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
So I have TRP spyres and they've never been great. Low brake "power" and a somewhat mushy lever feel. I changed cables to compression less cables from Wiggle, the Life line brand. Now they are firmer, but there appear to be a lot of friction in the cables and thus a very firm lever squeeze is required to stop. I just about had it with these brakes.

Any recommendations. Im thinking other, better cables but what kind?
You may need to adjust the pads inward. A “mushy lever” is typical of the pads being too far away from the rotor. Disc brakes work best when the pad is just clearing the rotor. Automobiles just let them rub against the rotor but we don’t have the power for that. Look at the gap between the rotor and the pad. You should just be able to see daylight in that gap.

Your lever should also only move slightly before the pads engage. A mechanical disc that is set up like a rim brake...i.e. pads don’t engage until half lever throw...is always mushy and ineffective. Frankly, rim brakes have the same problem no matter what Saint Sheldon says.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Old 08-15-20, 07:57 AM
  #15  
Trevtassie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,936

Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Liked 1,154 Times in 640 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Thanks. KEB-SL is the housing that is in the PRO brake kit as well.

Did you have any issues with excessive stiffness. The housing I got from wiggle is VERY stiff and and a real faff to bend in shape for under the tape mount on a drop bar.

The PRO kit comes with two pieces of ordinary brake housing for those first few inches that has a tight radius, but im not sure how to replicate the splice between the the ordinary and compressionless housing, except for buying the kit. ??
Just get the Pro kit. One of the things with compressionless housing like the Pro is importance of using the right ferrules. With some ferrules the linear wires can be pushed through the hole the inner passes through if the shape of the inside end isn't right . So at least with the kit you know you are good to go. Oh yeah, the short flex sections aren't normal cable, no coating and has the joiner swaged on the end.
Trevtassie is offline  
Old 08-16-20, 02:03 AM
  #16  
Geekage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 191
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
The cable is as short as can be. The length in the package was barely enough. The bike has Tiagra road brifters and post mount calipers. Im not aware TRP makes any distinction between road or mtb.
Spyre are for road pull, Spyke are for linear pull.
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Possibly better pads would help*, but even getting the pads to touch the disc feels unusually stiff.
I've found that the return spring on the Spyre is very strong. Pull the lever then let it snap back. If it actually does snap back loudly and forcefully, then the spring is certainly overcoming any friction in the housing.

There's a video on YouTube where the person shows how to cut down the springs so they're not as strong. I did that with mine and lubed the internals while it was apart, and I'm so much happier with it. It was just the front since I have rim brakes on the back and the difference in spring return between the front and rear was drastic before I cut down the Spyre spring, now they're much better balanced.
Geekage is offline  
Old 08-16-20, 04:55 AM
  #17  
dsaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 712 Post(s)
Liked 793 Times in 471 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Thanks. KEB-SL is the housing that is in the PRO brake kit as well.

Did you have any issues with excessive stiffness. The housing I got from wiggle is VERY stiff and and a real faff to bend in shape for under the tape mount on a drop bar.

The PRO kit comes with two pieces of ordinary brake housing for those first few inches that has a tight radius, but im not sure how to replicate the splice between the the ordinary and compressionless housing, except for buying the kit. ??
It is stiffer than regular spiral wound housing, but not so stiff that I can't form it to the bars with some electrical tape before wrapping the bars. I have not felt the need for the flexible sections that come with the kit, but I have found that I need to install it with no ferrule on the brake lever end for some brands of shifters.
dsaul is offline  
Old 08-16-20, 05:21 AM
  #18  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,224
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked 316 Times in 214 Posts
Thanks all. Very helpful. Ill give the pro kit a go. Modifying the spring looks interesting if somewhat involved. It is true tho, the spring is very stiff, for no apparent reason. TRP should rethink their strategy. Mandating proper compression free housing at the OEM level and a softer spring would go a long way saving the end user from a lot of frustration.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-16-20, 08:12 PM
  #19  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,274

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4251 Post(s)
Liked 3,864 Times in 2,578 Posts
I would go with Jagwire Elite Link kit and update the stock pads (KooStop or SwissStop) and possibly rotor especially if it is the stock TRP rotor. That will give you better braking. The Pro Kit is also fine with the same upgrades but the Elite Link is probably your best as those "beads" (as my co-worker and friend calls them) won't compress and the inner liner is slick and the cable is super polished and smooth so it will amp up the brake performance.

Yeah TRP should mandate better stuff but then again all the manufacturers should stop being so cheap and use better parts especially in the case of cables and housing for Fox (with Kashima coating) sake.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 08-16-20, 08:30 PM
  #20  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,092 Times in 2,325 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Thanks all. Very helpful. Ill give the pro kit a go. Modifying the spring looks interesting if somewhat involved. It is true tho, the spring is very stiff, for no apparent reason. TRP should rethink their strategy. Mandating proper compression free housing at the OEM level and a softer spring would go a long way saving the end user from a lot of frustration.
I don’t have Spyres but I do have Spykes on a couple of bikes. The Spyres are just Spykes with a different arm on them. I’ve never found any problem with them. I don’t find them to have a particularly strong or weak spring. I don’t run compressionless housing nor do I feel the need. I don’t run compressionless housing on any of my disc brakes and never felt that the brakes didn’t work properly.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
Yeah TRP should mandate better stuff but then again all the manufacturers should stop being so cheap and use better parts especially in the case of cables and housing for Fox (with Kashima coating) sake.
It’s not the manufacturer being cheap, it’s the consumer. Paul Klampers are better brakes than TRP but I doubt most people would pay twice as much for them. I have 3 of them (1 pair on a bike and one bike with a disc front). Great brakes but I can’t really say they work 2 times better than the TRPs I have.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Old 08-16-20, 09:11 PM
  #21  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,274

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4251 Post(s)
Liked 3,864 Times in 2,578 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
It’s not the manufacturer being cheap, it’s the consumer. Paul Klampers are better brakes than TRP but I doubt most people would pay twice as much for them. I have 3 of them (1 pair on a bike and one bike with a disc front). Great brakes but I can’t really say they work 2 times better than the TRPs I have.
I haven't used Paul Klampers though I do love Paul, in fact I am wearing a MiniMoto shirt right now and spent way too much buying Paul stuff for a new-ish 26" rim brake mountain bike like some cave person. However I can say with good housing and cables the Spyres are really excellent and I find better than my old BB7s but likely Paul and all his wisdom and CNC prowess designed something better than those at least.

I doubt they would pay twice as much and I doubt Paul could do such massive OEM orders without compromising something (not that he is incapable of greatness and expansion) but certainly the OEMs could upgrade the cables and housing without too much cost increase.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 08-16-20, 09:17 PM
  #22  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
Pac rim ships most bikes you buy, to US west coast ports..the components are collected from there ans assembled there

Buy a Bike Built in Europe and you might get more EU/UK components if your're willing to spend up..


In the up charge up grade; get machined aluminum bead and barrel segmented housing.. low compression and flexible..





.....

Last edited by fietsbob; 08-16-20 at 09:21 PM.
fietsbob is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.