Carlton Franco Suisse Frame
03-03-09, 01:05 PM
#1
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Carlton Franco Suisse Frame
It appears to be almost stock. The bars and stem are GB, the handlebars are Cresta. Brakes are GB 66 Coureur model.
The crankset is a Williams. The big ring is a 58 tooth! They cranks spin really nice. The bottom bracket has an oiler port.
Shifter braze on and cable guides are on the bike. The front derailleur is a clamp on campy plunger type that appears to be modified to take the big chainring or maybe its bent but it operates freely.
The frame is being cleaned up. Its looking good one decal is cracked and almost gone but the other remains in tact.
The wheelset is a Weinman tubular with Campy high flange "no record" hubs. They spin true and free but need repacking.
The headset works well but I fear the wedge and stem are stuck inside the fork. The seatpost is not stuck! The Brooks seat looks like it needs to be oiled and brought back to life.
It appears that lugs aren't so elaborate. Are these the early days of investment cast?
https://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4978/0002813.jpg
The crankset is a Williams. The big ring is a 58 tooth! They cranks spin really nice. The bottom bracket has an oiler port.
Shifter braze on and cable guides are on the bike. The front derailleur is a clamp on campy plunger type that appears to be modified to take the big chainring or maybe its bent but it operates freely.
The frame is being cleaned up. Its looking good one decal is cracked and almost gone but the other remains in tact.
The wheelset is a Weinman tubular with Campy high flange "no record" hubs. They spin true and free but need repacking.
The headset works well but I fear the wedge and stem are stuck inside the fork. The seatpost is not stuck! The Brooks seat looks like it needs to be oiled and brought back to life.
It appears that lugs aren't so elaborate. Are these the early days of investment cast?
https://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4978/0002813.jpg
03-03-09, 01:26 PM
#2
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Sweet: here's mine, about a 63 I think (with the racks); got as a frame only on ebay so parts not original, and some other images I've saved. I'd guess that one is original. I have a Carlton Flyer frame with the same lugs.
Braze on shiftlever posts were a Carlton feature for some time. There's a guy on the CR list that remade the decals...
Braze on shiftlever posts were a Carlton feature for some time. There's a guy on the CR list that remade the decals...
03-03-09, 01:40 PM
#3
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I'm sure those lugs were not investment cast (although the 'technology " to have done such was nothing new: Lost wax casting was used in jewelry for many decades if not centuries before that Carlton's lugs were made) Nice Bike!
03-03-09, 01:51 PM
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Cast lugs have been used for many decades, but the investment casting I believe you're referring to (i.e. microfusione) only started in the mid-1970's (with Masi in particular). Most manufactirers that made ornate models also made very simple ones, often including a fillet-brazed model or models, too. Usually, there were semi-fancy models in between. Carlton at one time made very ornate lugs that were hand cut. To cut down on the labor this entailed, Carlton developed their well-known proprietary "Capella" lugs, which made their famous oddball appearance on a bunch of models (from Team Pros to Super Courses) circa 1973. Less work in those lugs, but still cool and distinctive. Those Franco Suisse lugs are not ornate for sure, but I think they're still very attractive and provide plenty of style.
08-05-20, 12:21 PM
#5
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
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Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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Looks like I may be joining your club, if you'll let me in. 
I started a Carlton thread on C&V and posted one pic.
More info. forthcoming after I get the bike.
I started a Carlton thread on C&V and posted one pic.
More info. forthcoming after I get the bike.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
08-05-20, 12:51 PM
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The first investment cast lugs for cycle frames were produced in 1973 by ROTO (Rampinelli).
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The first investment cast lugs for cycle frames were produced in 1973 by ROTO (Rampinelli).
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Last edited by juvela; 08-05-20 at 12:53 PM. Reason: image
12-23-20, 05:06 PM
#7
feros ferio
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Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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Brought the Franco Suisse home -- Christmas present from my sister-in-law, who had not ridden it in a long time.
Interesting mix of parts:
suspect original: Brooks Swallow saddle, Campag. downtube shifters and front derailleur, Weinmann Vainqueur 999 centerpull brakeset
aftermarket: SunTour V-GT rear derailleur and 14-34T SunTour 5-speed freewheel, Sugino Mighty Compe 144mm BCD 52-47
?: Lambert high flange hubs with no-name 27" rims, drilled for Schrader (boo)
Current plan: buy fairly wide Presta-drilled 700C rims, new stainless steel spokes 3X pattern
re-gear, maybe ultra-6 speed in back
nice-looking blue-over-chrome paint job; chrome forks and stays in decent shape; double-butted Reynolds 531
It seems to fit me almost perfectly (elbow against saddle nose, fingertips touching back of handlebar), and I have never had a good English bike, just a couple of Armstrong / Hercules 3-speeds modified to 9- or 12-speed hybrids with the Cyclo conversion kits.
Interesting mix of parts:
suspect original: Brooks Swallow saddle, Campag. downtube shifters and front derailleur, Weinmann Vainqueur 999 centerpull brakeset
aftermarket: SunTour V-GT rear derailleur and 14-34T SunTour 5-speed freewheel, Sugino Mighty Compe 144mm BCD 52-47
?: Lambert high flange hubs with no-name 27" rims, drilled for Schrader (boo)
Current plan: buy fairly wide Presta-drilled 700C rims, new stainless steel spokes 3X pattern
re-gear, maybe ultra-6 speed in back
nice-looking blue-over-chrome paint job; chrome forks and stays in decent shape; double-butted Reynolds 531
It seems to fit me almost perfectly (elbow against saddle nose, fingertips touching back of handlebar), and I have never had a good English bike, just a couple of Armstrong / Hercules 3-speeds modified to 9- or 12-speed hybrids with the Cyclo conversion kits.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
12-24-20, 07:28 PM
#8
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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According to one of the Carlton club websites, my (left dropout stamped) Kxxxx serial number = 1962, so a 1963 serial number would start with an L. Over time Raleigh serial numbers were phased in, even when the Carlton marque was still being produced. The Franco Suisse was reportedly the last Carlton-designed Carlton, so we can take shared pride in that.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
12-25-20, 12:44 AM
#9
Senior Member
According to one of the Carlton club websites, my (left dropout stamped) Kxxxx serial number = 1962, so a 1963 serial number would start with an L. Over time Raleigh serial numbers were phased in, even when the Carlton marque was still being produced. The Franco Suisse was reportedly the last Carlton-designed Carlton, so we can take shared pride in that.
12-25-20, 06:55 AM
#10
feros ferio
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Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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Why do you say that the Franco-Suisse was the last Carlton-designed Carlton? From reading Peter Kohler's articles I was left with the impression that Raleigh ownership led to more of a changing of branding on the bikes that were exported to North America. Even the model names "Super Course" & "International" are all from the pre-purchase era catalog along with the font used in the graphics. We joke that buying a '70s Carlton-built Raleigh is a good way to get a bike from the '50s, but that humor is based partly in truth. The bikes that Carlton built for Huffy are the same situation - Carlton model, Carlton's cursive script, with Huffy badges. Those lugs should be indicative of what factory built that bike.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
12-25-20, 08:16 AM
#11
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
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I am looking for a head badge for my Carlton, and I notice most other Carltons used two screws in a horizontal orientation, as did Capo and many other marques. The head badge holes on mine are in a vertical orientation, about like those of the Huffy you showed above.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
