tcarl

I've been riding Continental tubulars on the rural farm roads in Illinois for years. No troubles. Great ride. I've had about 20 years of successes with Tufo gluing tape and Flat Attack brand sealant. On the finely crushed gravel Katy Trail I've used cyclocross tubulars (mostly Tufo, but a few other brands also). Wonderful ride, basically never get flats. I'm one of those who'll vote for using tubulars for recreational riding.

Miele Man

I can easily carry two spare tubular tires under my saddle. I use spare toe-straps to attach them to the saddle rails.

My CO2 inflator head allows me to put as little or ass much air into a tube as I want to. It's trigger operated. I haven't use it in a while though.

Cheers

Miele Man

That's not true at all.

I don't race and I do glue my own tubular tires to my wheels. I like the way my tubular wheels feel when I'm accelerating or going up hill. They simply feel superior to my clincher wheels. I enjoy riding my bicycle with tubular wheels because it feels so much more efficient.

Cheers

Road Fan

Thanks for adding your experience! I didn’t know that about CO2!

kcblair

Hello All. Question, can I use larger tubulars on rims with a OD of 18mm and 20mm. ? I"m currently using 21-22mm tubulars now. They are okay, but if i can go up a size, that would be nice.Thanks. KB

79pmooney

Or ... you ride in shady areas and want to know for sure you can flat and get out of there. 5 minute tire change guaranteed if you get your gluing right. And you don't have to change it. You can ride out of any neighborhood on the flatted tire every time. You can also do surefire changes in rain the dark, in snow, drunk ... or any combination of these and it will get you home for sure.

Ben

79pmooney

Thanks! I"ve been riding G+ clinchers and been fantasizing going tubular on those tires. Those Merlin prices? Bargain!

Ben

speedevil 

I have a Lezyne CO2 head that screws onto 16g cartridges, I think 25g cartridge threads also work. Not pricey, about $25. You open a valve and can control the amount of CO2 you release into the tube. I wouldn't count on using it a week later with the same cartridge, but it should be fine for a second inflation in the same day. You can put a little pressure in the tube before reassembling the tube and tire, then go to full pressure.

Road Fan

To me, that's all the justification a person needs!

63rickert

You can definitely go up a size. There is a limit. I used to run 26-27mm tires on Araya ADX-1 rims that were just a bit smaller than 19mm and never had a problem. But I worried about it. Not good to ride worried. What is your 18mm rim? Might be time to retire that.

Road Fan

I've read the opinion elsewhere that it doesn't matter, but I've never seen an engineering argument, much less any measurement or testing, that it truly does make a difference, and what is it, why is it, and under what conditions does it matter?

I have a "back project" to make some really cheep tubular touring wheels: steel-center hubs with large aluminum flanges, 36 hole drillings, wide (wider than track rims) Nisi rims, and 27 or wider tubulars. I'd use stainless butted spokes, but beyond that the spokes are "whatever". With 120 mm OLD, the wheels will go on my 1967 PX-10 ("Rando Cheapo"), with as wide a 2x5 range as I can. These Nisis are if I recall 18 mm wide and will need nipple washers. One of my philosophies with this bike is "Good Bones." If a design solution has intuitive benefit and doesn't affect any of the other goals significantly, do it. One example is that I share the intuition that a wider rim is better for a wider tubular. Looking out for some 30 or 32 mm road tubulars. Overall the parts will be as light as possible in keeping with the DB 531 frame with French diameter tubes. I'll take a vintage liberty using a Brooks Swift or Selle Anatomica saddle using lightweight frames - leather saddle comes down from 520 grams to around 410 grams.

masi61

Velocity “Major Tom” tubular rims have the same 23 mm width as their A23 clincher rim & might suit your needs. These come up on clearance or on-sale in odd anodized colors if you look around. The machined sidewalls, the wider width with a trough and the triangular semi aero cross section should make for a strong, stable base for some wider tubulars,

63rickert

Engineering analyses? For bicycles?

I don't recall the 18mm Nisi. Check that measurement. Could be. A rim that narrow is basically not as strong as a wider one, and if a flat rim I'd be leery. By same token a tall rim is stronger.

The engineering theory, if it deserves that honorific, is that a wider tire has more leverage on the glue. How would you test that? The CX guys are the ones who push the envelope really hard. The top quality tires do all fit a bit on loose side and when pressure is down to 12psi there is nothing but glue holding the tire on. Also the tire has lots of leverage and lots of pull because they flop over to side completely. The CX guys are not going to chance it with obsolete narrow rims. If the CX guys do lose a tire it wouldn't amount to usable data anyway, gluing is as subjective as it gets.

I can't prove a thing but for own comfort and peace of mind prefer wider rims. I use real old rims and they tend to be wider.

Sy Reene

There goes the weight advantage (albeit not on the wheel)

mackgoo

Answered above.

kcblair

It's a, barely used Mavic Cosmic. Just rebuilt the hubs, and it's 8-10 speed. My older Fir, are only 7 speed, and those where rebuilt a few years back. So, I can live with the 22mm tubs on those wheel set for the moment . Both sets have new tubs. After I wear those out, done with tubs. KB

Road Fan

If weight is your motivation, that's important. But for some the motivation is the ride experience, or to do more difficult things because they are harder, or both concepts together.

Road Fan

I've seen some pretty good analyses for trail, stability, gearing, tire pressure and other things. Frank Berto, Jim Papadopoulos, Jobst Brandt, older stuff like Archibald Sharp, more recent collections by David Wilson.

Not sure it's an engineering theory but what you say is a nice common-sense idea at least. And yes, rims with a shallow cross-section are not as radially strong as a deeper rim, but especially when spoked and built into a properly tensioned wheel, are they critically weaker in the context of road riding without cross-riding, off-road, criteriums, or aggressive dirt-roads? It's not enough to just to say "it's weaker." Are Nisi rims substandard?
I'll have to to check those old Nisi rims I have and see what the numbers are. I thought some were 18, but, it was a while ago that I checked.

Talk about the real old rims you use.

bruce19

IMO....if you are a recreational rider, tubulars are not worth the hassle. Particularly when tubeless is available.

63rickert

I think you just cited the exceptions that prove the rule. And even in the short list of good guys there's the one who was wildly erratic.

Nisi rims are not substandard. They are tops. They turned down orders rather than lower quality. The point remains that larger section rims are just stronger and wider works in that direction just as much as taller does. Real narrow rims were an aberration from the 80s that make as little sense as tires of 17 or 20mm.

The weakness that matters in rims comes from erratic extrusions. Cut up a failed rim - failed rims used to be very common and there are still examples - and put your calipers on wall thickness. The variation will surprise you.

The old rims I am using currently are Fiamme Red from the 50s and Araya 16B from right about 1960. Also have some Scheerens in occasional use and there's no way to know if they are 1936 or 1966. Everyone knows Fiamme from 70s and 80s and that's not the same animal. Araya has always been fantastic quality. Basic way to make a uniform extrusion is to do it slowly. Back in 50s those who made race parts were making them for their children, their club, maybe themselves. So they did it right. In 70s the boom and bust Americans demanded vast quantities of everything and then next year didn't pick up the phone. So they got the slop. Quality standards went out the window in the bike boom and mostly they never came back. Expectations were altered permanently. It only takes minutes working on a rim in the stand to realize the old rim is plain different. Rides different too. Araya 16B has been unaltered for over 60 years and those are always good.

Nice commonsense ideas go a long way. Seldom applied.

Frank Berto passed last week. RIP

Road Fan

How wide are the older rims?

This is pretty far from the original poster's idea so I'll just say thanks for your views!

Road Fan

How wide are the older rims?

This is pretty far from the original poster's idea so I'll just say thanks for your views!

63rickert

Fiamme @21.1mm.
Araya @ 20.5
Scheeren @22.3

Final decimal not guaranteed.

aclinjury

if you gotta ask this question on here, just stay the hell away from tubs, they're not for you lol

Road Fan

Interesting! I just measured two Nisi, and they were about 19.6 mm. A pair of Mavic Montlhery were both about 18.8, and a Mavic GP-4 measured about 19.8.

Sorry, just spot-checks with a digital caliper. I'm pretty sure the pair of Mavics were late 1960s or early 1970s. No real idea of the production years of Mavic rims. I guess the Nisi rims are mid-1960s, since their markings are similar to those on my old Rossignoli which had a lot of 1960s parts. The GP-4 was mid to late 1980s, I guess.