Single spoke comes loose on new bike, how should I proceed?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 2,673
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1221 Post(s)
Liked 628 Times
in
472 Posts
Single spoke comes loose on new bike, how should I proceed?
Hey all, I was wondering how to approach my LBS about this. Checked spoke tension on rear wheel other day and spokes seemed not as taught as they should be (just by hand).
Took it in and LBS trued wheel, it was a little out. Next day felt a wobble after riding, one single spoke was very loose. I retightend just by hand then a half turn with a wrench, spoke felt like they others. Did a ride and spoke is loose again.
Maybe 1,100 miles on this new bike. 180lb rider. Wheel rim is 28h WTB ST i23 TCS. 14g stainless spokes. Gravel bike.
Should I insist they use a tension gauge? I checked the rim by eye for cracks didn't see any. Should I ask for a replacement wheel? Should I let them fix it again and expect it to stay?
Thanks for any input!
Took it in and LBS trued wheel, it was a little out. Next day felt a wobble after riding, one single spoke was very loose. I retightend just by hand then a half turn with a wrench, spoke felt like they others. Did a ride and spoke is loose again.
Maybe 1,100 miles on this new bike. 180lb rider. Wheel rim is 28h WTB ST i23 TCS. 14g stainless spokes. Gravel bike.
Should I insist they use a tension gauge? I checked the rim by eye for cracks didn't see any. Should I ask for a replacement wheel? Should I let them fix it again and expect it to stay?
Thanks for any input!
#2
Really Old Senior Member
Keep taking it back until it's right.
Let them know in a nice way that you don't want to have to keep messing with it.
Let them figure out what they have to do.
Don't mess with it yourself. They don't know what you are doing and possibly you don't either.
Let them know in a nice way that you don't want to have to keep messing with it.
Let them figure out what they have to do.
Don't mess with it yourself. They don't know what you are doing and possibly you don't either.
Likes For Bill Kapaun:
#3
Constant tinkerer
New bike wheels should checked before the bike is sold (but often aren't). Since they failed at that, and failed again even when they knew there was a problem, I don't think the third time will be the charm with them...
In my opinion your paths to success are getting the wheel trued by a competent mechanic or learning to do it yourself. Otherwise, you will definitely have problems later. 1100 miles on a wheel with severely under-tensioned spokes means you may have already significantly reduced the fatigue life and will have problems no matter what you do, short of re-building the wheel from scratch with fresh spokes.
In my opinion your paths to success are getting the wheel trued by a competent mechanic or learning to do it yourself. Otherwise, you will definitely have problems later. 1100 miles on a wheel with severely under-tensioned spokes means you may have already significantly reduced the fatigue life and will have problems no matter what you do, short of re-building the wheel from scratch with fresh spokes.
Likes For FastJake:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 4,260
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 817 Times
in
617 Posts
Agree with FJ; the wheel may be toast and the dealer is at fault. Assuming they have a competent wheel builder, they should rebuild (hopefully with new spokes, but at least loosen all spokes and "rebuild").
#5
Really Old Senior Member
It may be that 28 spokes is inadequate for your weight & riding style?
IF you mash low gears, think about how 1/2 the spokes are trying to "unwind".
Assuming it's a NDS spoke, it may actually get "slack" if there isn't enough tension, allowing the nipple to unscrew a bit. Repeat.....
It may be that simple "proper" (higher) tension may prevent this. They also make Spoke Prep which is a mild thread locker. I use linseed oil when building wheels.
IF you mash low gears, think about how 1/2 the spokes are trying to "unwind".
Assuming it's a NDS spoke, it may actually get "slack" if there isn't enough tension, allowing the nipple to unscrew a bit. Repeat.....
It may be that simple "proper" (higher) tension may prevent this. They also make Spoke Prep which is a mild thread locker. I use linseed oil when building wheels.
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 2,673
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1221 Post(s)
Liked 628 Times
in
472 Posts
Thanks all for the quick replies! Yes I will be insistent that they check tension when retruing again. I talked to one of the mechanics he said they'll use some kind of spoke specific thread locker this time. I have trued up a wheel myself before but am an absolute novice, that's why I will get it tight enough to keep the wheel truish and limp home.
I didn't want to dish on my LBS they're very cooperative so far. This is the second problem, the first was a creaky BB (pressfit of course) and they quickly fixed it perfectly no questions, hasn't made a noise since.
Thanks Bill for the remark on 28h vs maybe 32h. I'm 180 but have maybe 15lbs of extra stuff on the bike at times, do ride a large amount of gravel, and do stand up to mash and stretch out often on my rides (often 30 miles but I do 60 alot and 100+ often).
I didn't want to dish on my LBS they're very cooperative so far. This is the second problem, the first was a creaky BB (pressfit of course) and they quickly fixed it perfectly no questions, hasn't made a noise since.
Thanks Bill for the remark on 28h vs maybe 32h. I'm 180 but have maybe 15lbs of extra stuff on the bike at times, do ride a large amount of gravel, and do stand up to mash and stretch out often on my rides (often 30 miles but I do 60 alot and 100+ often).
#7
Constant tinkerer
All I can say is good luck, I guess. Have the front wheel looked at too, preferably by someone not at that shop. It's likely just as bad as the rear but you'll see problems on the rear first.
Likes For FastJake:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,899
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2602 Post(s)
Liked 1,925 Times
in
1,208 Posts
Not every bicycle mechanic knows how to build or fix wheels. Sounds like the wrench at your shop doesn't, unfortunately. So here's one more vote for "find another shop." If you've got friends who cycle, ask them who in your area knows their stuff. If not, it's time to buy "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt, a truing stand, spoke wrench, and possibly a tensiometer (if you're at all musical, you can do it by pitch -- see https://www.sheldonbrown.com/spoke-pitch.html for details). This is a good way to spend a long, rainy weekend, but you'll learn a lot in the process.
#9
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,499
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4346 Post(s)
Liked 3,981 Times
in
2,661 Posts
A lot of folks doing the usual speculating that the shop is at fault with very little knowledge. We know the bike has a significant amount of mileage for a "new" bike we know it 28 spokes on a WTB rim and it has been tensioned before but we don't know if the wheel was handbuilt or machine built and how bad the riding has been, it is off road with some standing up on the pedals. I am curious to know the full story from all different sides.
However I would take the wheel back to the shop and see if their head mechanic can take a look. You might look at a 32h wheel at the back or if you are stuck on 28 then go with a good wheel builder and quality parts.
However I would take the wheel back to the shop and see if their head mechanic can take a look. You might look at a 32h wheel at the back or if you are stuck on 28 then go with a good wheel builder and quality parts.
#10
Constant tinkerer
A lot of folks doing the usual speculating that the shop is at fault with very little knowledge. We know the bike has a significant amount of mileage for a "new" bike we know it 28 spokes on a WTB rim and it has been tensioned before but we don't know if the wheel was handbuilt or machine built and how bad the riding has been, it is off road with some standing up on the pedals. I am curious to know the full story from all different sides.
That's a pretty beefy rim, 556g for 700c. For rough terrain I'm a believer in a lighter rim and more like 32-36 spokes, but this wheel should be entirely appropriate for a 180lb person.
#11
Senior Member
If someone is experiencing tension loss, I'd certainly first check for total tension and tension evenness, but there's nothing wrong with a belt and suspenders.
That said, many shops don't do the best assembly checking on new builds, and some definitely don't really check tension or true on disc wheels if it doesn't effect their rideability. Still more true the wheels to a reasonable tolerance, but aren't balancing tension or stress relieving. Depending on price point I think it's appropriate to at least stress relieve the wheel, bring the wheel to true, and balance spoke tension to a reasonable degree, but I don't think at all price points it's appropriate to expect the same care to getting maximum tension as you would on a handbuilt wheel, or to have tension balance down to %10 or abouts.
OP, the shop really should sort this out. A reasonable test is to see how even the pitch of the spokes is on the same side of a wheel--should ideally be within a semitone (or much smaller, I probably aim for about 30 cents in most cases), but if it's off more than a perfect fourth then it either needs real attention or the rim is bent. The wheel should be true to within about a mm, generally speaking, though on a disc wheel tension balance is more important than extremely precise true. Given the amount of time, this really shouldn't require a new wheel.
Last edited by cpach; 05-21-20 at 04:20 PM.
#12
Really Old Senior Member
I wouldn't take this as a bad sign. I assure you I build very good wheels--right at the rated rim maximum tension, typically <%10 variation, <.5mm tolerance, spoke line set and stress relieved, etc. I build with appropriate lubrication and, yes, a tiny dab of DT spoke freeze on each spoke. You cannot predict the use conditions of a wheel--nipples will not rattle loose if the spokes don't go slack, which they shouldn't, but wheels may momentarily undergo forces that exeed their design intentions, and the odds of the spoke loosing tension permanently are offset with a small amount of mild thread locker, which if appropriately chosen and applied does not adversely effect the wheel's ability to be trued in the future (which also shouldn't really need doing on a regular basis).......
#13
Senior Member
The thread lock is very much secondary to good lube and a quality build.
#14
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,499
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4346 Post(s)
Liked 3,981 Times
in
2,661 Posts
No need to speculate. A spoke going floppy loose one day after "truing" by the LBS? That's embarrassingly bad. Unless the OP hit something hard enough to leave a huge dent in the rim.
That's a pretty beefy rim, 556g for 700c. For rough terrain I'm a believer in a lighter rim and more like 32-36 spokes, but this wheel should be entirely appropriate for a 180lb person.
That's a pretty beefy rim, 556g for 700c. For rough terrain I'm a believer in a lighter rim and more like 32-36 spokes, but this wheel should be entirely appropriate for a 180lb person.
A wheel is a system and using the wrong components in that system will not hold well especially if assembled poorly. Going after the shop because we heard one story doesn't do any good unless we know something more. The wheel has been ridden that we know and we know small bits but we really don't have the full story.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
How can that spoke not be loose?
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,504
Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 35 Times
in
30 Posts
Request a complete thorough true.
1. Balance tension on each side of wheel - variance of no more than 2 reading indicators on a Park Tool tensionmeter.
2. 100 - 110 KGF front disc side and rear drive side final tension...
3. While still properly dished..
THIS AFTER A FINAL STRESS RELIEVE CYCLE
(super hard squeezs of parallel pairs of spokes for a full rotation of the wheel).
=8-|
1. Balance tension on each side of wheel - variance of no more than 2 reading indicators on a Park Tool tensionmeter.
2. 100 - 110 KGF front disc side and rear drive side final tension...
3. While still properly dished..
THIS AFTER A FINAL STRESS RELIEVE CYCLE
(super hard squeezs of parallel pairs of spokes for a full rotation of the wheel).
=8-|
__________________
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,504
Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 35 Times
in
30 Posts
I wouldn't take this as a bad sign. I assure you I build very good wheels--right at the rated rim maximum tension, typically <%10 variation, <.5mm tolerance, spoke line set and stress relieved, etc. I build with appropriate lubrication and, yes, a tiny dab of DT spoke freeze on each spoke. You cannot predict the use conditions of a wheel--nipples will not rattle loose if the spokes don't go slack, which they shouldn't, but wheels may momentarily undergo forces that exeed their design intentions, and the odds of the spoke loosing tension permanently are offset with a small amount of mild thread locker, which if appropriately chosen and applied does not adversely effect the wheel's ability to be trued in the future (which also shouldn't really need doing on a regular basis).
If someone is experiencing tension loss, I'd certainly first check for total tension and tension evenness, but there's nothing wrong with a belt and suspenders.
That said, many shops don't do the best assembly checking on new builds, and some definitely don't really check tension or true on disc wheels if it doesn't effect their rideability. Still more true the wheels to a reasonable tolerance, but aren't balancing tension or stress relieving. Depending on price point I think it's appropriate to at least stress relieve the wheel, bring the wheel to true, and balance spoke tension to a reasonable degree, but I don't think at all price points it's appropriate to expect the same care to getting maximum tension as you would on a handbuilt wheel, or to have tension balance down to %10 or abouts.
OP, the shop really should sort this out. A reasonable test is to see how even the pitch of the spokes is on the same side of a wheel--should ideally be within a semitone (or much smaller, I probably aim for about 30 cents in most cases), but if it's off more than a perfect fourth then it either needs real attention or the rim is bent. The wheel should be true to within about a mm, generally speaking, though on a disc wheel tension balance is more important than extremely precise true. Given the amount of time, this really shouldn't require a new wheel.
If someone is experiencing tension loss, I'd certainly first check for total tension and tension evenness, but there's nothing wrong with a belt and suspenders.
That said, many shops don't do the best assembly checking on new builds, and some definitely don't really check tension or true on disc wheels if it doesn't effect their rideability. Still more true the wheels to a reasonable tolerance, but aren't balancing tension or stress relieving. Depending on price point I think it's appropriate to at least stress relieve the wheel, bring the wheel to true, and balance spoke tension to a reasonable degree, but I don't think at all price points it's appropriate to expect the same care to getting maximum tension as you would on a handbuilt wheel, or to have tension balance down to %10 or abouts.
OP, the shop really should sort this out. A reasonable test is to see how even the pitch of the spokes is on the same side of a wheel--should ideally be within a semitone (or much smaller, I probably aim for about 30 cents in most cases), but if it's off more than a perfect fourth then it either needs real attention or the rim is bent. The wheel should be true to within about a mm, generally speaking, though on a disc wheel tension balance is more important than extremely precise true. Given the amount of time, this really shouldn't require a new wheel.
Simply spin the wheel - spokes that flare out are loose in comparison to the rest, spokes that flare in are on the tight side in comparison to others.
=8-|
__________________
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life