goodwin

It's interesting to note how this thread changed in topic so quickly, while keeping in mind that this is a bike forum.

OldNick

I agree. I hope that you do not feel "hijacked" and that there have been sufficient on topic replies to help you.

However, I reckon the topic has not gone quite astray (to use a pun) because dog/owner behaviour are important factors in taking a dog into public, where there are other dogs or people, especially when you are on a bike and cannot always be as in control as you _should_ be when you are walking.

DnA362's very comment was that they could not take their dog out, because people feared it. Whatver the arguments, this results in the need for tough control of the dog in public, either by total personality domination by way of "alphaism", or by leash.

OldNick

I have to disagree quite strongly.

Firstly, just about all dog behaviour wisdom says that a dog thinks that people are dogs. If it sees a person behaving in a way that it thinks another dog should not behave, within what it sees as its territory or protectorate, it will react as it would to a dog. Any dog that is aggresssive toward dogs will therefore be at risk of being aggressive toward humans. Ony extreme mental or physical control, or fear ("respect") of the humans because of their size and power, will help prevent this.

Secondly, with people and dogs so closely joined in society, aggression toward somebody else's dog causes interaction with humans. Many people have been bitten trying to stop dogfights.

And I am sorry, but again, your thumbnail really does not help, whatever else you may post. It displays the very image that you seem to be trying so hard to prevent. It is a fearsome picture.

cryptid01

This is the mountain bike forum. Nothing stays on topic here for long.

Portis

Only in the Mountain Bike Forum would you find people trying to find a way to bring dogs along on a ride. Most other cyclists spend their time trying to figure out how to get away from the little heathens. I for one, hate dogs when it comes to bikes.

It is a very dangerous notion to mix riding with dogs. Most cyclists and noncyclists would assume that a dog's bite is the biggest threat to a cyclist. However, I feel otherwise. A greater threat is the dog causing a crash. They do it every day. Last Summer we had a local cyclist wind up seriously hurt when a local county commissioner's dog charged and wrecked him on his road bike.

Think it won't happen with your dog? Think again. I remember hunting with my lab several years ago, when he nearly took my knees out. She was a sweet dog and we got along great. Sometimes she would get a bit wild when she started to scent birds. That is what happened one day, when she was running a bit out of control. She was running fast scenting on a trail coming directly at me. She was in her own world i guess, because i stepped into her path to get her to slow down. She never broke stride and hit me right in the legs at an estimated 10 to 15 mph. I was on my back in less than a second. I never imagined she would do that.

Think of what the consequences can be on a bike if your dog does something unpredictable. It can be very dangerous for not only you but any other riders in the area. Leave the damned dogs at home!

OldNick

And within reasonable limits, more power to it for that, I reckon. It raises community spirit and interest levels.

DnA362

The quote below is taken from https://www.workingpitbull.com
Im quite positive the author of that site and her book know a great deal more about dogs, APBT in particular than you. Please visit the site read some facts and then maybe we will be able to have a productive conversation about this subject. Im sorry my avatar bothers you, I will post the rest of that picture where he is playing w/ a 4 month old puppy to show that he is not the vicious killer he looks like when i get home. ( altho, being that we've gotten so far off topic this forum may not be the most appropriate place for it, feel free to PM if you care to continue)

"Almost all bulldogs posses a strongly developed gripping drive dating back to their use as hunter's and butcher's dogs and later as bull and bear baiting animals. The desire to hunt and grip large animals, or even to fight another dog has no relation to the desire to bite the owner or other humans. Powerful hunting, baiting and fighting dogs obviously had to be tractable enough to handle when they were highly aroused, and this is one reason why a sound pit bulldog is one of the safest of dogs around people and children - even when highly aroused. Why? Pit bulls (good ones) have an extremely well developed sense of distinction, meaning they distinguish quickly and accurately between prey and non-prey. A pit bull, fighting for its life in a pit, badly damaged, in shock and in severe pain, will rarely lash out at the human handlers within easy reach.

Games of tug-a-war, springpole, or other useful outlets for prey drive will not ever cause aggression problems in a sound pit bull. However, due to the recent fad cycle of popularity with the bull breeds, far too many people are producing pups with no concern for proper temperament. Far too many unsound and atypical pit bulls have been produced, resulting in tragic loss of human life when these dogs find their way into the hands of irresponsible owners. The beauty of a sound pit bull is that you don't have to make excuses for the dog - no "she doesn't like men" or "he was abused as a pup so he growls a little" or other nonsense. As long as people make excuses for poor temperament, and continue to produce unsound pups and place them with the public there will continue to be incidents which reflect (unfairly) on all bulldogs"

OldNick

Ok. I did not realise that Phoebe was a dog. I was assuming human. (???)

I was thrown by the clearing the throat bit.

I still maintain that many people have been attacked trying to stop dogs fighting.

OldNick

Hey! It doesn't _bother_ me!

I think I said it was questionable way to represent a dog that you are trying to show as a gentle dog. Posting nice pictures does not help afterward. Bears and tigers can be cute. Posting a nasty picture in an atmosphere that does not like the dog that you are displaying is like painting a target on yer bum!

OK. The personal bit is creeping in! "What do you know? Try reading the one place that supports what I want to read before you say anything."

Please note that until now I have _avoided commenting on *pitbulls*_! That is important.

I am sure I can find plenty of stuff written by people, who know more about dogs, that say they _are_ a problem. Even the site you quote says "Almost all bulldogs posses a strongly developed gripping drive dating back to their use as hunter's and butcher's dogs and later as bull and bear baiting animals. The desire to hunt and grip large animals, or even to fight another dog ........."

Remember, biting people is not the only problem. A "The desire to hunt and grip large animals, or even to fight another dog " is not a good thing. Making the excuse (and I throw this right back at your expert) that there are bad people out there who throw a bad light on the breed does not cut it. People are people. Many dogs have "bad" owners, or even sloppy breeders, and do not get nasty.

Let's start a gun debate. Or sot soften it, maybe a car. That's how I feel about a dog that can so easily slip over into trouble if not looked after just so.

Before we descend in to "your a dog NAZI", I am out of here. Sorry you need to defend your dog so much.

DnA362

BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID!!!

phoebeisis

OLDNICK-sorry I was unclear about Phoebe.
DNA-I just don't see any good reason to choose-buy-a pit over about 150 other breeds.My neighbor adopted a stray;I can see that.Buying a pitbull-no way.Not for me-and this thread is done for me also.Luck,Charlie

DnA362

To each their own.
I wouldn't want to own any other breed.
Probably a good thing there are so many different breeds available.

willtsmith_nwi

Dogs do not believe that humans are dogs. Dogs RELATE to people socially as if they were dogs because that is how nature tells them to socialize. This is why we get along so well with the canine species. Human and dog sociality is so similar.

Regarding aggression, if you remove the dogs need for aggression, they will not develop it. If you teach dogs that they get what they want by being calm, patient and docile, they will be calm patient and docile. It is all a matter of socialization. If you as a dog owner are an ******* and beat your dog and encourage them to be mean, they'll be mean. BTW, about the same thing goes (in general) for people.

Regarding Pit-Bulls in general ... They are what you make them. Don't get caught up with those people who claim there animal is a "darling" but just "wig out" occasionally. They have trained that animal to be agressive in certain circumstances. The goes into an aggression mode because someone inadvertantently triggers that trained behavior. If you train the animal to be calm and submissive at all times, they will not have any unconciuous triggers to agression.

willtsmith_nwi

If you're trying to eliminate all danger, you've chosen the wrong sport. I recommend rail trails for you.

Yes dogs do occasionally wander near wheels. You can train them not to by INTENTIONALLY bumping them when they do. The burnt hand teaches best.

astphard

Ok, I'm going to try and revive part of the original question on this thread. There's been some great advice on training dogs to run along the bike and being attentive to the dog's needs regarding speed, water, etc. But I've got some more basic questions.

How long are these bike rides?
How fast are you going?
Do you have them leashed or trained to run off-leash beside you?
Any breeds you would recommend (or recommend be avoided)? (By the way, I know to avoid the hound dogs and would prefer not restart the pitbull discussion.)

Too Rass Goat

Both of our dogs went with us on rides when they were younger. ALways off leash. They loved it. Both were extremely well trained and obedient before attempting riding with them. Once we took them out, the female (Aussie) naturally herded the back tire of the last bike in line. The male (lab/golden mix) wanted to be up front but never out of sight. A simple "heel up" command would bring him right back at my side and he already knew "right" and "left" from walking around town leashed or unleashed while heeling.

We only took them on rides where there were streams/ponds to jump in and never more than 10 miles. We had water for them even with streams available and food for a midway snack. The pace was always casual, if going for a long ride or a fast one, they stayed home.

A well trained, obedient, socialized dog will fit right into biking. How far and how fast...you need to determine that by a few trial rides with the dog. As said, pay attention to them and don't over do it.

Sadly, they are too old to ride now. Sierra (female) passed before Xmas at 13 and Durango is 14 and too arthritic to run, much less walk more than a few laps around the back yard. He still gets excited every time we load the bikes up though...I hate telling him no buddy, you can't go.