goldfinch

I am in Minneapolis for a while, unfortunately sans bikes so I feel a bit naked. The upside is all the wonderful bike shops with more choices than I usually encounter. Which, at my height of 4'11" is usually no choice at all.

Anyway, I went to a shop today that had a Salsa Vaya in the smallest size. I have been curious as to whether this bike would fit me, as a potential bike to take to areas that have ratty chipseal roads. I do not like my Madone on chipseal. Plus, it also could take some gravel. I easily could standover the Vaya. So, meets test number one. However, the stock seat post would not go down all the way to the height I needed. They put it as low as it would go and I rode on my tip toes. Ick. I asked if they had a shorter seat post to try but they didn't answer. I guess no answer is a no. Weird. I suppose if I am serious I will insist on a ride with an appropriate seat post.

The reach seemed fine, but it was somewhat difficult to tell with the too high seat. The handlebars were way too wide. I asked about exchanging the wide bars for narrow ones. They say no credit for the exchange, I would only get 10% off on the new bars and have to pay for the labor.

Other than the seat post issue, does this seem fair? I was rather surprised that they wanted to charge me labor for different bars and would not "buy back" the extra wide bars at least for some amount, given that they would be brand new.

Given the hugely wide handlebars I wondered if the crank arms would be too long for me. I asked how long they were and they didn't know. Huh? Couldn't they pull out their measuring tape?

BTW, the 2013 Vaya in red is beautiful.

Beachgrad05

Sounds to me like they are not very customer service friendly....I would think they would do more to make sure the bike FITS you....as the sale of the bike and the resulting "good will" from their efforts to fit you properly would be rewarded with good word of mouth to your friends...and probably you buying other things from them...etc...

I don't see how they don't see them being more accomodating to fit issues would result in MORE money in their pocket down the road.

indyfabz

What you can expect or what seems "fair" really isn't the linchpin. The business is free offer something at any price it sees fit. If you don't like what you are being offered or how you are being treated, you are free to go somewhere else if they won't meet your needs and/or demands. At least press them for answers to your question. The process is no different from, say choosing a cable TV provider. If you are speaking with ABC Cable Co. and ask them if the Gold Package includes HBO the IFC and they didn't answer, what would you do? I certainly wouldn't buy the package unless and until I know what I am being offered, whether it meets my needs and that I am willing to pay what they are willing to sell it to me for.

BTW...I believe the crank arm length often appears on the back side of atg least one of the crank arms.

Black wallnut 

I'd expect better customer service than that. My LBS gives a better deal on upgrades or changes to fit. For example when I bought my Secteur I needed a higher stem and they provided one at half price, installed, plus I kept the OEM one. Good thing because after a few months and many miles I switched back to the OEM stem. I would think that they should at least offer to sell you a cut down seat post.

You might consider going back in and asking to speak to the owner if you like the bike and they are the only dealer with one.

goldfinch

The illusion of choice. One cable provider. One Salsa dealer with a bike my size. I am wondering what is typical. I know nothing is required.

Good idea on looking at the crank arm. Thanks.

Stomper

You should survey other bike shops before you make a decision. There may be one that meets your needs.

goldfinch

They would cut down the seat post. I am not absolutely sure but the saleswoman gave me the impression that a free fit was thrown in. Given the bike costs $1400 before any modifications there should be a fitting.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I have a hard time imagining anyone that would fit on the smallest Vaya keeping the stock bars. Salsa is going cheap here by not providing appropriate bars for the size of the bike.

Acquaspin

There should be a fitting. That said maybe they're aware you're from out of town therefore not a regular customer. Not justifying their behavior but trying to think about some motivation behind their poor effort.

Seat post issue is a quick fix. You mentioned riding on your tiptoes so my guess is about couple inches at most that needs cutting. I'm surprised they did not have a shorter seatpost handy.

I guess there are already enough little issues you're writing about not making you comfortable there. If there are so many options in town i'd be exploring alternatives already.

Seattle Forrest

When I test rode my first nice road bike, the shop measured things on the CX bike I rode in on, and then changed the stem on the road bike to match the reach on the cross bike. And they put a different seatpost in for setback. They set the saddle height to be identical, too. Crank length and bar width was already correct for me. Basically, they wanted to sell a bike, and thought the chances of me wanting it would be better if it fit me properly on the test ride.

I didn't want to bring it back, of course I had to, but I took it home that night. They gave me a different (CF) set of handlebars at their price in exchange for the ones that came with the bike. Gave me the stem of my choice as a trade, and gave me credit for the saddle the bike came with, toward a nice one. I kept the post as a straight trade.

indyfabz

The cable company example wass just that; and example. Some people have options. For instance, I switched from Comcast to Verison FiOS. But that's not really the point. I don't understand why there sometimes seems to be a mystique about dealing with LBS. There was a thread in this forum a few weeks ago basically saying "My bike is not ready on time like my LBS said it would be. What should I do?" What do you do if you're dry cleaning is not ready as promised? You car?

Yo Spiff

When I bought my Bianchi, I wanted the Veloce triple in the trademark Celeste color. They had a triple in Yellow and were happy to swap out the components to the Celeste frame for me at no extra charge. Only problem (as far as the shop is concerned) is that I like the bike so much that 12 years later I have no desire to replace it.

bigfred 

By comparison: When a friend and I went to a Specialized demo day, they were swapping stems, saddles, posts and pedals to make sure everyone got as good a demo ride as possible. My friend, who was in the market for a new bike but not considering Specialized, ended up placing an order for 2013 that has since arrived.

I would expect slightly better customer service than it sounds like you received. Stem, bars and perhaps saddle should all be swap'able at the time of initial fitting for no charge, low charge, or deep discount. I can understand that they wouldn't want to cut a seatpost down for a test ride, but, am surprised that they didn't have a "take offs" box in back that they couldn't look in for a shorter post (or make one from). With regard to the crank arms, as already mentioned, look at the inside of the arms. It's usually indicated.

paisan

Gold,

The shop I work at routinely swaps out "like" items in different sizes for customers at little or no charge. It just depends on what the item is and the demand for the take off item. For example post/stem swaps are an easy thing to do, require almost no time labor wise and can be resold pretty easily regardless of size. Bars on the other hand require some time to swap and there generally isn't a steady demand for the sizes at the extremes or for bars with funky shapes. Because the bars on the Vaya are not regular road bars and have that funky sweep at the drops that particular shop may not want to get stuck sitting on a set of bars that they think they won't be able to sell. Especially if there isn't a big demand for that style bar with their customer base.
(edit: I got the cowbell bars that come with the Vaya confused with the woodchipper bars from the Fargo so the sweep isn't as bad as I first thought but the bars still have a non traditional sweep to them)

The good news for you is that Salsa is a QBP brand so any shop that has an account, which is almost every shop, can order you one. If that shop isn't meeting your expectations then make some calls and find one that will make the swaps for you. Another shop may even be more receptive to making the bar swaps if the bike is being built from the box because the cables haven't been sized and strung and the bars haven't been wrapped, so there's really only 1 extra step in the build.

Mark Stone

I agree. The thing is, an LBS doesn't make a whole lotta money on a sale - they make it when ppl come back for parts and maintenance. How a shop treats a customer during the initial purchase dictates how the customer views the store - helpful, or not? But people are people, they have good days and bad, and maybe the person you were talking to goldfinch was having an off day. I'm not short, but the opposite - very tall - and my bike shop bends over backwards for my needs. Therefore I've spent over a Billion Dollars there in the last few months. Well, maybe not a billion, but you see my point. A shop that helps and works with you keeps your business, a shop that won't swap drops without charging the full retail minus 10 measly % loses customers.

Do you have an email addy for them so I can shower them with "praise"?

goldfinch

Thanks for the info, this helps. It does look like Salsa isn't quite like Surly. Most bike shops in the area sell Surly but a number don't sell the Salsa. I didn't think about the fact that the bike shop might have been thinking that they would need to take the bike that they already built and redo the cables and rewrap bars, etc. I am not in a rush, they could order another bike and build it from a box. Or, another shop could order the bike. I previously liked this LBS a lot. I buy parts there when I am in Mpls so they get my money. They always have been generous with parts advice too.

I was helped by a woman who is almost as short as me. She let me ride her personal Pugsley with a Rohloff hub and customized to the max. So she was helpful but yet not helpful.

I think I may go back today and give things another shot with them. I'll insist on a different seatpost to try, they are a major repair shop so they should have a post. Then I will talk to them about ordering a bike that isn't already built and see if that would make a difference in the cost.

Thanks everyone for helping me get my head around this.

Still not sure if I am ready to buy. I also rode a mountain bike at another shop and loved it so I have that temptation as well. I am not going to get both; peace in the family would not allow that!

wannabeclyde

Not trying to pile on too much, everyone can just be having a bad day.

That being said, as someone who went in for a fitting yesterday on a 2012 closeout... swapped out multiple things to see what looked and felt better, and never once did the discussion of extra $ come up. It was just part of it, and this was a closeout, so it's not like I was paying MSRP and they swapped a $2 part.

There are 4 LBS that I went to for test rides... 3 of the 4 bent over backwards to win me over as a customer. The 4th one was similar to what you experienced "well, the bike computer is $59.99, and then $25 labor to install it... bottle cage is $15 + installation"... I was very polite and friendly, when I questioned what all is involved in the labor of installing a bottle cage, but I knew right then and there I wasn't purchasing anything from them.

I say support your LBS if they help to support you with their knowledge and experience... if it is nothing but a business transaction I'd purchase 90% from amazon.

paisan

Surly, Salsa, and All-City are all distributed by QBP so if a shop has one they can also get the others.

Another thing I thought of is that the bike you saw might not have the correct specced sized bars because it was an early 2013 model and the proper size bars might not have been available when they boxed it so they used a different size to get it shipped. This is actually a pretty common occurence at the end of seasons when the manufacturers are trying to clear out old parts stock, but it also sometimes happens at the very early stages of a new season if the new parts aren't available or there aren't enough available to meet orders. What I'm trying to say is that if you wait a few weeks you might see that a newly shipped bike has smaller sized bars on it.

StanSeven

People use the term "fitting" to mean all sorts of things. But most shops mean something very complex and time-consuming by that term and it takes 2-3 hours or so and certainly isn't part of a $1400 buy.